MovieChat Forums > The Irishman (2019) Discussion > Another thought about "The Irishman" ...

Another thought about "The Irishman" ...

posted 5 years ago by brux (14840)
30 replies | jump to latest

This movie should have been a big event for the US. It is not often that we get a filmmaker of such repute as Scorcese to make a movie the whole country can see online for (almost free) and it was a chance for a learning experience.

My takeaway from this, and I have been thinking about it a lot, is that The thing I took away from "The Irishman" was that Scorsese is not really a great of a moviemaker, and does not have good literary or artistic judgement, aside from being truly brilliant in the technical aspects of filmmaking.

I don't need the audience to be beat over the head with it, but to make this movie and not really draw the distinction between the Mafia/Sheeran and the Union/Hoffa clearly for an audience that probably knows none of this stuff is a major fuck-up.

The Mafia were criminals, and Hoffa was a hero to the working Teamsters of America who had to stand up to Big Business ... just as evil and greedy as the Mafia who were killing people, cracking heads, bombing and ruining lives to pay workers nothing. Hoffa got mixed up with the Mafia to try to protect his people, the Mafia just did what they always do ... terrorize and steal everything they can manage. In a lot of ways Scorsese's movies have been recruitment advertisements for organized crime, and the movie industry has helped make it legit.

It is like Scorcese is Mafia, or is a coward, scared to make the Mafia look like what they are ... even in the grocery store beat down scene he did not want to make the Mafia guy look so bad, so they make a big deal about how the fight looks fake ... but I think he did not want the movie to repulse people, so the violence is stilted, stylized.

I think that was the fault in that scene, and why is did not play through well in the whole rest of the movie. This was a movie made about a trash popular book that was an expose about the Mafia ... most likely full of lies and BS. There are thousands of theories on what happened to Hoffa, not to mention JFK, so why make a fake-movie with one guy? What was the point? There was no real point, which is why this movie though free, and entertaining, is just not a very good movie.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Again, as I posted in your other thread - I think you are missing the large point in Scorcese's main theme - and that is how he was trying to portray life and death and what goes on in a person's life.

I think there are two aspects that point to this - the first takes one to look at the broad themes Scorcese returns to again in the history of his filmmaking and how much morality, religion, good, evil, redemption and so on end up in his pictures (really, if one thinks of it, The Irishman is similar to Raging Bull when it comes to the main figure - here you have a person that has acted horribly throughout their lives and then, in the end, seems to be struggling with the past.

The second aspect is to remind oneself of the age/point of their lives of those involved in this film.

I think Scorese's intent is clear when it comes to what he was trying to say, especially when one watches the bookends of this movie, and it was not about the attempt to tell a factual story of Hoffa.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

> he was trying to portray life and death and what goes on in a person's life.

That is not a point, that is simply not what any movie tries to do.

You know, just because there is a shot of a cross or someone goes to church does not mean a movie has "religious themes".

> and it was not about the attempt to tell a factual story of Hoffa.

The movie in general is a failure, and that is exactly my point. Don't put Jimmy Hoffa in the movie at all if you are not going to tell a story relevant to his life.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Now, you are starting to make me wonder if you really pay attention to Scorcese's work (and his history) and what went on in The Irishman. Just knowing of the past movies Scorcese's history clearly strengthens the presence of the human condition, including religion, morality, good, evil, redemption and so on. And that is what all this movie was about - life between people.

I think the religious aspect to this movie was quite clear (it may not have been portrayed in 90 percent of the movie, but the parts between De Niro and the priest were compelling in their intent).

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

Can put your long pants on and grow up and learn to disagree with someone without having to insult them or condescend to them. You sound like a real putz telling me "you are starting to make me wonder if you really pay attention to Scorcese's work".

First, I don't care what you think. Second, it doesn't really matter for purposes or discussoin.

I'll read your opinions and discuss if you can remain rational and civil, but questioning whether I pay attention to a movie and running away to troll me makes you look like a desperate troll, not me.