Maybe Star Wars is dead for people born in the 1970s?


Gen-X'ers, in other words, as this article describes:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/star-wars-is-dead-gen-xers-get-over-it/

Maybe the vocal dislike of this Sequel Trilogy is from those of my age group (in their late 40s and early 50s) that loved the OT and only liked the PT?

I would bet that those that love the Sequel Trilogy are Millennials and younger people, which would explain a few things, as those movies are primarily made for them.

Maybe we should let Disney kill the past, as it is the only way they'll make the most money from the new generation of young cinemagoers.

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Most of my buddies born in the 70s enjoyed the sequels, bar the last jedi , i suspect more people 40 and over watch star wars more than people under 30

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Except there are older people that liked the sequel trilogy, and younger people that didn't.

Disney already tried killing the past by de-canonizing the EU books and trashing the first six movies on social media, that didn't go over so well for them.

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"Disney already tried killing the past by de-canonizing the EU books and trashing the first six movies on social media, that didn't go over so well for them."

LOL, WHAT?!

Disney did not trash the original trilogy. Christ, they even went out of their way to be kind to the prequels. Everyone knows they stink and not a bad thing was said about it. Stop it, ya liar.

Why WOULDN'T they de-canonize they old books? They were about to make new movies! No one is going to box themselves in and be forced to follow old fan fiction. That is ridiculous that you people even expected that. Do you think Abrams, Johnson, and the rest of them were going to go back and read all those books, LOL?!

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Disney did not trash the original trilogy.


Yes they did, whether it was the mishandling of characters like Han and Luke, or retconning Palpatine's demise just to have Rey beat him instead of Anakin and Luke, or even using the Sequel Trilogy as political litmus tests so that they can call fans of the older movies "bigots", Disney disrespected the original trilogy AND prequel trilogy.
But when they saw that The Last Jedi made half the money that the Force Awakens did, and that the Sequel Trilogy merchandise wasn't selling, they did a 180 and pretended they always loved the previous two trilogies and that Rise of Skywalker was always planned to tie all 9 movies together.

Why WOULDN'T they de-canonize they old books? Do you think Abrams, Johnson, and the rest of them were going to go back and read all those books, LOL?!


Remember when Kathleenn Kennedy said “Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. we don’t have 800-page novels, we don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be. We go through a really normal development process that everybody else does.”

Yeah, she was wrong, there WAS IN FACT lots of books to help JJ and Johnson make the sequel trilogy. They didn't have to adapt every single page, just enough to satisfy the casual fans who wanted to see what happens next. Some of the fans who read the books may have acted salty that the movies wouldn't be 100% accurate to the books, but since when as that bothered Hollywood? As long as the same amount of care went into a proper Sequel Trilogy like there was with the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter movies, most fans would have been satisfied.

If KK and JJ and Johnson really cared about Star Wars, they would've done their research to ensure they gave the fans what they really wanted.

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They gave the fans exactly what we wanted. Great movie to wash the taste of the shit prequels from our mouths. The original characters were given their moments to shine, while the baton was handed off to a new generation of heroes. You didn't like it. That's great, we can all have an opinion, but quit pretending that you aren't in a teeny tiny minority of people who dislike the new films.

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teeny tiny minority of people who dislike the new films


Good one 😄

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I don't know if it's a "teeny minority", but it's a fact the sequels are received better than the prequels:

The Phantom Menace 52% & 50%
Attack of the Clones 65% (and that's generous) & 56%
Revenge of the Sith 80% & 66%

The Force Awakens 93% & 86%
The Last Jedi 90% & 42%
The Rise of Skywalker 51% & 86%

Metacritic:
Phantom 51 / 6.1
Clones 54 / 6.1
Sith 68 / 7.8
Average: 57 / 6.6

Awakens 80 / 6.7
Jedi 84 / 4.1
Skywalker 53 / 4.6
Average: 72 / 5.1

IMDB:
Phantom 6.6
Clones 6.5
Sith 7.5
Average: 6.8

Awakens 7.9
Jedi 7.0
Skywalker 6.6
Average: 7.1

MRQE:
Phantom 67
Clones 67
Sith 77
Average: 70

Awakens: 81
Jedi: 81
Skywalker: 63
Average: 75

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KUATORISES! Do you copy and paste those misleading figures every time this subject is mentioned? STOP SPREADING LIES!

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I don't think the words "misleading" and "lies" mean what you think they do.

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In any case, stop doing it. It really is IRRELEVANT.

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You spoke for an entire generation. You took your opinion and pondered why "most people don't like Star Wars anymore", but stomp your feet when I posted facts. And those facts being the sequels are better received than the prequels. You are a man-child and your arguments are meritless.

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Well rotten tomatoes and I think metacritic too have been known to delete user reviews for “reasons”, on top of the fact that people haven’t trusted movie critics (or any critic) for a long time now since they’re more about agendas than about quality and entertainment.

The last time people listened to legit movie critics was Siskel, Ebert, and Roper, and even then their words weren’t taken as gospel.

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You guys are all the same. "ThE ReVIeWs ARe LieS! Why can't you just say you don't like the movies? You gotta peddle these lies and conspiracy theories.

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Are you denying that review sites have deleted numerous user scores for certain movies, despite evidence showing they have?

Are you denying that mechanize for the prequel trilogy sold well while the sequel trilogy merchandise sold poorly, if at all?

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Reviews and ratings don't count, but merchandise sales do? BAHAHAHAH! Get out of my face with this nonsense. Fucking man-children.

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You talk like a child and you call us man-children?

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It’s good to show numbers and stats, but when the company publishing those numbers and stats has a reputation of acting shady, then you have to look into it more.

You can’t take everything at face value, especially not these days.

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You trying to imply Disney paid off critics?

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Disney specifically? It's possible, yes.
Are critics being bribed via exclusive/early access in return for favorable reviews? Very likely, yes.

Are review sites now deleting user scores for certain films in order to make those films look better? From what we've seen with Captain Marvel and Star Wars, yes. Even a streaming service like Netflix completely caved and got rid of the percentage scores after Amy Schumer complained her comedy show was supposedly being "review bombed".

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Then explain the critical reception for Rise of Skywalker, Solo, Live action Disney remakes such as Aladdin, Dumbo, Maleficent and Lion King. They forget to mail off the checks to the critics for those? Or could it be that you simply did not like the movie as much as they did?

Since when does a movie's box office return get affected by critical reception? Transformers films are panned but rake in tons of cash. Rise of Skywalker made good while Blade Runner 2049 or mad max fury road didn't come close to grossing what a lot of the transformers films did.

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Focus, I said only certain movies are most likely affected by bribed critics and rigged user scores, Captain Marvel and Star Wars being among them. Those movies are part of massively popular franchises and they push specific agendas, so they need to appear successful. Not all the MCU movies get that privilege just like not all Star Wars movies get that privilege (i.e. Solo).

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Neither Captain Marvel nor the Star Wars films push any agenda whatsoever. You and a few hundred other people *think* they do, and bitch and moan 24/7 at maximum volume about it, though when pressed to offer an example the best anyone comes up with is "the lead character is female," or "some of the actors aren't white."

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I've never seen anyone have a problem with Star Wars or Captain Marvel having a female lead or that certain characters weren't White.

MCU fans that disliked Captain Marvel are the same ones that liked Black Panther and WandaVision; have been asking for a Black Widow movie for quite a while; and want T'Challa to come back as the lead in Black Panther 2 despite Chadwick Boseman's death.
Star Wars fans that didn't like the sequels are the same fans that liked
strong female characters, canon and non-canon, like Leia, Padme, Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, Asohka Tano, Asajj Ventress, and Cara Dune who was supposed to have her own series; those same fans also liked black characters like Lando, Mace Windu, and even Finn who ended up being delegated to the black comic relief, much to the fans' disappointment.

The themes that Captain Marvel and the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy were pushing, among others, included false-victimhood, fourth-wave feminism, and in the Last Jedi's case, anti-capitalism in that one scene.

Sounds to me like you did piss-poor research this time, for a self-proclaimed "FilmBuff"

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Yeah I am calling BS on this. Captain Marvel has a decent critical score nothing amazing. It has an average score of 6.8 on Rottentomatoes. That is nothing compared to Mad Max Fury Road. Which has an average score of 8.6. Or even look at Blade Runner 2049 which has a 8.2 average score. Also once you factor in the audience/users scores Captain Marvel actually scores rather poorly. Solo was not the only Star Wars movie that got bad reception Rise of Skywalker got bad reception also. If both the audience/users and critics love a film there is a good chance you simply are the odd man out who simply does not like the film.

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You can call all the BS you want, and you can even bring in irrelevant movies to distract from the point if that makes you feel better 😄

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Lol ok you are dismissed. Way to side step every point I made.

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They are not misleading. They are figures that I looked up and then calculated the averages from the ratings from those websites which he is copying and pasting from a previous post from him and I somewhere in the SW boards. What people continue to fail to recognize is that the prequels and the sequels are not separated by some galactic disparity in views, just look at the averages.

The prequels are garbage and the sequels are too. The numbers from the "expert" sites show that the overall average of the sequels have been slightly better received so far by fans, but there isn't some great disparity, just look at the averages, they are close together. One is a turd and the other is a polished turd.

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There was pretty much near universal praise for TFA when it came out. Everyone knows it - the reviews are still there. These Lucas cultists/DiSnEy StAr WaRs types can't be reasoned with. They are just children throwing temper tantrums.

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Critics integrity has waned in the last 20 years, so hard to trust their evaluation. Ww84 was around 90% on RT until it got its release, and then it dropped to 60. That isn't a coincidence that the first wave of reviewers "loved" it, and them the rest of the world saw it and knew it was BS.

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"Reviews don't count" isn't a valid opinion.

Not to mention, I included fan scores.

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I never said reviews don't count, but to pretend their isn't review bias is also not a valid opinion.

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Review bias, hahahah! You Trumpers are insane.

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Ok douchebag, live in your fantasy world.

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You spelled facts wrong.

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Come on now, you said IDMB didn't count because it was all fanboys when I posted those numbers that you keep posting. 57 to 72 was a great disparity, but fan scores of 6.6 to 5.1 was not.

Metacritic:
Phantom 51 / 6.1
Clones 54 / 6.1
Sith 68 / 7.8
Average: 57 / 6.6

Awakens 80 / 6.7
Jedi 84 / 4.1
Skywalker 53 / 4.6
Average: 72 / 5.1

You're picking and choosing. It's obvious the fanbase is divided on the issue. Aren't the boards a reflections of that?

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I said IMDB didn't count? When?

I posted EVERY major review site score out there. That's the opposite of picking and choosing.

There IS significant difference between 57 and 72. 72 is a passing grade. Not only is 57 an F, it's significantly in F territory too. And my argument was never about "disparity" - that was YOUR thing. I have always said the sequels are better received, and in most places, they are.

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Wherever we first had this discussion. You called IMDB fanboys. You should be able to find it since you're copy and pasting what I posted.

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No, I think it's up to you to prove your argument. You show me where I said IMDB doesn't count.

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China became a Communist country in 1949 because Mao encouraged his young Red Guard to "kill the past."

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Full-blown Gen Xer here.

I kinda feel like the magic has been squeezed out of this franchise. I was excited for The Force Awakens and it was a fun movie. I loved Rogue One. Since then it's gone off a cliff and even The Mandarin isn't pumping up my interest.

I'll always have a special place in my heart for the original trilogy. I just don't have the same excitement any longer. I have seen Solo, The Last Jedi and Skywalker once. I have tried to watch them again and end up turning them off not even halfway. Maybe they can bring it back but I'm not exactly holding out hope.

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"I have seen Solo, The Last Jedi and Skywalker once. I have tried to watch them again and end up turning them off not even halfway."

I tried rewatching Last Jedi, but it was excruciating, and by the half-way point, after the stupid casino planet, I gave up.

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The Last Jedi was an abomination and was the straw that broke the camels back , could of been so much more but turned out to be some guys attempt to be the new George Lucas and make an edgy star wars film that turned out utter pants, lets not forget the exchange at the beginning of the movie between Hux and Poe " I have your mother on hold" " i believe he's tooling with you Sir" that scene right there i knew the movie was going to be pants.

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I remember seeing Last Jedi in the theater and when they got to the salt planet I realized I was looking at my watch wondering when it was going to end already. I've never done that before in a Star Wars movie.

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I found The Last Jedi to be far better the second time I watched it. It's an excellent film, if a less than effective followup to The Force Awakens.

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Now I KNOW I simply cannot take you seriously, FilmBuff, especially considering your handle.

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We disagree on this film, no doubt. Up to you how you want to take my opinions. I'm just a film buff, commentin' on the internet.

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I don't know anyone under 21 that is a Star Wars fan... so I guess the fanbase is from the 70/80s?

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Your insecurity is insane. Your certainly allowed to like and dislike whatever you want, but this obsession to scream at the top of your lungs how "hated" the sequels are is hilarious. Facts say otherwise:

The Phantom Menace 52% & 50%
Attack of the Clones 65% (and that's generous) & 56%
Revenge of the Sith 80% & 66%

The Force Awakens 93% & 86%
The Last Jedi 90% & 42%
The Rise of Skywalker 51% & 86%

Metacritic:
Phantom 51 / 6.1
Clones 54 / 6.1
Sith 68 / 7.8
Average: 57 / 6.6

Awakens 80 / 6.7
Jedi 84 / 4.1
Skywalker 53 / 4.6
Average: 72 / 5.1

IMDB:
Phantom 6.6
Clones 6.5
Sith 7.5
Average: 6.8

Awakens 7.9
Jedi 7.0
Skywalker 6.6
Average: 7.1

MRQE:
Phantom 67
Clones 67
Sith 77
Average: 70

Awakens: 81
Jedi: 81
Skywalker: 63
Average: 75

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And critic reviews mean fuck all to me, don't point those figures at me, Kuato.

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"tHE CriTics DOn't CoUnT!" *derp derp* Of course you ignore things that prove you wrong. Typical. Hahahahaha! The really funny part is I included fan scores too. Bahahahahaha!

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I know you included fan scores as well, which is what's especially fishy.

I mean, these RT figures here:

"The Force Awakens 93% & 86%
The Last Jedi 90% & 42%
The Rise of Skywalker 51% & 86%"

TFA I can understand, as it was popular with both critics and moviegoers as it was the first new Star Wars film in years.

But the figures are strange for TLJ, with critics apparently loving it but audiences divided? And it was known that critics have to give favourable ratings for early exclusives, unless they want to be excluded and risk their livelihoods? Come on, Kuato!

And TROS is the real kicker: All of a sudden, the critics are bashing a Disney Star Wars movie, and yet audiences love it? Precisely the same amount as they loved TFA? Seems EXTREMELY FISHY to me. What I heard was that Disney intervened and "persuaded" RT to lock the audience score to make it seem as if it had positive audience reception, which it DIDN'T.

Seriously, Kuato, you're foolish for believing such sites are absolute gospel truth.

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It's all fake! Fishy, LOL! Critics were paid off! Fan ratings? Those can't be real either! You sound like a nutter.

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Actually, there is a lot of speculation that Disney pumps their reviews. Why would that be so hard to believe? It would be had to believe they didn't! The company is worth $114.84 billion. You don't think they would do anything to protect their investment, especially when it trickles down to their amusement parks, toy lines, and streaming service?

I'd hire a ton of interns to create accounts and vote the heck out of it and all my movies. I'd buy bots to whip up generic reviews. I know companies that do this to pump up their own business on Glassdoor.com, including the one I currently work for.

Check this out for some interesting points about just this: https://youtu.be/RxaWE97QElI
https://youtu.be/J3SjoFQCE44

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"Shelia Aliens"

Sounds super official. I had to stop watching when the backbone or her argument was "people are using the same words, therefor these reviews are fake." This is your source? Your gotcha moment? Come on, man. This is tinfoil hat type stuff.

Not to mention, I've posted info from every major review site out there.

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Who says what is official? The proof/argument is still irrevocably valid.

FYI: These reviews in the videos pump into those sites you speak of.

It doesn't really matter though. It's all about what you and I think in the end, right? I thought it was the worst Star Wars film ever made. You didn't.

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No, what you, I, or anyone else "thinks" is irrelevant. Facts matter. And "People used the same words, so these are fake reviews" isn't valid. Millions of people use the words "saga" and "trilogy" to describe this franchise. Take off the tinfoil hat.

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Sounds good! I'll take off my tinfoil hat when you take off your blinders. Let's do it together.

Funny how you say what you and I think is irrelevant when you're so absolute in your thinking about facts and I prove evidence to the contrary.

Evidence supports facts. I provided evidence. You're avoiding the validity of the video's content (instead waving it off because it's not produced by some major news source) and going into uncivil language. It's a clear defense mechanism people do when they are losing an argument. Are you going to go into 'your mama' jokes next?

Here's another fact - companies pump reviews. As I mentioned, the company I work for does that. Google it - there are plenty of articles about companies pumping reviews for their products.

Here's a great article on how to spot fake reviews - it really does show validity to the videos (especially #2):
https://www.g2.com/articles/fake-reviews

I'm not saying some of those reviews aren't real. I'm saying there are some dubious reviews in there and have evidence to back that up. There is no evidence to prove they DID NOT use bots or pay people to post reviews.

I've read your other replies in this thread and you come off as boorish and insanely defensive about a product you have no vested interest in. You should try to have more decorum otherwise people won't really respect your posts. I'm actually trying here to have a civil debate with a fan.

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Me: Posts reviews and scores from every major site out there.

You: Take off the blinders!

HA!

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Seeing you get owned is great! Piss off with your trash taste.

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That's the thing with these Lucas zealots. They can't simply say they don't like the sequels, they have to pretend everyone else agrees with them. They are neckbeards who can't bring themselves to admit "The Maker" failed at something.

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They can't simply say they don't like the sequels

I don't like the sequels.

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I am thrilled for you.

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I think you're off-base on this. I watched the originals as a kid-- Star Wars came out on my 7th birthday-- and loved them, and grew up with them, as did most of my peers. We were all excited about the prequels, and were incredibly disappointed in how shitty they were. We were nervous about another trilogy, but for the most part, and of course with a handful of dissenting opinions, we loved The Force Awakens. It was on par with the first two films, and better than Return of the Jedi. The remaining two films of the new trilogy were entertaining, faaaar better than the prequels, but not on par with the original three, or TFA.

In my experience, the only people who don't admit that the prequels are shitty are those who grew up with them as we did with the original trilogy, and have a nostalgic attachment to them.

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"In my experience, the only people who don't admit that the prequels are shitty are those who grew up with them as we did with the original trilogy, and have a nostalgic attachment to them."

Overall, I think you are right. I think most prequel fans are people in their 20s who grew up on bad movies and are oblivious to it.

But the Lucas zealot type knows no age. They cling to the prequels and EU like the neckbeards that they are. These people have been at it since before the first movie was released. You can spot them a mile away. They can't help themselves from saying things like, "DiSnEY'S StAr WArs!"

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You've got me wrong, Kuato.

I don't actually like TPM nor AOTC, as they're both either childish or boring. Nor do I have them in my streaming collection (I refuse to buy physical media anymore).

I have ROTS in my streaming collection, as well as the current versions of the OT SEs on streaming. Do you know why? Because Lucas inserted so much PT stuff into the OT that a frame of reference was necessary, to PT stuff referenced in the OT. And basically because it's the most highly-regarded of the PT, even if it has many issues of its own, and to be honest, I quite like the Palpatine stuff in that one.

You'll probably say, "well, stick with the Despecialized Editions and you'll be OK".

But I won't be OK, because they're illegal unless you own a copy of the OT on DVD or other physical media.

And I refuse to have anything more to do with physical media.

So there you are.

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"You'll probably say, "well, stick with the Despecialized Editions and you'll be OK".

But I won't be OK, because they're illegal unless you own a copy of the OT on DVD or other physical media.

And I refuse to have anything more to do with physical media.

So there you are."

Are you aware of how you sound? That was the definition of a rant.

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So?

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No response?

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I think the brand is still obviously popular. Personally, I just don't find it interesting anymore. I loved Rogue One, thought Solo was entertaining, but disliked the sequels. I haven't watched The Mandelorian and probably won't until the series ends and don't plan on watching the Bad Batch. I think I'm just bored with the unoriginality of it all.

I don't need to know anymore about Kenobi and how he was not on Tatooine or how he fought Vader a second time and nothing really happened, or more about the clone troopers, or Andor and his time as a rebel. I wish they would create something original not tied to the OT with entirely new characters far in the past or future. That being said, I am looking forward to the series about Palpatine and his Sith alchemy experiments between episodes 6 and 7.

I think I should add that there was a good story there with the prequels, but they are not good films. Lucas should have let someone else direct them. My largest gripe with the sequels are that the story is awful. They are well directed films, but terribly written.

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"I think the brand is still obviously popular. Personally, I just don't find it interesting anymore."

Same here. I'm a millenial, I love the OT, feel the PT had a decent story with a botched execution, and went from mildly enjoying the ST to disliking it by TLJ. Rogue One was okay and Solo was meh. The Mandolorian didn't hold my interest. No proposed projects from Lucasfilm interest me at all.

I'm not into hating the ST endlessly or telling people who like them that they're idiots. I say let people like what they like, even if I think the ST is pretty bad. I just don't care about new SW stuff. If I need a SW fix, I just watch the OT or the Clone Wars TV series. Even some of the old EU books are pretty entertaining, even if they are a mixed bag in terms of quality.

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