MovieChat Forums > Black Mirror (2011) Discussion > Am I missing the point of White Bear?

Am I missing the point of White Bear?


I'm mixed about the episode and it bothered me to the point I felt sorry for Victoria. I realize she is a criminal and needs to be punished but what's the point of punishment if she can't remember it and there is no rehabilitation? Also, the calendar seemed to indicate that this would last for a month and then they move on to the next "attraction". This episode could have been a two parter to explain more of the back story and the point of the punishment on the prisoner. Or, maybe this is more about how society views punishment and this form of punishment satisfies their anger. If anything I think they should have just executed her because eventually they will screw her up more so than how she started.

I just felt kind of cheated. White Bear didn't give me enough information to sort out my feelings about Victoria or understand the real point of the punishment park. It all seemed unnecessary. I realize that I could say the same about other episodes leaving out important details but the other episodes were more entertainment for me. I guess White Bear hit a nerve.

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She does remember it at the end. The point is to torture her, instead of killing her as it's a far worse punishment than death. Yes, it is inhumane.

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You call it "torture" to put a guilty adult through a LESSER ordeal than the one she put an innocent six-year old girl through? Interesting.

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It's worse to torture someone than to simply kill them. If you think otherwise than you're very sheltered.

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It was called the White Bear Justice Park. Not a "rehabilitation" center.

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It's possible Victoria is in on the act as well, and is also acting. It wouldn't be too far fetched that the whole park is a sham. This makes the audience the ultimate victim or dupe, since if she was in on it, the camp only serves as an outlet for for the public's sick need for retributive justice. In this scenario, there would be a knowing class of people who maintain the behavior of voyeurism and detachment of the cultural masses, basically to placate them and keep them in control.

It reminds me of the Ursula K. Le Guin story, "The Ones who Walk Away from Omelas" -- the theme being you sacrifice 1 person to maintain order in society through the visible suffering of that person and the outlet it gives to others.

I personally like the idea that Victoria is also fabricating. This strikes me as even more insidious and clever than if she was just a sacrificial outlet of our base, dark desires. It would also add another shocking layer -- the we the viewers of Black Mirror are engaging in the same passive catharsis as the customers of the park.

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>It's possible Victoria is in on the act as well, and is also acting.

I didn't get that impression. The vitriol the crowd had for her is reminiscent of the societal disdain for people like Casey Anthony or Ethan Couch.

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...it bothered me to the point I felt sorry for Victoria. I realize she is a criminal and needs to be punished but what's the point of punishment if she can't remember it and there is no rehabilitation?


I think you just outlined the points of the episode, or at least what I thought were that points that it was making.

The fact that we feel so sorry for Victoria, even though she's a child murderer... it seems to be saying that even if someone has done something that heinous there's a point at which too much punishment isn't justice anymore, but sadism and cruelty. Even if someone does the worst thing in the world, is it o.k. to just keep hurting them back again & again? How much punishment/revenge/retaliation is over the top? How can we know when/if someone's ever learned their lesson, or won't do it again? How can anyone else really know or judge what's the perfect level of punishment for any other person's crimes? And if she can't remember what she did, is she still guilty?

It seems wrong to punish her since she can't remember it and there's no rehabilitation... Well, it seems awful to see someone being punished for something that they can't remember... but if Victoria can't remember what she did, isn't she still guilty? Not to mention, some criminals were pushed into the crimes they committed, and some are actually insane and had no idea what they were doing, or couldn't stop themselves. Some convicted murderers are children, and some people convicted to death / life sentences for crimes are even innocent - the criminal justice system is far from perfect. Also, people sentenced to death/life sentences - there's no chance of rehabilitation for them, but we punish them anyway, forever.

I liked this episode a lot, because instead of making direct statements, it asks a lot of questions -- about the legitimacy of the justice system, the way the media often treats criminals (shown on the show as the creepy people with cellphones and the people putting on the show), the way people feed off of watching others' punishment (think: in real life, people actually go to view hangings and watch people being fried in the electric chair... criminals used to be thrown into arenas to be killed by lions/gladiators...). Justice is often made into a very public spectacle.

Sorry for the super-long post. I saw the episode last night and I've been thinking about it ever since... :p

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I know I'm popping in here way late and most people don't care about this conversation anymore. So I'm going to try to limit my responses to one post so at least anyone curious won't have to read it in scattered places.

Also, the calendar seemed to indicate that this would last for a month and then they move on to the next "attraction".


To me, the calendar wasn't necessarily an indication that her punishment would end, so much as an indication that her punishment has already lasted at least 18 days, probably longer. The park is named after her case. I doubt they're going to use it for someone else. I mean, maybe, but I doubt it. At least not before their attendance drops.

This episode did cheat somewhat, considering Victoria was so evil but all of a sudden became so innocent just because her memory was erased. Not very likely.

I was uneasy about her lack of recognition, but again, this episode cheated. Anyone who participated in child abduction, torture, and murder, would not become a gentle person simply because they don't remember what they did. She would be ruthless, vicious, manipulative, not weepy and weak.


#1. Based on what we know of Stockholm Syndrome and other mental illnesses and disorders, I don't know that we can assume she was "evil" based on her crime. Did she do something horrifying? Yes. But it's not that much different from a building of bystanders who see a girl being raped in a courtyard and do nothing to stop it. Sure, they all believe that "someone" will do something, and she didn't have that convenient excuse. But without knowing more regarding Victoria's relationship, I don't think we can rule out the possibility that her defense was truth. He may have manipulated her and groomed her to get her to a point where she felt she had little choice.

#2. The thing to keep in mind is that she did not torture the little girl. She did not abduct the little girl. She was an accomplice in that she videotaped it all, but she did not actively do anything. And I think that plays out in her personality even with her memory wiped. She lacks volition. She never does anything to save herself until the very end with the shotgun. But she has to be pretty desperate to get to that point. Early on, when she has an opportunity to save someone else, she barely manages to run away. She's caught up in watching what's happening. This happens both inside the convenience store and out back, when the other girl practically has to drag her away to get her to stop watching. Multiple times, she has flashes of memory and feels like something terrible is going to happen, but she never acts on that. When she's in the woods, there are several points where it seems like she could easily escape, or at least fight back. But she doesn't. She screams at those watching to help. At the end, she repeatedly says that White Bear isn't safe and they shouldn't go there. But when told to get in the van, she gets in. When told to get out, she gets out. Even when she knows that what she's being told to do is wrong, she lacks the personal volition to say no. So it sounds to me like her personality, even with her memory wiped, is pretty consistent with what I would expect from someone who would videotape a child being tortured and murdered.

Another thing I would add is that they have done studies that show that when watching things through a video camera, people do not experience the same emotional impact as when seeing things firsthand. So, while it might take a certain level of detachment to watch a child being tortured, watching it through a phone or camera while filming, would decrease the amount of detachment required.

But it's our memories that makes us who we are. Without her memories of being Victoria she's basically not Victoria anymore. So they're not punishing the same person that tortured that little girl.


That doesn't matter to them. The point is that VIctoria is being punished. They don't care if it is excessive or makes no sense or any other argument against it. The punishment isn't for her. It's for them. It makes them feel good to see her tortured.


Have you ever perused the comments sections of articles about people accused of crimes? Regardless of their actual guilt, as soon as someone is suspected of a crime, people are more than willing to publicly daydream about all sorts of morbid punishments. What they did to Victoria in White Bear is actually fairly tame, considering some of the things I've seen others wish on people (particularly people accused of harming children). We all want to believe that we aren't capable of doing what these people are accused of, but yet we don't see the correlation between their alleged crime and our dreaming up barbaric punishments. We punish others as harshly as we do because we're also exorcising our own demons in the process. Her punishment isn't so much about her, as it is about a society adamantly saying, over and over everyday, "We would never do that to someone." All while they do that to someone.

I couldn't find it to quote it, but someone else commented on the hatred of those running the show for Victoria. I would argue that they were doing a job. They were probably either law enforcement with acting experience, or actors with law enforcement experience. They weren't doing it because they hated her. They were doing it because they were paid to.

I think I covered everything.

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The point is that we aren't given the full story, we aren't given the information, only slightly more than she's given. We feel sorry for her but in real life this is plausible, making it all the more frightening.

Communism was just a Red herring!

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Everything you said in your first paragraph is exactly the point! And I hope you'll take a second look at criminal "justice" in the real world as a result.

I think the episode was one of the weakest because of poor writing, but the premise is direly relevant to our world.

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