Oh what a tangled web us 'simple' people weave. Oh hang on, apparently I'm an English fag too! Who would have thought that a critique I gave on 23rd December 2012, on what was, to me, a boring and unfulfilling film would have caused such a stir and still be commented on as we head into February 2013? Incredible. So some of you have taken exception to the fact that I didn't like the film - SO WHAT! For pity's sake people, get a grip. It was one film among many that I simply didn't like. Heaven help us should I comment on something actually important like politics, religion or crime and punishment. Normally I wouldn't bother with cheap attacks on my intelligence or understanding of life and its myriad problems therein by people who don't know me and never likely to know me; it's of no importance. But on this occasion I do feel as if I need to pose the question WHY? Not why were remarks made about me specifically, but why you felt the 'need' to make a personal attack on someone (anyone) simply because they commented on a film you liked; or a film that had an impact on you. And generally, why resort to childish name calling and the demeaning of character rather than intelligently accept that someone simply has a different opinion to that of yours? Each one of us, sentient, intelligent, and individual, all have opinions. Those opinions are hatched and influenced from childhood through to adulthood by experience and teaching; good and bad. An example of bad teaching and example for others to learn from and follow is the inability to accept those differences, work with them and find common ground. Rather than to just attack them. In my 45 years I've had more than my fair share of depression, loneliness and loss, but just because someone else may not understand what I've been through, doesn't make them fair game for my bile, or make them any less worthy. And sometimes it can be a relief. Someone to bring a little sanity to an otherwise insane world.
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leishayoung
12 years ago
It sounds to me as though you thought it was going to be a sci-fi movie and for this I can understand you being disappointed that it absolutely wasn't, but I can't accept you writing it off as tosh. The film is very well made and even if you couldn't really relate you must be able to see the quality of the film. It's very difficult to see truly great films being written off as tosh when there really is so much garbage out there that IS complete tosh.
The reality is also that some people wouldn't know a decent film if it jumped out of the DVD case and inserted itself into the player. Just because a film comes out that requires some level of in-depth thought or some level of maturity and experience to grasp doesn't make it tosh.
It's just annoying that's all, and Hollywood doesn't make enough films like this for people who like their entertainment a little more in-depth than space ships, vampires and robots that turn into cars (not that there isn't a place for these films). So it's aggravating when boards like this are inundated with stupid, ill-conceived posts that quite honestly...aren’t true.
For people who were truly affected by this film (because the subject matter is very important to them) the comments are infuriating because you know it's coming from ignorance. Some people are sick of the ignorant perspective (we're inundated with it in every facet of popular culture) and want some intelligent conversation around a movie that very accurately portrays an illness that many people suffer with. It would just be nice to not have to wade through the proverbial swamp of inanity that always seems to accompany the boards for films that are not just popcorn movies.
Honestly, it makes you want to take the 'metaphorical' gun to the 'metaphorical' tower.
Rant over!
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DomAlfred
12 years ago
Hello. You are, for the most part, actually making a great deal of sense - in the general sense that is. If you read some one of my earlier replies to a post you would realise that I am a lover and promoter of films that deal with sensitive subjects and ones that provoke and challenge understanding and perception. I love films that really push the boundaries and assault our very sensibilities and unsettle the staid 'I don't do real life' conservative alumni. You do still seem to have missed my point however, about accepting that others have differing opinions and being able to accept that those differences are fine. We can't all agree, and just because [the collective] we don't, doesn't mean that makes them fair game for insults or any less intelligent. I'm sure there must be films out there that have dealt with similar subjects that you have felt just didn't do it for you - or missed the point.
Also, I never expected it to be a sci-fi film as such. I knew it was about the effects of facing your imminent mortality, and how that impacts on the family structure and individuals therein and the potentially catastrophic effects on someone who suffers from the frequently debilitating bi-polar disorder. That's what drew me to it. And someone's level of intelligence and/or ability to grasp in-depth thought and ability to enjoy or understand this film aren't mutually exclusive. I'm well educated and two years ago qualified as a cognitive behavioural therapist. I have a professional understanding of depression and bi-polarity and have suffered from severe depression myself; and I still didn't like the film. Finally you say that you are aggravated by the posts that are stupid, ill-conceived and......aren't true. Remember, they 'are true'; to the people that made them. Regardless of whether you agree or not. But I agree that films that deal with such subjects are hugely important and younger people should be encouraged to watch them to help them gain a greater understanding that the world isn't full of superheroes, pink fluff and popcorn. So I'm on your side - mostly.
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leishayoung
12 years ago
Cool, I appreciate your response.
I think the reason this film is having such a backlash towards the ignorant responses is because it has hit some people very hard. There is a real emotional response to this film that you are not likely to get with others.
I think when people get on this board and say the film was shocking it's almost a personal attack on those who can totally relate to it. It's as if they are again being misunderstood just when they thought they were being understood.
Von Trier tried to share his perspective on what it's like to be depressed knowing it would speak to people who have felt or continue to feel the same. When people say it was absolute tosh it's like taking his sincerity and shoving it back in his face...he is being misunderstood again.
All we see when people get on here with their ill-conceived comments is someone else attacking us and our state of mind. It's like this film is a little piece of us, it's ours and we don't want anyone attacking that or trying to steel it away from us.
Anyway, I'm probably becoming waaaay too psychoanalytical at this point.
Sorry if I sounded aggressive...but I'm clearly one of those people.
Take care and (in the words of Dr Frasier Crane) "good mental health".
P.S - "We can't all agree, and just because [the collective] we don't, doesn't mean that makes them fair game for insults or any less intelligent". Spoken like a true 'mental health professional' :-). Sorry had to say it and I respectfully disagree if it makes me feel better :-)
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DomAlfred
12 years ago
Your P.S made me smile. Smiling on a chilly Saturday morning is always a good start! Thank you. I've enjoyed our little banter. Take care. I'll be sure to read your future posts when I see your name pop up from time to time. And remember; when life throws you lemons, buy vodka and have a party!!!!!!! :-)
P.S. And while Dr. Crane is a legend in his own lunchbox, no one comes closer to Sainthood than Dr. Sheldon Cooper!
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leopoldfrank-1
11 years ago
Absolutely brilliant post. There is nothing more for anyone to say (although I notice there are several more pages on this topic - though hopefully they are full of people saying "well done leisha on a *beep* awesome post").
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Robanjo78
12 years ago
Who would have thought that a critique I gave on 23rd December 2012, on what was, to me, a boring and unfulfilling film would have caused such a stir and still be commented on as we head into February 2013? Incredible. So some of you have taken exception to the fact that I didn't like the film - SO WHAT!
If you're so surprised that your post gets feedback and your answer to those who responds is "SO WHAT!".....then why the fxxk did you post to begin with?
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DomAlfred
12 years ago
(Sorry in advance. This is a bit lengthy. Verbosity strikes again!)
I'm afraid you've completely missed the point and took the opportunity of anonymity to be (slightly) abusive. Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? Read all the posts from start to end. You may then see my response was to the way the replies to my OP were worded and how they started out not as simple replies to a critique of a movie but as attacks by people aimed at me personally: The name calling and my presumed lack of intelligence, emotional depth and understanding. I had no real issue with people having different opinions about the film. I welcome frank and open debate; and those who 'actually know me' will testify to that fact. And if you took the time to read through all the posts you will see that with one poster in particular I partook in a number exchanges and we finished with an intelligent and eloquent discussion on the subject matter and quite friendly, too! So what we ended up with was a mutual respect for each others' opinions while still disagreeing on the film in question. And that was exactly what I hoped to achieve by posting; an honest, intelligent, respectful exchange of ideas and opinions. When posts become abusive no-one wins and the discussion is lost at infancy because you immediately lose respect for the person with whom you are interacting. I don't know you, for example, so therefore can't make any comment whatsoever on you as an individual. I would never insult you or your intelligence for I have nothing with which to base it on. So what would be the point (other than to spitefully antagonise you just for the hell of it!)? What could I possibly gain?
Maybe the fault is mine. And this is directed to no on in particular: maybe I misunderstood the idea of the message boards. I'd hoped it was about everything I had just outlined. Maybe instead it's just a forum for faceless people to bitch at one an other because it's easier than taking the time to write well conceived, well thought-out, intelligent posts. And maybe, at the tender age of 45, I'm just too antiquated and people half my age have got it cracked, whereby eloquence is identified by how quickly one can be abusive. And one of the greatest tools we possess is cognitive dissonance. Although dissonance implies conflict, it also allows us to be open minded by holding true or accepting both sides of one argument, thus enabling us to find common ground. Now THAT'S why I post!
Sorry this was over-long, but I just wanted to get that out. Now can we please draw a line under this? It is getting rather silly now. But no doubt I'll post something again sometime that some will find contentious. Lets hope eh?
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rick-71-298386
12 years ago
You're a class act. Some People on these forums could do too take a leaf out of your book when it comes to how to converse in a civilized manner. For instance, I was going post a mocking response to the deep and depressed crowd and about how dull such people are, but then I thought better of it.
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startcopysend
12 years ago
Unless I'm mistaken, cognitive dissonance is a feeling of discomfort, not a tool. The conflict is from inconsistent beliefs and/or behaviours and how you deal with it would be the tool, eg denial, self-justification or conscientious self-reflection. ? I'm not 100% sure.
These message boards are unfortunately not the greatest place for constructive and well thought out debate. It's clear that you have much to offer in the way of intelligent exchanges, but I think you started off on the wrong foot. Your choice of subject heading, all in uppercase with 5 exclamation marks doesn't give the impression of someone wanting to engage in a constructive debate, but rather vent about how they thought the movie was a total waste of time. Which, like thousands of other posts on IMDB with similarly phrased and punctuated subject headings, is exactly what you did. With sweeping dismissiveness you described the film in the negative as if yours was the only possible conclusion to draw, didn't give any grounds that other people might like it, and didn't offer anything in the way of generating the kind of discourse you appreciate and can clearly manage, like expressing interest in what it is about the movie that people enjoyed, or asking questions that other members could follow up on. Your subsequent post were surprising and refreshing, because your first post gave you a bad impression.
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