MovieChat Forums > Black Mirror (2011) Discussion > Am I missing the point of White Bear?

Am I missing the point of White Bear?

posted 10 years ago by xigne540
176 replies | jump to latest

I'm mixed about the episode and it bothered me to the point I felt sorry for Victoria. I realize she is a criminal and needs to be punished but what's the point of punishment if she can't remember it and there is no rehabilitation? Also, the calendar seemed to indicate that this would last for a month and then they move on to the next "attraction". This episode could have been a two parter to explain more of the back story and the point of the punishment on the prisoner. Or, maybe this is more about how society views punishment and this form of punishment satisfies their anger. If anything I think they should have just executed her because eventually they will screw her up more so than how she started.

I just felt kind of cheated. White Bear didn't give me enough information to sort out my feelings about Victoria or understand the real point of the punishment park. It all seemed unnecessary. I realize that I could say the same about other episodes leaving out important details but the other episodes were more entertainment for me. I guess White Bear hit a nerve.

[–] laymonite-2 9 years ago

I didn't feel sorry for Victoria.
If I got it right, she was a participant or actively allowed the torture and murder of her own young child.

This series is about the horror of technology/media/society.

It doesn't matter what you think - society is media driven and it wants blood, right or wrong and technology will deliver it.

Victoria's punishment is being tormented until she slowly realises what she's done? And it's not about her - it's about the audience being satisfied by the punishment in the media.

[–] Ringworm7 9 years ago

White Bear brought to mind the Casey Anthony case. If this form of punishment had been available for her, would Americans have watched? Hell yes. Not everyone, just enough to keep the show going.

Also reminds me of the media circus around the Susan Smith case. I lived near enough to have to drive past big crowds of angry people going to see her, yell at her. People like that scare me.

if White Bear is ever made into a movie, that mob with the cellphones and their kids would be scary as hell.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (4524359) 9 years ago

But it's our memories that makes us who we are. Without her memories of being Victoria she's basically not Victoria anymore. So they're not punishing the same person that tortured that little girl.

[–] CoachGilligan 9 years ago

That doesn't matter to them. The point is that VIctoria is being punished. They don't care if it is excessive or makes no sense or any other argument against it. The punishment isn't for her. It's for them. It makes them feel good to see her tortured.

Don't we feel like the deaf deserve better movies?

[–] Which_Tyler 9 years ago

Yep, vengeance, not justice.

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American money - In God We Trust
British banknotes - Charles Darwin

[–] Justincblount 9 years ago

But it's our memories that makes us who we are. Without her memories of being Victoria she's basically not Victoria anymore. So they're not punishing the same person that tortured that little girl.

Exactly. They are just torturing an innocent girl over and over. I didn't get the sense that the original victim was tortured for days and days. Maybe ONCE would have made sense, if she eventually remembered everything and was rehabilitated from "learning how it feels" or something. But doing it over and over is pure evil.

I heard somewhere that homophobes actually hate themselves because they have same sex attraction. So because they have "self control" to not act on their desires, they think no one else should be able to either. Maybe it's the same concept for the people who want to torture Victoria.

[–] mad_roke 9 years ago

I guess it's pretty much the Count of Monte Christo approach when it comes to revenge. It's not about "trying to let her make amends" or "putting her to justice". It's more about seeing her suffer as long as possible, before killing her. I'm pretty sure on the last day they'd even show her all the previous recordings of her punishments just to rub it in even more.

I don't know why, but I didn't feel bad for her once the twist came. Is it demented? Yes. Is it extreme? Yes. But I never felt like she was the victim then. It's kind of a very cruel, poetic sort of "justice" if you will.

[–] kimberleygd 8 years ago

Well, one of the main points for me was the bi-stander affect.In today's society so many people will stop and video a crime but not intervene to help, making them just as guilty as the perpetrator.

[–] Zzazza 9 years ago

Reading all these reactions really gives me a glum picture of the future. When I watched this episode, I thought this was something that would make even the harshest person see the dangers of turning justice into revenge. Even more so doing it in order to satisfy a bloodthirsty audience.I really hope it will never come to that.

[–] iMaximus_KB 9 years ago

It is rather discouraging that some people can't separate justice from excessive depravity and dehumanization. White Bear isn't one of my favorite episodes, but I think it's incredibly effective and certainly accomplishes what it sets out to do. It conveys the danger of a retributive justice system dictated by intense feelings of a society who seeks punishment and NOTHING ELSE. Some people would argue for a harsher retributive justice system, Black Mirror argues strongly against it. If this episode can't shift somebody's stance on the issue then I doubt anything will.

You don't have to be too worried though, there are plenty of sensible people who came away from the episode just as disturbed as you. ;)

[–] Psilio 9 years ago

I just wanted to say that it's a privilege to read threads like these, with well formulated and intelligent posts. I've only read about half of the first page, though (I have it set to 50 posts per page).

I've just discovered this brilliant series, but this episode left me stumped. I had no idea what I had just seen. Being from Norway I may have a different view on things, but this thread helped me understand what this episode was all about, and made me think a bit 'further', so thank you all.

It's rare to see so many insightful and civilized posts on the IMDb boards.

What we do in life echoes in eternity Russell Crowe as General Maximus in Gladiator (2000)

[–] Xumuon 9 years ago

I think you are supposed to feel sorry for her or at least it challenges you to.

To me the thing was an allegory on Myra Hindley, with the people making money out of her torture possibly the mass media and certain political figures, the audience and visitors would be readers of the Sun etc.

Would have been far more interesting if they had shown the images of the child being murdered, would you still feel sorry for her?

[–] Jim-1439 9 years ago

You're missing the point that point, like the plot, it inverted. "White Bear Justice Park" is an indictment of society on several levels.

[–] killahbillah1 9 years ago

I like this show, but this episode was annoying and cheesy.

So much god damn screamning and whining, blaah blaah. The one before this was also boring.

[–] Xumuon 9 years ago

You are boring, this show is the best TV i have seen since Game of Thrones last year.

And as techno dystopian shows go this episode was chilling. Facinating and disturbing.

[–] froghawk 9 years ago

I haven't read all 15 pages, so maybe someone has said this already - but it seemed to me that this episode was an extrapolation of the US prison system. Since the park is an amusement part, I think we can assume that people have to pay to enter even though it wasn't explicitly stated.

It's not uncommon in amusement parks to torture nonhuman animals for public amusement (see Sea World, unsavory zoos, etc). And in the US prison system, we profit massively on prisoners since there is a massive manufacturing industry in the prison system that makes things for the government/military and the private sector.

So why not combine the two? If you're willing to exploit prisoners for money and exploit other life forms for an audience in an amusement park, why not exploit a prisoner for public amusement (while making a nice commentary about people watching life through their phones)?

Of course, this is far from the only possible interpretation (especially since this is a British show and it's hard to say how aware Brooker is about the situation in America) and I've read plenty of other cool ones in this thread, which is part of what makes this show so great! Lots of food for thought.