Guys, i am from Greece and have never visited the U.S. but i have a quick question about a fact in the movie that shocked me. Is this police behaviour usual? Would they ever behave to people like that even after a fight has broken? Apart from the shot, the fact that they punched and held them there without even having witnessed what happened is absolutely beyond me.
sharePolice here in the USA are *beep* for the most part. They have this *beep* military mentality like they're soldiers or something-- instead of public servants who are supposed to help people and keep the peace-- and the populace is the enemy. They're also still largely a bunch of racists. Seriously, either they can't do jack *beep* for you and are completely worthless on every level, or they're making your life miserable-- there's really no middle ground.
shareamerica is a police state
shareYou forgot to add "in movies" to your wild accusations.
Most are reasonable, non-racist, men and women and when they make mistakes it's blown so out of proportion that they have to lose their jobs and contemplate suicide.
Have fun believing the news and internet.
You've got to be kidding me. I don't know what la la land you live in but the police here in the US are notoriously bad, the New York Pricks and Dicks especially. Every cop i've dealt with seems to always have a case of small man syndrome coupled with a horrible sense of entitlement and a holier than thou attitude. I have absolutely no problem with cops, i believe in enforcing the law, I just don't believe in the wild overexertion of power these people seem to think they have the right to.
That idea aint' worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on.
Assuming that cops are a seperate species of human is just so ignorant as can be. People that interact with them are just as much *beep* so no wonder cop violence increases. You're just biased because you are on the other side.
[url=]http://www.psmag.com/politics/impact-body-mounted-cameras-cops-criminals-65158/[/url]
This is just not true. A lot of cops are a-holes.
I'll start believing in good cops when they start speaking out against the bad ones.
This is just not true. A lot of cops are a-holes.
Its 50/50. There are cops who are dickheads and the other half are good. From my experience I've met good cops. I've been stopped by cops before: Once because they thought I was the person they were searching for, I cooperated and when they realized I wasnt the guy, they apologized to me..The other, I was stopped by an a-hole cop to question me but his partner was cool and he let me go..
I'll start believing in good cops when they start speaking out against the bad ones.
But what about the good cops who arrest criminals and prove them guilty? Why people dont give cops credit for that?
You should be concern about the safety of yourself and family in the street, especially when gangbangers do drive-bys and bullets fly out claiming innocent people/children. When the police want answers to the incident that might help them catch the bad guys, nobody helps, nobody talks because they're either afraid or too proud to "snitch", so how can people believe in good cops??
shareViolent crime in America is a lot lower than the media would have you believe, and it's the lowest it's ever been here. With that said however, incarcerations are way up as is police violence. America is quickly becoming a police state. This country is ruled by privatized prisons and barbaric police officers.
This is a nation for the cops, by the cops and of the cops. And I say that even though my favorite cousin is a police officer (she's one of the good ones though).
Oh and by the way, the quota thing is real.
Joseph Chastainme
www.notwithoutreason.com my film
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1. That's very racist.
2. Mike Brown stopped when they told him to and put his hands up.
Joseph Chastainme
www.notwithoutreason.com my film
[deleted]
Amerika IS a police state. The Soviet State of Amerika. Been that way for awhile.
shareI'll start believing in good cops when they start speaking out against the bad ones.
wow. that sentence made me think man. i know police in the US act bad, real bad. even worse than wats in this movie. but, imma "its grey" sorta person, nothins ever black & white, so i do believe they can't all be rotten apples. there must be some good/well-intentioned cops out there, hell i've even seen videos online of US police doing a stellar job (e.g. managin to disarm drunk/crazy people without using guns).
BUT, that sentence is SO true. why do you never (ok, rarely) hear of police misconduct from the mouths of other cops? they must see that *beep* all the time. hear colleagues boastin bout it even. yet they back each other up like they family. the only cops i've ever heard speak ill of their colleagues left their job due to peer pressure or got fired. its like you can't be a police and truly work for the people at the same time.
so, my question now is: who the *beep* are they meant to be protecting and serving?
Get ur *beep* sorted out america. this ain't right. wher i'm from, popo don't even have guns, there hasnt been a mass shooting in like 20 years, and people aren't dropping like flies from gun violence. just sayin.
Corrupt officers are thick as thieves and have each others backs, they take as kindly to "snitches" of their own kind as convicts do inside the penitentiary. The good officers are often intimidated, black-balled or otherwise manipulated into "keeping their mouths shut" about the misconducts they witness. The "misconducts" go unchecked and apprehended, and those committing them are convinced that they are above the law and untouchable.
If a rotten, wicked person is given a pass to do whatever they'd like without consequences (a badge and the backing of all their brothers in blue) what's there to stop them?
So you think increasing violence on the people is justice? You're stupid. What if I kicked you in the head for something you said that I didn't like, is that justifiable? Another idiot who think cops only treat criminals badly. Let me guess, you still live with your mother as she babies and pamper you.
State champ in martial arts, trained with firearms, I eFF'n dare you!
Most police join to protect and serve the public. I like police. I speak with them and seek their support. Most are reasonable and no more racist than the public they serve. That said, few police lose their jobs for unjustified assaults and shootings. Most police live in a environment focused on and surrounded by crime and violence. As previously mentioned, many police are former combat veterans of war. These experiences often warp their perceptions of the public. I recently saw a video of gang of police officers in NJ brutally attack then sic their dogs on a unarmed young white man who had committed no crime. I've experienced and seen many other instances of unjustified police violence. Yes. The behavior of police witnessed in this film is real and not particularly unusual in certain jurisdictions.
Police are not victims. They have a great and challenging responsibility in which they often fall short. Police are human. The environment and culture they work in often leads to behaviors and mind sets contrary to their goal to protect and serve.
"Most are reasonable, non-racist, men and when they make mistakes it's blown so out of proportion that they have to lose their jobs and contemplate suicide."
Are you kidding? First of all, MOST are reasonable and non-racist is simply not good enough. They should ALL be reasonable and non-racist. If ANY unreasonable and racist people are put to work, then something is seriously wrong with the screening process. Second, under no circumstances should police be making the kind of mistakes that put innocent people in harms way. Especially if the police are the ones harming people, even more so if the harm they cause is fatal. Third, more often than not, they don't lose their jobs, instead they get suspended with pay, maybe a forced public apology, maybe some much need psychological evaluation, then when it all blows over they go back to work. The only times I ever see them get fired is when their crime was so blatant and over the top (not to mention caught on film) that there is no way they can spin it into something else. Even the real life cop (Johannes Mehserle) who murdered the real life Oscar Grant only did 11 months for shooting a subdued man in the back.
I have a cousin who's a Deputy Sheriff. Anorher cousin (3rd cousin) told me When he was a police officer in a small town (white town, he's also white) this old woman was driving too slow for him and he pulled her over, yelled at her, berated her and almost drew his gun when she had the gall to speak back to him when she should have just shut up and got out of his way in the first place.
However, I also have an Uncle (otherwise of family) who was a police officer for 35 years and never once got written up for anything was a fair and just officer with everyone.
Hotheads can become police officers, and so can anyone else. Even when a police officer is shown to not be an upstanding officer to the public, rarely is anything done about it. Which is sad.
Race plays role at times but not just by police but the public, as well. I read an article a couple of months ago where the writer showed a parallel: a white cop shoots an unarmed white woman and he was promptly fired, charched and in less than 10 hours convicted of aggravated manslaughter. A white police officer killed an unarmed black woman and it never made it past the Grand Jury, and the police officer transferred to another precinct. It happens more often than people may think.
There are a lot of good cops in the US but, in the end, even the good cops protect their own. It's a mentality, can't really blame them for it, I guess. It's how they're trained.
-Nam
Have fun believing the news and internet? Where the hell do you live? You probably never experience the bad side of a cop like I have. And don't accuse me of don't something that causes the situation. You do not live in the city I live in so you have no damn idea. The biggest drug dealer in my city was a brother of a cop, and the cop himself was also selling drugs and tipping off his brother. 4 of them are now in jail. Lets not mention the rape of a drunk girl by a cop in a sub station or the man who was found floating in a river that was last scene leaving a bar owned by cops. His murder was never solved.
Having fun believing your pathetic little liberal mind.
State champ in martial arts, trained with firearms, I eFF'n dare you!
Although there is some truth to what you said, what's wrong is the fact that all police officers are like that. Which is incorrect. There are good and bad cops just like how there are good and bad presidents, fedex workers, or tsa agents.You can say this about any job. Police officers are putting there lives in jeopardy (depending on the state they live in) every day.
share[deleted]
Police here in Greece is not much different. In fact many of them, if not most of them, are even worse than what you describe. I dont know where the original poster lives but if you ask any random person on the street and he doesnt agree he is either a liar, a white collar criminal, or a cop.
You think 22 is young? Think again, Greek cops see your 22 and raise you (or rather decrease you) 15.
Cops here killed in cold blood a defenseless 15 year old boy not too long ago.
In fact it was (ironically) December of 2008 too, but they were a little eager, couldnt wait for new years, so they killed him on the 6th of december
http://news247.gr/eidiseis/afieromata/tessera_xronia_apo_th_dolofonia_toy_aleksh_grhgoropoyloy.1524278.html
What the article says in short:
Police claim they were under attack , the officer in question says he fired 2 shots in the air as a defense measure.
Official report by the police department to the media was that one of the 2 shots fired in the air, ricochet of a lamp post, and then hit the boy.
What really happened is far more scarier and *beep* up.
The officers involved were in a police car when they bullied some teens to leave the area. The teens reacted and threw some bottles at the car. The 2 cops left the scene with the car, parked a few blocks away, returned to the place where the boys were,as they were approaching them, before reaching them, while from a safe distance, drew a gun and fired 2 shots straight ahead, as witnessed by many eye-witnesses. The boy fell dead on the ground, the cops then walked back to their car and left as if nothing had happened like some kind of gangsters. Citizens called the ambulance after hearing screams saying " They killed him, they killed him!"
Read here if you're interested
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/dec/13/athens-greece-riots
And i dont need to tell you that wasnt the first time something like this had happened. We're in the 2 digit count as far as police murders go
Greece is a failed state.
shareI am giving the benefit of doubt you didnt mean to involve the Military in your rant against Cops But I wanted to take this opportunity to explain a few things as I have worked BOTH sides:
1-Cops are not trained like the Military. Before a soldier(even the most common low level soldier-which I was) is allowed Live AMMO, 3 weeks of drills, 13 hrs a day, everyday are pounded into their heads on Trigger Discipline, stance, maintenance, ect. Until the Weapon(not a gun) becomes an extension of themselves. I am to understand that Marines do even more.....cops-two days average
2- once a Prisoner is detained, our weapons NEVER come out.
3-We do not Shoot unarmed combatants
4-we use the MINIMUM force necessary to accomplish the mission.
5- we do not confuse Tasers for firearms- mainly because we are a-not retarded and b-we dont use tasers because we are not pussies
6-soldiers are taught to aim low center mass. 2 shots in the ten ring. Cops are taught to empty their magazine(thats the clip that holds the bullets)
7- Cops are afraid all the time. Soldiers understand they are probably going to die in combat and make peace with it.
8-Every other soldier is your brother, regardless of color. Cops dont like black people.
BS. Most cops want to do good. Police killings are extremely rare, if majority of cops were how you described there would be a lot more people being killed by police. Stop being so blindly anti cop you stupid ass retard.
shareBS. Most cops want to do good. Police killings are extremely rare, if majority of cops were how you described there would be a lot more people being killed by police. Stop being soThis is so ironic, considering what you just said is completely false. Go look up the amount of people in the US that the police killed in the first half of this year alone. Then come back here and use the words "BS" and "retard" again as if you know what you're talking about in your ignorantly firm stance.
ban guns in America, simple. Maybe you will get more people who actually want to do their job and don't just become police to get a gun and start flexing.
share[deleted]
Yeah its hard to believe the cops were that heavy handed over a fight over New Years. There are many drunken fights on New Years Eve, so why did this particular fight attract so much police attention?? And why didnt they arrest the white guy anyway?
shareI remember when this happened, I also remember around the same time a video of a police officer smashing the face of a teenagers head into the boot if the car. The teenager was intellectually disabled and had done nothing wrong.
There are far too many occasions. Seems like anyone who wants to abuse power has a safe job with the police force.
Here is a little bit of background on how police in the US have become so aggressive in an interview of the author of the book "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces"
http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/police-militarization-an-interview-wi th-radley-balko
This is how I've seen all my life:
Some cops unnecessarily crosses the line, they abuse their power but there others who are cool. You greet to them, they greet back to you. The problem usually is that when people, especially criminal repeat-felony thugs, they challenge authority. They get out of control shouting F bombs, insults, resisting arrest and thats when things get out of hand, so cops feel its necessary to use physical or lethal force in the heat of the situation but can you blame them? Of course not, these cops are trying to do their job painless and simple. If you act like an animal, you will get treated like an animal, plain and simple.
People nowadays seem to have more respect for repeat felons over cops thats until an innocent loved one, like a child, is killed by a gang drive-by shooting. These same people cry, plead for justice but they wont snitch or rat and when cops get no support from the community, no justice is done and what happens? Cops, the law get blamed for "not" doing their jobs.
Pitiful society USA has been.
The people won't help the police because they've been trained from generations down that the police are not to be trusted. And they're constantly being proven right.
shareThank you for your link - just ordered the book and cannot wait to read it. It is truly frightening how our country's police force mindset has changed so drastically from the "To Protect and To Serve" to their viewing the public as the Enemy.
shareI am a white female, part of what used to be part of the middle class, 54, never been in trouble. BUT whenever I see a police car or cop I get an immediate negative feeling. Why? I'm intelligent, well-read, all of that, and yet a reaction I cannot explain. Yet the few times I needed help I called 911 without hesitation, and the responding officers were kind and helpful. But I still think this country, the USA, is a police state.
Human Rights: Know Them, Demand Them, Defend Them
There are a lot of good cops, there are a lot of bad cops.
The bad cops are usually the young (20s), inexperienced, straight-from-Afghanistan, gun addicted veterans who are still in "war mode" who view everybody as a potential threat because that is where their mind will forever be, unfortunately. I am from a military family, respect veterans, but a good 95% who return home are NOT normal even if they think they are. War is psychologically damaging and can manifest itself in different ways.
So, consider where many police forces are drawing their rank and file from (war veterans), couple that with inexperience, PTSD and a lot of young officers don't know how to react to certain situations and switch to solider mode versus cop mode.
There is a difference between being a cop and a soldier. Cops are supposed to assess situations and defuse them within the bounds of the law. This includes arrests if done properly. Soldiers are meant to kill first, ask questions later even if they are bound by rules of engagement. That's where the disconnect lies and that's why a lot of police forces are becoming more like armies and not in a good way as the article said.
Most cops want to help people (serve and protect), but there a lot of them who join because they get off on the power, are racist and love guns. It's the latter we often see more and more of in headlines like Fruitvale Station, Rodney King, etc.
I doubt the Greek police are much nicer, they just don't make movies about them. Due to economic instability and centralization of power in the government, most countries today are more or less in a state of marshal law. Seriously, if marshal law were formally declared the main difference would be the style of uniform
shareThe difference in Greece is that you will never see policemen hitting people without even having arrested them on New Years on the Metro for a fight that has broken. We ve had our share of police brutality but i was asking about the casual procedure that the policemen followed. That's what shocked me. That this seemed like casual procedure and i m pretty sure we would never know about this incident if the guy wasn't shot. BTW Greece is by no means in a state of marshal law, neither, from what i know, is the U.S....
sharePolice in the US can be aggressive and the behavior of the cops in this movie wasn't a big exaggeration. Specifically, cops tend to take issue with people "resisting." If they see you as resisting (which could be something as small as defensively moving your arm away if they reach towards it, or something legit like trying to run or fight) then it's common for them to double or triple up on you until you're handcuffed and totally immobilized. Knees on the head, standing on arms and legs, tazers fired, etc. It's a scenario a lot of the general public finds shocking when they see it and it's constantly leading to these cell-phone-recorded tazer type of incidents where the average joe believes its police brutality and the police believe it's justified force. It's definitely a recurring controversy in the US.
There's also a certain neighborhood dynamic to police behavior in US cities. Here in NYC, the cops working the more hectic, high-crime areas tend to be really vocal and direct and have no problem with a generous use of profanity. For street kids coming up in these neighborhoods, this is the side of police that they're used to seeing and feel like the cops are bullies and out to get them, while the cops are used to street kids being combative and dismissive and often disrespectful. The end result is a constant tug-of-war that no one really wins.
hold downs and stuff like that happen often from the fight.. And when people are rowdy and have been drinking.. they are going to react to being hold down like that. That's why the movie focused so much on drinking to paint the picture that Oscar's friends were drinking and maybe had a little too much. Also even Oscar who seemed sober most of the day even had a shot of liquor after he told his mom he hadn't drinked in a while. The cops reacted back to Oscar's friends..punched and threaten to take them to jail. Cops hate when you attempt to take their power and this happens often(not the shot of course) especially on holidays and busy events.
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My opinion on this comes from home.
I'm black/white/jap mix, but looking at me...i'm black. My father was a beat cop when I was a kid, then became a homicide detective. I have a perfectly clean record. I have four degrees from three universities. When I first moved to Los Angeles, California, I was pulled over, forced out of my car "a black cadillac sedan deville at the time", thrown on the ground, kicked, searched, and taken to jail...after spending a weekend in jail, I was told it wouldn't be on my record and they made a mistake, assuming me to be some murderer/drug dealer.
Take from that story what you would like.
I don't have police. I have many officer friends...but to act like the majority isn't racist and corrupt would be a lie...most of them in the bigger cities are...several of them have flat out said this to me off beat over drinks and lunch.