MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Do you think Abrams had a plan/vision?

Do you think Abrams had a plan/vision?

posted 7 years ago by Hans-Wilhelm (1372)
18 replies | jump to latest

For example, he had little hints as to Rey's past and lineage. We see the flashback for her screaming to the departing ship, implying she was left there, then later the saber calls to her and she gets all of these visions when she touches it. I'm not aware of a saber ever calling anyone before.

So, do you think Abrams had something already in mind for her destiny or that he had no idea and was just setting up some interesting possibilities for someone else to take and run with?

If he had some ideas and to where everything to lead, do you think it is still salvageable? "Oh, by the way your parents were junk dealers, you're a nobody, the saber just liked you for some reason" is where Johnson has left it, if Abrams has something else in mind can it still be brought to pass?

Not just with Rey but everything overall?

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Just like his show Lost he knows how it ends prior to it beginning. It's the journey which is the interesting part.

He knows Star Wars died with The Phantom Menace and so at the very end of the next movie it will be him standing up at a theatre during the ending credits to Revenge of the Sith and saying to Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kenendy - "I bet you we can't make a worse trilogy" and they both reply to him "You're on!"

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1372) 7 years ago

Star Wars died with Phantom? Perhaps, still these don't have to be bad. The characters of Rey and Kylo are interesting and I'm interested in that story arc. If they write it well and came up with good characters than their story would be worth seeing.

Having Rey being good at everything with no training needs to have a believable reason behind it. So far there is nothing. If it stays that way without an explanation being given than I'll be disappointed. The ingredients are there for a good story, they just have to write one. They already ruined Luke and Snoke for me. I hope they can salvage the Rey/Kylo plot.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Kylo is passable with enough of a back story. I think they've left Rey out for too long and won't be able to do anything with her that won't irk plenty of people.

Poe and Finn are empty shells now after The Last Jedi, husks of what potentially been a bromance to remember.

I think Rose is the only other character left and she hasn't garnered a following as a character.

I just hope all the actors walk away with futures, it isn't their faults that this has gone pear shaped.

[–] Keelai (36065) 7 years ago

"Just like his show Lost he knows how it ends prior to it beginning."

Abrams already admitted on the Howard Stern show that he had no answers to the many questions and mysteries on Lost because he expected the show to be cancelled during the first season. In other words, he made it up as it went along.

The same with the trilogy since he made it clear that he didn't want to do episodes 8 & 9. My guess is that Disney offered him a lot of money to return after the Johnson hatchet job. Notice how they didn't have Johnson do Episode 9.

[–] lordbishop34 (1442) 7 years ago

I think he had ideas of where it was going, then Johnson came along..now he needs to piece it together again. I am not sure he will be able to do that. No credible villain, boring hero, nothing exciting to look forward to in the last film.

[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

He's made the claim that he had an outline for Episodes 8 and 9.

Some of it could be salvageable. For example, Kylo's claim about Rey's parents could easily have been a lie meant to bring her over to his side.

After TLJ, it's become a huge longshot that he can do anything to retcon Rey's Mary Sueness into something plausible.

Nothing about the original trio can be salvaged. They were never reunited, not even for a brief moment and as a secondary storyline. Carrie Fisher is gone. Han died pitifully. Luke's character was completely destroyed before he died pitifully.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

If he did, why didn't they follow it? Did they just throw good ideas away for the fun of it? And why is it that he made part VII that required part VIII to explain how we got to this point in the story from part VI?

He had nothing. All the interesting 'mysteries' exist simply as blanks to be filled in at a later date. Who are Rey's parents, who is Snoke... if he had interesting and satisfying explanation for these he/Ryan would have used them. This is why TLJ is such a mess - because it is hard to fill in the blanks so somebody else's story whilst trying to tell your own.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

Who are Rey's parents, who is Snoke...

And again, Rey's parentage was the only mystery.

Snoke's backstory was actually given before TFA came out, and they've stuck with it: He's a new threat from outside the known galaxy. The Imperial remnants came across him when they went into hiding in those distant regions, and he molded them into the First Order.

There's just no reason to give out such anticlimactic information in the movies. It's side info.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Repeating bullshit doesn't make it fact.

"Snoke's backstory was actually given before TFA came out, and they've stuck with it: He's a new threat from outside the known galaxy."

That's not a backstory. That is barely even a sentence and one that wasn't even uttered in the actual movie.

"There's just no reason to give out such anticlimactic information in the movies. It's side info."

This is circular logic: "This origin story I've written is so boring I'm going to cut it from the movie and this is ok because who wants a boring story line in a movie?"

Do you share your login details Frog because I can't understand how you can be so rational about TLJ and Interstellar yet be so deluded when it comes to TFA. It's not even like it's a rough diamond - it's a cynical hackjob that has no redeeming features.

I mean, why do you think JJ left these things out? Why did he essentially make part VIII and not part VII? Even if you liked TFA do you think it's a good story? Or is it just a fragment of a story, the 'middle', that needs a good beginning and a good ending (written by somebody else!) to make it work?

He didn't leave these things out because he had some great ideas, to improve running time, to create suspense, he left them out for one reason and one reason only: to cover for the fact that TFA was a reboot not a sequel. Snoke *is* the emperor. The First Order *is* the Empire. Rey's parents are Annikin and Schmo Skywalker.

Look, I get it, after TFA we were all hoping the story was going somewhere, that things has been written this way for a *reason*. Now we know that isn't true: it's all just bullshit, made up at the spur of the moment. I mean FFS the original writer to VII was fired because he was taking too long so they got JJA in to make a Star Film *quickly*, just to get it out of the door, start earning back the $4 BILLION dollars invested in it. So he did what plenty of people do when they've put off doing their homework: He copied it from somebody else!

[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

So much anger over a character that has no specific detailed backstory... EXACTLY LIKE YODA. Yes, Snoke is a tall, evil Yoda.

Oh snap, I just destroyed your inane, whiny bullshit rant with one comparison.

I don't need word vomit to make a point like you do.

I think you take these meaningless fantasy movies WAY too seriously and you need to grow up. You can really be a petulant little brat.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Ha! Accuses me of being angry and childish, goes on TO SHOUT IN CAPS and hurl meaningless insults.

If it's a meaningless fantasy movie why do you get so wound up about it?

And you know that's a bullshit comparison. I know you do. That's why you're getting petulant: it's a childlike reaction to being unable to admit you're wrong. Now let me make it real simple for you (warning lots of words coming up!): Yoda's purpose in the story was to give Luke some training so it doesn't matter particularly who he is. While Snoke, amongst other things, rescued the Empire from apparent defeat (off screen - somehow), seduced Kylo Ren to the Dark Side (off screen - somehow) and built the galaxies most powerful ever super weapon (off screen - somehow). He is responsible for destroying the hero's endeavours of the first trilogy and for their subsequent deaths and *all* we know about the guy is he has a nice line in gold lamé bathrobes.

So instead of hurling insults why don't you calm down and actually answer my question. *Why* did JJA leave these plot gaps...? They would seem to be fertile story telling opportunities would they not?

And another thing - have you seen Infinity War yet? I was never a big marvel fan but take a look at how well they've written Thanos. They took a ridiculous, shitty looking, mess of a character and turned him into a brilliantly compelling villain. And why/how did they do that? Because they actually seem to give a shit about the source material!

[–] Keelai (36065) 7 years ago

"And again, Rey's parentage was the only mystery."

Plenty of undeveloped characters, storylines that go nowhere, plotholes and contradictions.

A 5 hour negative critique of Last Jedi. 5 hours! It's in 3 parts and worth a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw7pcCj0ORk

[–] Forbesanton (0) 7 years ago

[deleted]

[–] darkpast (9020) 7 years ago

i think he had a vague plan for Rey and Kylo but nothing else.

[–] TandyMan (11327) 7 years ago

I think he has a plan. I very much expect his 3rd film to be a direct sequel to TFA and completely ignore anything done in TLJ. I think he has a plan for Kylo & Rey. I don't think he ever cared about Snoke or Rey's parents or any of that crap.

[–] TristanReloaded (449) 7 years ago

JJ never has a real plan for his mistery boxes except for them to be filled with dangling old carrots.

If he ever had a rough plan for this trilogy - which would contradict facts, statements and history - his drafts would have essentially been the plots of Empire and Jedi with the old names replaced by the new ones.

[–] furiousstyles (4392) 7 years ago

I think he had something in mind, people knock him but overall he set up some very intreasting questions and intreasting plots for the sequels to explore on , unfortunately , Rian Johnson chose to shoot those down and leave us with very little to explore for the Episode 9, I mean its pretty obvious whats going to happen in Episode 9, rey becomes supreme jedi after killing rey and starts new jedi academy.