Hell even in the beginning when that gang was attacking that guy, the only one that looked hesitant and nervous was the black guy
Come on movie, we see what you are doing here
Not really-- Batman is white. Falcone, the major villain, is Italian, probably Sicilian. Catwoman is equal parts black and white. It's almost as if race doesn't matter to anyone, except you.
shareLMAO
shareActually, other than batman, his point is correct. It does seem that race matters to Hollywood. Even Gordon had to made black.
Why do you care about the skin color of the actor? If he can play the role, he can play the role.
shareBased on the casting, that seems to be a question to be asking the film producers.
shareI don't think so at all. I think the casting is based on who can play a given role. Only you seem fixated on the skin color of the actors.
shareWithout looking, want to bet whether or not the casting calls where open to all races, or limited?
shareWhy does it matter so much to you? I have no idea who decides who plays what role, or what criteria they use. So what if the director specifically wanted a white Batman or a black Gordon? For me, what matters is the end result: is it a good film? Were the actors convincing in their roles?
Turturro, Pattinson, Dano, Wright, Kravitz, Serkis, Farrel, and Sarsgaard were all brilliant in this film, and the film itself was excellent. Skin color or ethnic ancestry affects nothing.
Why does it matter so much to you, to deny the pattern?
I'm only responding to the nonsense in the original post. I didn't, and still don't, understand why people like him or you get so fixated on the race of an actor.
shareHe is one of those racist idiots dude. If it ain't white it ain't right.
shareSo, it's cool for you to care enough about this to post, but it is not for us? Can you expand on that some more?
shareCan you really not see the difference?
shareI can totally see the difference. I'm not pretending that your interest is invalid for some unstated reason. I'm willing to discuss it honestly.
You know, this site is full of threads, I don't care about. YOu can tell, because I don't post in them. I could go there and post. I could go there and mention that I don't care about what they are talking about, BUT, I am fine that other people do.
It would be kind of weird for me to take the time to go hassle people, about something I don't care about.
You know who REALLY cares? Me and you, we are both just talking to pass time. The Casting Director, he handed out jobs, worth millions of dollars, other people's money, that he was entrusted with, based on race.
That is kind of shitty of him.
Why are you so certain the roles were cast based on race? And if they were, why is that shitty? What if the filmmakers decided that after a century in which most films only featured white actors in lead roles, they wanted to make a movie that featured non-white actors in prominent roles? Is that really a shitty thing? As long as the actor can play the part well, where is the harm?
shareThis guy is a peach trust me. He will offer you the narrative that whites are oppressed in Hollywood next. If it ain't white it ain't right.
shareThen make original roles for non-white actors, stop piggy-backing on the success/popularity of white characters. Or better yet, let non-whites represent themselves by creating their own characters, shows and movies, like what the Koreans did with Squid Game and other stuff, or what the Japanese did with anime and manga. Makes sense, right?
If white-washing is bad, then so is color-washing. Sounds fair, right?
Race swapping didn't occur here. Catwoman's race is not essential to her character. Eartha Kitt and Year one comic. Boom point debunked.
shareOr, how about this? Quit worrying about the color of an actor's skin. Who cares if a comic book artist in 1939 drew Commissioner Gordon as a white man? Nothing about his story or character has anything to do with his ethnic background. Whether the actor playing him is black, white, Asian, or any other race is of no consequence. It's acting. It's fiction. We're all humans. Learn to quit focusing on race and you'll realize it doesn't make a difference.
shareThat would be a good message to send to these hollywood types. Of course with some characters, it would matter. Bruce Wayne was always supposed to be old blue blood. For one example.
shareThat's an interesting line of thought. While Bruce Wayne as he was created in the comics came from a line of old blue bloods, how integral is that fact to his character or story, if at all? Great wealth is certainly a fixture, as is the manner in which he was orphaned, but I don't know that his coming from old money is necessarily an immutable trait. I see it more as backstory conceived to explain his wealth, but not something specific to who he is. Take the murder of his parents-- that has to happen. If he didn't witness that murder as a child, and it weren't a violent, senseless crime in a dark alley, then we lose something absolutely integral to who he is, and his becoming Batman ceases to make sense. However, if his grandfather won the lottery, or founded a giant corporation, he still grows up in Wayne Manor, and inherits boatloads of money.
shareI would be skeptical. And what would be teh potential gain in such a change? Having poor uncles?
shareI don't think of it in terms of what's gained but rather, "is anything lost?" I do think in this case you gain relatability. Rather than being a blue blood heir to old money, which is something that basically no longer exists, he would be more like a modern-day rich person. But again, for me it's more important to tell an interesting story without losing the spirit of the character that matters.
shareSpider man had that relatability. I think that Batman was NOT supposed to have that.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more being a someone that most people would just assume would not care about the "masses", is instead risking his life, constantly, for others, selflessly.
The... "subverting of expectations", was always a big part of the character.
IMO.
Maybe relatability is the wrong word. I think realistic better explains what I mean. All the famous billionaires today seem to be of the self-made mode. Donald Trump, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, etc. When Batman was created, it was a world of Vanderbilts and Rothschilds. While most of us can't relate to the lives of a billionaire, adding the whole generations of wealth thing makes him less realistic, but doesn't add any nuance. I think the subversion of expectations is still there-- rich guy risks his life to help strangers-- even if he's not from old money.
shareA self made man, is more LIKELY to do something....radical and out of the box, so the gotcha switch up, is less. IMO.
So, i respectfully disagree.
BUT, if some film maker wanted to try that with a NEW character, I would be certainly open to checking it out.
It occurs to me too, btw, that a rich SpiderMan, seems like a terrible idea too. Or at least one that starts out rich. I was intrigued when it looked like Peter Park was going to get a significant inheritance from Tony Start.
Of course, it is telling that they immediately walked that back, all the way to mind wiping the whole world so that Peter Parker is back to being a struggling working class stiff...
Almost as though his socio-economic status is important to the character...
This would have been something cool to play with in the WI series. Maybe next time.
I think a self-made billionaire does change things, which is why I was suggesting someone who grew up rich, and would likely be a spoiled wastral; think Donald Trump Jr. or Hunter Biden. I think that kind of rich person resonates with people in 2022, whereas we don't really have any Bruce Wayne types left. The Vanderbilts, for example, are all pretty much broke now.
In the 1930s, when Batman was created, names like Vanderbilt or Astor were well-known, and the concept of old money families was well-known. Today, I think that would almost be anachronistic.
In any event, I don't think there is any problem whatsoever with a movie where Bruce Wayne is the grandson, and only living heir, to a guy who made billions in the 1970s.
I personally prefer it if the actors resembled their character's design as much as possible; that includes their race, gender, and/or sexuality, regardless if they have any bearing on their character or not. Some changes are necessary from one medium to another, but only those that are absolutely necessary. In the pre-woke era of Hollywood I was more lenient on the casting since there wasn't an agenda, and casting wasn't based on filling out blue checkmarks.
And besides, it never stops at just fictional characters or characters where their skin has little-to-no bearing on them; Snow White (who's skin color is literally part of her name) and real people like Anne Boleyn have been color-washed, and it's almost always white-to-black, never the other way around, almost like it's down out of spite. So we've got to have zero tolerance for this stuff now, no exceptions.
I personally prefer if the actors do the role justice. Skin color is of no consequence.
shareIt's clearly of consequence to Hollywood. They're all about "diversity" and "representation" these days, so tell them to stop fixating on race. All I want is the actors to look like the characters I grew up with, otherwise I'm just watching strangers on a screen.
shareThat strikes me as a nonsensical justification for you wanting to see an all or mostly white cast.
shareExcept I don’t want POC characters to be changed either. I don’t want a white Black Panther, Blade, or One Punch Man. I don’t want any character of any race to be changed into any other race, same with gender and sexuality. It just so happens that white characters are the ones suffering the most from color-washing lately.
shareThere should be no problem since Kravitz looks like the year one comic book version of Selina Kyle.
shareBecause, like you said, what matters is the end result, ie the quality of the film. THe people making it have a professional responsibility to both their investors and their fans, to make the best film they can, not to have other priorities, such as racial justice.
There is also the matter of various actors and actresses, who are denied roles worth millions, because of the color of their skin. That SUCKS.
And actors of color got denied roles in the past as well. Don't negate that.
shareThank you for admitting that actors TODAY, were denied roles in The Batman, because of race.
I believe that to be wrong. Do you?
Strawman didn't say that. I said actors of color in the past were denied roles. You still need to prove the casting director denied actors roles based on race for this film. I'm waiting for your proof and haven't received any. Why if you felt the film did that did you pay to support it? Aren't the people supporting it part of the problem. If I feel that strongly about something I don't support it.
shareAs well, admits my point about the current discrimination. Thank you.
shareCurrent discrimination? Of which group? Provide the proof that the casting director did that. I will wait.
shareThe discrimination you admitted to, when you said, it happened IN THE PAST TOO. loser.
shareI didn't admit to anything. It's your job to prove discrimination. I am waiting for your proof. Nice strawman tactic. It's a pretty serious thing to accuse someone of racism or discrimination. To do without proof is rather insulting. Then you sink even further just by operating off an assumption. Do you know the casting director personally? Provide proof he is discriminating.
shareWhen you say, "But also in the past", you are admitting my point. Dumbass.
shareNo I'm claiming discrimination happened in the past not currently. Comprehend what you read.
shareYep. By saying, "as well", you admitted to current discrimination. That you can't admit that, just shows what a dishonest hack you are.
shareNo it's me countering you. Learn to comprehend what you read. Nice strawman though.
shareCountering would have been something like, "Actually, it is the opposite of what you claim", instread of "as well", you dishonest hack.
shareNope you just don't comprehend what you read. Tell me why did you pay to see the film?
share"as well", admits to current discrimination. That you refuse to admit that, shows that you are a lying hack.
shareProve the casting director did that. I will wait.
share
https://comicbook.com/dc/news/batman-catwoman-actress-casting-woman-of-color-dc-comics/
https://heroichollywood.com/robert-pattinson-batman-catwoman-poc-matt-reeves/
https://geekvibesnation.com/zoe-kravitz-type-actress-wanted-for-matt-reeves-the-batman/
Not clicking any of your links. After seeing all the conspiracy links you have posted. Also were the races of those characters essential? Why was catwoman portrayed by Eartha Kitt and the year one comic differently than the typical white portrayal? If you are going for a year one comic look Zoe Kravitz is a spotting image of that portrayal.
shareNot clicking any of your links.
I didn't ask you. Piss off bud. Also is every link credible? No you only cite things that go with your agenda. By the way what happened to me dying from being vaccinated? You lied about me dying as well. You are dead to me bud.
shareBy the way what happened to me dying from being vaccinated?
We shall see. Your predictions aren't the best now are they? You said Dune wouldn't be a success and there would be no sequel wrong. You said the batman wouldn't be a success wrong. So I think my chances are good given your failed predictions.
shareSo is Gordon's race essential to his character? You truly are a race baiting idiot!
shareWhile I don’t agree that this movie overall had any kind of woke message, it is rather frustrating that people will say “why can’t’ black actors play roles that are traditionally played by white actors”, yet if you try to go the other way it’s racist and “whitewashing”. I’d just rather we be consistent and not have two sets of rules for different skin colors.
shareWhile I don’t agree that this movie overall had any kind of woke message, it is rather frustrating that people will say “why can’t’ black actors play roles that are traditionally played by white actors”, yet if you try to go the other way it’s racist and “whitewashing”. I’d just rather we be consistent and not have two sets of rules for different skin colors.
EDIT: The excuse that “well black people have had it so hard throughout history so the double standard is OK” excuse is complete bullshit. All that does is reinforce the myth that white people are different than black people and it pushes our society in the opposite direction, and it’s only perpetuated by rich, elites who just want to feel good about themselves.
I think it's all foolish. Unless race is somehow integral to the character being played, it shouldn't matter what color an actor's skin is. We've all had it hard through history. Let's try to make it easier from here on out rather than continuing to focus on race.
shareI agree with that, and even though I didn’t like Zoe Kravitz, I thought Jeffery Wright made a great James Gordon (not as good as Oldman, but still great)
shareAmen brother. Exactly.
shareOther than Batman? lol! Yeah the main character in the film is a rich white man. What about the thug in the film that is colored? People like you are disgusting.
shareYou mean that one that was obviously having second thoughts and could not bring himself to actually assault their victim? That actually supports the idea that race does matter, at least to the people casting for this movie.
shareAgain the main hero is a rich straight white guy. This goes against the notion that the film is racist against whites. Oh so you saw the film then? If you hate Hollywood so bad and wokeness why did you support the film? Be a man and do not support the film. Do not pay for something and then proceed to complain about it. Make a stand and vote with your wallet. Thanks though I am glad you spent your hard earned money on this film.
shareI like the way you immediately dropped your point about the "colored thug". That shows that you realize that it did not support your position. THough the way you could not admit that explicitly, that is you showing a lack of moral courage.
The point stands. Race seems to matter to the producer(s) of this show. The pattern is clear.
I didn't drop it lol. Showing a colored thug even if hesitant undermines your point. How many black people got killed in the dark knight? Joker killed 4 black people in the dark knight. Pencil in the eye, the scar story he tells the black mobster, the cop he shoots with the shotgun, the other cop he shoots while being a nurse. Not to mention how he had the try outs line after killing the mobster. So by your logic the dark knight is racist against blacks. There was a colored thug. If the film had no colored thugs you would jump on that. So no my point stands.
Nope. If that were true Batman wouldn't be a straight white hero. He's also physically superior to an ethnic woman. Batman is the main hero. So um...?
LOL. You soooo did not drop it, that when you bring it up again, you immediately, instead of addressing how it undermined your point, you make a whole list of other weak ass claims.
Gish Galloping. That is the logical fallacy you are engaged in. It is normally defined as a lot of weak claims made to create the illusion of credibility because there are too many to challenge them all.
I often refer to it as someone talking shit.
No retort to there being a colored thug? You are gaslighting. You know you couldn't refute the claims therefore you ignore them. If you failed to refute the claim I will take that as a concession. How did it undermine my point? Regardless of being hesitant he was still a thug. Batman is a straight rich white male. A group you claim is discriminated against despite having dominion in Hollywood. So let's hear you refute that. You have the floor.
shareI addressed it, when you first brought it up, before you dropped it, and started throwing out all that other shit. The bit where you keep bringing up the same point, and pretending that I never addressed it? Screw that. YOu can go back and respond to my first post on teh issue, or you can go away.
shareWhich I addressed you idiot. So because he was hesitant that means he wasn't a thug? Answer that. Also the hero of the film is a rich straight white man. What's up with that?
shareYour best example, is a thug that was obviously being pressured into being a thug, and immediately refused.
That you refuse to admit that you have failed, is just you stonewalling like a troll.
Immediately refused? Did you watch the same film? Batman interfering is what scared him off. So um yeah no. You acted as if he ran off without anything to deter him. You failed here.
Not stonewalling I just raised a reasonable doubt to your claim.
Not sure what you’re getting at with Falcone. Yes, he’s Italian, ergo, a white villain.
Bruce and Alfred appeared to be the only good white people in the movie, and there were no evil or ambiguous POCs. Even Catwoman was portrayed more sympathetically in this movie, and was all but heroic.
Italian isn't really white, and he's probably Sicilian, which is even less white than an Italian. Regardless of your opinion on that, the point stands-- why do you care? Why are you so concerned with the race of the actors? If they play the role well, it works, if they don't it doesn't. Why does race even enter into it?
shareItalian is considered white. Heck, there is only like three or four skin colors in the world nowadays with the logic on the internet and social media. White, black, Arabic (thanks to 9/11), and maybe Native American. Asians are considered white. It's the facial features like the slant eyes that make them Asian. Not so much the skin color. Mexicans could be another possible skin color, but with the logic I'm seeing nowadays on the internet/social media, they are categorized under white altogether. Native Americans I say are a maybe because I'm a mix of Native American and white, but you'd never know I'm Native American unless I whip out my Native American/Tribal card/ID, although I'm quarter Native American. I think I get the white skin from my dad. My dad is white and my mom is Native American (my grandma on my mom's side is 100% and my mom is 50%). Only way you will see the Native American in me is if I let my hair get long and I don't shave my facial hair. And I know my Native American comes out when that happens because I found some old junior high and high school pics of me when I was too lazy to shave and had long-er hair. I kept asking who the Native American wearing my clothes was. But then I realized it was me. But when I have shorter hair and shave my facial hair, I look more white. And I've come across some REALLY white Native Americans that are part of the same tribe as me. So Native Americans are 50/50 and a maybe. But going back to Italian, Italian is considered white with how things are now. You are pretty much either white, black, or Arabic. And there is Mexican and Native American being questionable/up for debate. No more "in between" stuff or specific stuff.
shareFilmBuff, I am Sicilian. I am white. That's not better or worse than being black or asian, but please don't assign me to some other mythical race. Yes, I am aware that many racists at the beginning of the 20th century claimed Italians/Sicilians weren't white. They made the same claim about the Irish. It was nonsense then and is now.
shareWell, I'm also Sicilian and my experience has been that white people consider me non-white, while non-whites think of me as white. My grandfather was enslaved upon arrival to America, and spent his first 6 months here in chains, with hundreds of other Sicilians, laying railroad tracks. While it may be nonsense, like any form racism, it's real.
shareDidn't say it wasn't real, just nonsense. Your experience is different from mine. My grandparents moved to the midwest and my grandfather took a job at the railroad. It was not slaver. (I'm not implying your grandfather wasn't.) He was paid, lived in his own home, bought with his money, and had a pension. He fought in World War I in the American army.
My memory goes back to the early sixties. I have never had anyone tell me, or treat me, like I wasn't white. And anyone who knew me for more than 2 minutes knew I was Sicilian. I told everyone and was quite proud of it. I still am.
Looks like others addressed your Italian point for me.
As for your other question, it’s the activists in Hollywood and the media that care about race, we just made an observation. So our question is, why do they care about race so much? They’re the ones that complained about white-washing in the first place, even if those whites can play the role quite well, but now they’re the ones pushing black-washing. Why the double standards? And why the particular fixation on blacks? It’s like a creepy fetish that they have, like in that movie “Get Out”.
It's almost as if race doesn't matter to anyone, except you.
Who's calling anyone racist?
shareYou called said the OP is the only one who cares about race, by which you replied that he is a racist.
shareI never replied, or implied, anyone is racist. I see many posts here from people complaining about the skin color of actors, and I pointed out my opinion that skin color doesn't matter.
shareRight. When Black people are portrayed negatively it matters, but when White people are portrayed negatively it doesn't matter.
shareIn the first place, neither matters to most of us. It's the handful of people obsessed with race that take issue to it.
More importantly, you are conflating "people being portrayed negatively" with "an actor playing the role of a villain." When Jamie Foxx plays Electro, that isn't "black people being portrayed negatively." That's an actor, who happens to be black, playing the role of a villain. Likewise, when Paul Dano plays Riddler, he isn't representing "white people," nor are his actions indicative of some big message that white people are bad. Dano is playing a villainous character. Race isn't a factor. You, and others like you, make race a factor because you fixate on it for some reason, but it's only a factor in your mind.
Bane, in the comics, is a Latin American guy. In the movies, he was portrayed by a British actor. Electro, in the comics, is a white guy. In the movies, he was portrayed by a black actor. In neither case do their races matter. Sometimes race is a defining trait of a character-- Black Panther is an obvious example-- so it makes sense to cast an actor of the appropriate race. 99 times out of 100 it doesn't matter... except to you, apparently?
You still refuse to see the reality. It isn't just one role in one movie. It's a pattern. The last 10 movies I saw Whites are almost always portrayed negatively and Blacks are the good guys. This didn't use to be the case 5 years ago or so. It's part of a new "woke" ideology and people are noticing it. And it isn't unexpected given that we know leftist Jews run Hollywood. Leftist Jews hate White people. Polls prove it.
share[deleted]
All the officers standing outside when Falcone is arrested (and then gets shot) debunks all this. Plenty of white cops/police officers standing outside. And it's never really said, but I'm 99% sure all those officers are a mix of the good cops in the GCPD and ones that Falcone bought off but were too big of wimps to stand up to him or say no and didn't want to be bought off to begin with. Maybe some were being blackmailed by Falcone for something. But all the officers that were wimps or possibly being blackmailed finally grew some balls when they learned Gordon and Batman were bringing him down.
shareEh, the main hero was white, I’ll let it slide. I doubt they were trying to make an SJW statement there (that is aside from Catwoman’s utterly cringeworthy line).
shareI noticed this too. Some people will call you racist for pointing this out, but I think it is a fair point and worth discussing.
I don't think the intent of the film makers was to make only the white people be the villains. I think it has more to do with the current political climate and the studio being afraid to cast a black person in a negative role. If the gang at the beginning was all black or if there were corrupt cops who were black, people would complain that the film was racist. As it is, the film has received complaints because the victim in the subway scene was Asian. The studios are being super careful not to offend anyone, so that is why the film was cast this way.
Did you watch the new Spider-Man movie? How were they able to make a film where all four heroes are white men? Moreover, of the five villains, the four white villains are victims of circumstance and redeemed at the end, while only the black villain is truly an irredeemable villain. I don't hear complaints of racism in Spider-Man, just as I wouldn't if there were black actors playing corrupt cops in The Batman.
share"LOL all the evil corrupt people are black while the good cop/ thief/ politician were all white." is what you wanna see, right?
I tell ya, post are always posted when black people come out being the good guy. If black people are bad, you criticise. If black people are good, you criticise. Get over it.