MovieChat Forums > The Irishman (2019) Discussion > Another thought about "The Irishman" ...

Another thought about "The Irishman" ...

posted 5 years ago by brux (14840)
30 replies | jump to latest

This movie should have been a big event for the US. It is not often that we get a filmmaker of such repute as Scorcese to make a movie the whole country can see online for (almost free) and it was a chance for a learning experience.

My takeaway from this, and I have been thinking about it a lot, is that The thing I took away from "The Irishman" was that Scorsese is not really a great of a moviemaker, and does not have good literary or artistic judgement, aside from being truly brilliant in the technical aspects of filmmaking.

I don't need the audience to be beat over the head with it, but to make this movie and not really draw the distinction between the Mafia/Sheeran and the Union/Hoffa clearly for an audience that probably knows none of this stuff is a major fuck-up.

The Mafia were criminals, and Hoffa was a hero to the working Teamsters of America who had to stand up to Big Business ... just as evil and greedy as the Mafia who were killing people, cracking heads, bombing and ruining lives to pay workers nothing. Hoffa got mixed up with the Mafia to try to protect his people, the Mafia just did what they always do ... terrorize and steal everything they can manage. In a lot of ways Scorsese's movies have been recruitment advertisements for organized crime, and the movie industry has helped make it legit.

It is like Scorcese is Mafia, or is a coward, scared to make the Mafia look like what they are ... even in the grocery store beat down scene he did not want to make the Mafia guy look so bad, so they make a big deal about how the fight looks fake ... but I think he did not want the movie to repulse people, so the violence is stilted, stylized.

I think that was the fault in that scene, and why is did not play through well in the whole rest of the movie. This was a movie made about a trash popular book that was an expose about the Mafia ... most likely full of lies and BS. There are thousands of theories on what happened to Hoffa, not to mention JFK, so why make a fake-movie with one guy? What was the point? There was no real point, which is why this movie though free, and entertaining, is just not a very good movie.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I enjoyed the movie even though I don't believe much of what Sheeran has to say.

[–] cyberbob (3488) 5 years ago

Hoffa was a hero, but he was still a criminal. If you conspire with "evil" and "greedy" people to achieve your benevolent goals you are still complicit in that evil and greed. The stink of evil rubs off on you. You aren't off the hook just because mainstream moral standards deem you to be a good guy. You don't know what went on inside Hoffa's head or Sheeran's head anymore than the guy who wrote the screenplay.

Maybe some gangsters were true believers in the cause of workers' rights. Maybe they only did what they did out of necessity. Maybe Hoffa was only out to satisfy his ego and his lust for power and the cause of labor unions was just the right vehicle for his ambitions

Ultimately, everyone would be better off if you made less threads. Your posts are not that interesting or nuanced

[–] ZaphodBeeblebrox (4) 5 years ago

I'm not sure I understand your post. Scorsese is not glorifying the mafia or Sheeran. The murders in the film are brutal and shocking. Several people in the film that were associated with the mafia met ugly, violent ends (as the subtitles showed). Sheeran died a lonely old man because his daughters despised what he did. I personally think Scorsese is one of our greatest directors and I'm happy he's still making powerful films like The Irishman.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

> Scorsese is not glorifying the mafia or Sheeran.

OK, that's your opinion. I think for a major director to make an international movie on this subject is the very definition of glorifying myself.

> Sheeran died a lonely old man because his daughters despised what he did.

You are very squirrelly with your words here ... Sheeran died a lonely old man BECAUSE OF WHO HE WAS AND WHAT HE DID. Someone should have come by when he was living in that old folks home and given him the Gus Fring treatment the SOB.

"The Irishman" was a limp dick fantasy for the clueless who only care about violence and tough guy movies ... and disregard the truth or history -- but of course they always have been.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 5 years ago

Excellent points.

[–] Interlepos (1818) 5 years ago

>>Scorsese's movies have been recruitment advertisements for organized crime, and the movie industry has helped make it legit.

Yeah, excellent point. I know several people who joined the mob after watching both Casino and Goodfellas, and yesterday a friend of mine told me that he flat out considered becoming a mob enforcer after watching The Irishman.

Scorsese has been recruiting them like hell. The mob has grown ten fold after his films were released. It's really wild.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

You have a severe lack of paranoia and imagination ... that is why you shall probably remain a cheap internet troll all of your days.

[–] Windsaar (324) 5 years ago

To be honest, I'd have accused them of trolling myself had I not seen it first hand.

A good friend of mine left to join the Mafia after watching Goodfellas. Just up and walked right into the recruitment office..resume in hand. Got hired on the spot.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

Can you tell how I know you are a troll?

[–] Windsaar (324) 5 years ago

I bet it's because I was trolling for a single comment, therefore you painted me as a troll in general.
Am I right?

Just like how you didn't like the Irishman, therefore you hate movies. Right?
I think I'm starting to get the concept.

[–] Mrmojo4700 (21723) 5 years ago

I have seen it too. Sometimes young people won’t talk about it but you can tell when they start listening to Do Wop and chain smoking.

[–] FilmBuff (7437) 5 years ago

The line at our local Mafia recruiting station was around the block the day The Irishman hit local theaters.

[–] ebhaynz (3761) 5 years ago

Hoffa is a classic example of "if you lay down with dogs, you're gonna get fleas".

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

> "if you lay down with dogs, you're gonna get fleas"

Or shot twice in the head. ;-)

I'd just about bet that the mob killed Hoffa for the bosses instead of for any reason of feeling threatened.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

> No offense, but why do most women have such terrible taste in movies?

Are you kidding? Maybe it's because most women are not violent murderous psychopaths.

> Now, please stop over-thinking and over-analyzing and just try to enjoy the movie!

I never really get this thing about telling other people what to do. Mind your own fucking life and grow up. I can make my own decisions.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] FilmBuff (7437) 5 years ago

Why do you have such a negative opinion of the Mafia? How is it any different than a government? Truth be told, I think you have a very skewed, formed-by-the-media notion of what the Mafia is and how it is run. Hoffa and the Teamsters are just as villainous and just as heroic as the Mafia figures.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

> Why do you have such a negative opinion of the Mafia?

Compared to trolls ... I love the Mafia.

[–] FilmBuff (7437) 5 years ago

I wonder if we'd be any worse off, or more likely better off, if California, where I live, were split into city-states and run by families mafia-style.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

First, go back to where you came from and think was go great and give it the old college try ... but don't tell me to not say I told you so when you wake up dead in a barrel of acid at the bottom of the foundation of a sports stadium.

Clearly Italy did not send up their best people.

[–] FilmBuff (7437) 5 years ago

Because the government never kills?

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

Your pretty quick with the trollish nonsense ... don't make me put you on ignore.

I never claimed the government never kills, or that it is always right ... so so realize jumping to accuse others of extreme views when it is you that is putting them out there makes you a kind of troll.

Governments kill because they are the state, and in all countries the state has the monopoly on violence .... but it is supposed to be in service to the people, not to a group that seeks to destroy the country.

[–] FilmBuff (7437) 5 years ago

If you think the families that ran what you call the Mafia sought to destroy the country, you're mistaken. But besides that, think about what you are saying-- governments kill because they are the state, and they have the monopoly on violence. How does that in any way make what they do good and what a ruling family does bad? You're simply stating that because the government has the title "government," its actions are somehow justifiable, or better, than if they don't? That's absurd and illogical.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

You are totally under cutting your point since the movie showed none of that.

> governments kill because they are the state, and they have the monopoly on violence. How does that in any way make what they do good and what a ruling family does bad?

Are you capable or rational linear thought at all?

It doesn't and I never claimed it did, but they do not have the right to kill you if you disagree with the state. A modern government derives its legitimacy from the consent of the governed not the barrel of a gun or blackmail.

Sorry, your comments are so off the wall that I have to put you on ignore for a while.

[–] FilmBuff (7437) 5 years ago

Like I care if you ignore me? Here's a response for you not to read: You're attributing all sorts of goodness to a government simply based on their title of "government," while buying into unfounded stereotypes regarding guns and blackmail for what has been dubbed the Mafia. We'll continue to disagree on this, and as all you can do is lob insults, there's no point in discussing the matter further.