MovieChat Forums > I Spit on Your Grave (2010) Discussion > Seriously! People on here are crazy, to ...

Seriously! People on here are crazy, to think she was right!

posted 13 years ago by Niallbrooke
253 replies | jump to latest

Trolololol.

[–] mayvie 13 years ago

Niallbrooke : Shame on you... You have no heart. I hope you're not a girl to think like that ! Even smart men know she was right ! It's because of people like you, saying stupid sentences like "millions rapes = no justice"; that MILLIONS OF MEN ARE OUT, MAYBE YOUR NEIGHBOUR, INSTEAD OF BEING IN HELL ! THESE MEN DESERVED ALL SHE DID ! WHY ? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT MEN, THEY'RE MONSTERS, ANIMALS.

HOW PEOPLE CAN BE RIGHT WITH THE FACT THESE MEN CAN HURT WOMEN AGAIN ? YOU DEFEND HELL.

[–] Symarip 13 years ago

All people are animals, actually. And hell is a fairy tale.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

And hell is a fairy tale.

Is this your opinion or fact?

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

It's a fact. Pretty much the only people who believe hell is real are people who've been brainwashed into believing it's real since they were children.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

If it's fact, show me the proof.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

It doesn't work like that. Burden of proof lies with believers, since they came up with the claim. You can't just come up with something and ask others to disprove it. Makes no sense.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

You also can't categorically state that something doesn't exist until it can be proven to exist and call the an irrefutable fact.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

''You also can't categorically state that something doesn't exist until it can be proven to exist''

That doesn't make any sense. You can't state something doesn't exist until it's proven it exists? What...? :I

''and call the an irrefutable fact.''

???

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Let me put it like this: burden of proof only applies to prove that hell (or whatever) undeniably does exist. Until such proof, saying that it undeniably does not exist is only an opinion. Definitely not fact.

Example: Before 1981 there was no proof of the existence of HIV even though it clearly existed. By your criteria, since burden of proof was unsatisfied, HIV didn't exist. Obvious fail.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

Of course there was ''proof'' (really not the term you should be using here) HIV existed, because it did. But nobody knew anything about it before 1981, and nobody claimed to know. I mean, there was no burden of proof, because there was nothing to prove. Your anology just doesn't work at all.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Proof (your term) or not, I can give many examples of how things that weren't proven to have existed, existed none the less (like you said, which proves my point). Don't play stupid. Whether or not anyone knew anything about it or claimed to have known anything about it have absolutely NO relevance to it's existence, just like your lack of knowledge, awareness or understanding of "hell" or the myriads of yet to be imagined, (much less discovered) places, things, phenomena, etc., etc. have absolutely no relevance to their existence. My point is, burden of proof is not applicable here. Burden of proof is only applicable in proving something DOES exist (which in this case, hasn't been claimed) or stating irrefutable and provable fact which your opinion is not. You saying that hell or life on the third planet from the third sun in the Little Dipper doesn't exist is your OPINION. Period. If you want to state irrefutably, that it doesn't exist then burden of proof falls on you. Until then, it's entirely possible that it does exist. This can't be argued.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

''Proof (your term)''

Not my term. A term, which I used it correctly, and you didn't. Proof is factual information that verifies a conclusion. There was no ''proof'' for HIV, as nobody was trying to prove or verify anything. Symptoms, that's what made people aware of HIV. But it was always there, waiting to be discovered. That's not the case with hell or any of those other stories. It was made up, without anything to back it up. Faith, that's what it is, and nothing more.

''My point is, burden of proof is not applicable here. Burden of proof is only applicable in proving something DOES exist (which in this case, hasn't been claimed)''

What...? Theists claim hell exists all the time. YOU are claiming it exists! :I
Well, you believe it exists anyway. Same thing.

''If you want to state irrefutably, that it doesn't exist then burden of proof falls on you. Until then, it's entirely possible that it does exist. This can't be argued.''

Yeah, it's possible. It's also possible Santa Claus and unicorns exist. You can't prove they don't exist, right? :P

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Yeah, it's possible.

Ah, so we agree then. Your claim that hell doesn't exit is your opinion, not fact as you first claimed.

Pssst.. By the way people, I think that (proclaimed) atheists secretly believe in unicorns because almost every time I talk to one they bring them up and they're usually pink... Coincidence? Hmmmm......

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

It's still *beep*. A scare tactic made up by people thousands of years ago. Only people brainwashed by their brainwashed parents believe in that stuff.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

It's still *beep*. A scare tactic made up by people thousands of years ago. Only people brainwashed by their brainwashed parents believe in that stuff.

Sorry that you have a mistaken view of God but I have to say that your OPINION is incorrect. I was raised in a family completely devoid of ANY religion, spirituality, faith etc. I discovered the wonders, love, beauty, freedom and peace in Christ on my own and He has SOOO blessed me and my family :] I know the emptiness of life without Him and I could never abandon my faith. I believe that we are all hard wired to seek Him and I pray that you can find Him and join me in His kingdom. It really is that awesome!!!

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

No, I'm not weak-minded, so I don't need religion. And no, not everyone is ''hard-wired'' to seek him. Every culture has their own silly beliefs, with their own fairy tale gods and characters. Jesus is only a small part of that.
But anyway, I'm glad I'm above all that.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Well good luck with being "above all that". BTW, I'm probably one of the strongest minded people that you could ever hope to meet.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

Then why would you need gods?

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

I only need one God because I acknowledge that he created me and in fact created reality as we know it and we were created to need Him. Needing our creator is knowing that He is the source of our strength. There is no weakness in that. An inflated self image and an ego that tells us that we can exist without Him and that reality is just some cosmic coincidence, is weakness really. Thinking all of that and surrendering to non-existence at the end of a life that under those terms is completely meaningless and insignificant to me is the utmost in weakness in fact. My God has revealed to me in my heart, that it ain't over when it's over and I'm sooooo happy and grateful for that, every day of my life. That excitement and happiness is available for you too if you would open your heart and mind..

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

''My God has revealed to me in my heart, that it ain't over when it's over and I'm sooooo happy and grateful for that, every day of my life. That excitement and happiness is available for you too if you would open your heart and mind.. ''

Lol, talk like that just makes me laugh. I can assure you, I don't need to believe in some sort of afterlife or whatever to be happy. Friends, family, hobbies, a good job, that's what makes me happy. Not superstition. Again, I see this as a weakness. You need faith in something that has never been proven to be happy. Doesn't make sense.
What makes you so sure ''your'' god is the right one anyway? Because billions of people would disagree. And you'll burn in hell for not believing in their gods.
I just don't get it really. How could adults believe into all these stories? It's so primitive. I mean, it made sense thousands of years, when people didn't know as much about the world as we do now. But these days, why would you believe in any of that crap. Gods, hell, heaven, Adam and Eve. It's plain silly.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Lol. I'm prayin' for ya.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

No, really. How can you be so sure your god is the right one, and not any of the hundreds of other gods out there?

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

From a strictly fact based standpoint, here are TONS of historical (verified) events, fulfilled prophecy, etc., etc. Some of the fulfilled prophecy is truly amazing!! And then of course there's the spiritual/faith based things that are difficult for a non-believer to accept. I have never heard an audible voice but He does speak to my heart in subtle but unmistakeable ways that I never experienced before and in my life, He has definitely done amazing things that again, are unmistakeable. It's all there for you and I highly recommend it!! He said: "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

That's great and everything, but you avoided my question. How can you be so sure your god is the right one, and not any of the hundreds of other gods out there?
Don't you think it's funny how you would've believed in some other god had you grown up in another country.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Actually I did answer your question as well as it can be answered. Historical documentation and faith. Faith is just that. There are some questions that just cannot be definitively answered. You contend (have faith) that there is no God so I can ask you the same question: How do you know? How can yo be sure? You can't.

I can't say that if I grew up in another country that I would believe in some other god. For one thing, I was not brought up in any faith and also Christianity is the most widely practiced religion in the world. Christianity has endured thousands of years of scrutiny and most importantly, it is historically accurate and even the non-religious agree despite (again) thousands of years of trying to discredit it.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

I believe in facts, logic and science. Gods are not a part of that.

But really? Christianity is historically accurate? You're not talking about those stories in the bible are you? :P

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

You betcha baby. I believe in facts, logic and science too!!

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

You can't believe both in facts and in gods. Those don't mix.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Ca'mon! I thought you learned your lesson about putting forth your unsbstantiatable OPINIONS as fact.

I believe in facts, logic and science.

Ok, we both agree on this but then you undermine any element of credibility you might have with a statement like this:

You can't believe both in facts and in gods. Those don't mix.

That is neither factual, logical or scientific...

None of man's known "facts, logic and science" irrefutably rule out God and that my friend, IS a fact!

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

I mean, 'believing in facts' as in believing in everything that has been factually proven. Now, there are tons of scientific theories that have not yet been completely proven either, but at least they're trying, looking for an answer. Theists simply avoid logic and make up their own silly stories instead, which made sense thousands of years ago when people simply didn't know any better. But now? There's just no excuse.

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Again, opinions. There are millions of scientists of faith that are looking for answers. Also in recent times, groundbreaking discoveries have been made that point more and more to intelligent design.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] Symarip 12 years ago

''Groundbreaking'' discoveries? Really now...?

I'm the grim reaper, lardass, and you're my next customer.

[–] namaGemo 11 years ago

Chilone is full of 5hit talking facts and science, then mentioning intelligent design. What a joke.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] woodstock1960 11 years ago

Chilone....it's people like you who make me consider on becoming an athiest....shut the *beep* up already...save it for flippin' church and stop trying to throw your flippin' religion on everyone!! Until you have physical proof of something existing, fine...but for now...just be quiet...PLEASE!!

[–] chilone 11 years ago

Really??? I've been "quiet" since June, moron.

Chilone....it's people like you who make me consider on becoming an athiest....

By what you are saying here, you have faith of some sort but I'm making you consider renouncing it (as you are saying that you are not yet an atheist)?? What exactly did I say that would cause you to make a decision like this? I offered (nicely) my opinions/beliefs in response to another's opinions/beliefs. Where's the offense?

Apparently you have a dog in this fight probably due to a personal struggle of some sort or you wouldn't feel compelled to respond to something that I wrote over FIVE months ago, so I assume you read this entire thread (if you didn't, you should be the one to "shut the *beep* up already"). With that being said, I originally responded to ANOTHER poster throwing THEIR flippin' religion upon everyone which I have every right to do. So how's 'bout you take your own advise.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] chilone 11 years ago

I doesn't make any sense? Ok....

God doesnt exist, heaven isnt real, hell is a lie, religion is *beep*

The only way you could KNOW this is if you were omniscient which would make you.... well..... God.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chilone 11 years ago

As long as we're human, the world will never be a better place but good luck with your "faith" and may God richly bless you!! :)

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] derhead2112 13 years ago

You're the second person I've seen on these boards telling people they are heartless, or in the other case, sub-human, for not condoning torture. I think you really need to take a hard look at that one.

Reality has a liberal bias.

[–] NYAmicas 13 years ago

I've seen some pretty STUPID stuff written on this board but how the hell do you get drunk and depressed and "accidentally" rape someone? So that's how it occurs? o_O

[–] misfit61104 13 years ago

spoilers"""""""""""""""""""""""

One thing people forget, they left her to die.

[–] hank-moody 13 years ago

Firstly, it is a fictional movie of the horror genre so common sense from a main character isn't really what you'll get most of the time. Also they raped and tortured her physically and mentally, then were going to kill her but she escaped, luckily. She sought her revenge and in my opinion is the baddest b*tch in a film I've seen for a long time. I was literally rooting for her in the end. And isn't it something rare that we barely see in this genre either? The good guy prevailing instead of the villains. Overall, it's a film made for entertainment.

Wine is fine, but whiskey's quicker.

"You're so cool."

[–] duongdogg 8 years ago

She turned into a monster because of them. There was no turning back for her. The vicious gang rape and torture fkd her up. They didn't deserve to breathe after that. They probably raped many others. They are scum.

[–] bushido777 13 years ago

The fact that we don't kill people like this is why our gene pool is currently tainted with people who do things like this. Just because a lot of rapes are committed doesn't magically make it right. If everyone died who raped another, well maybe the next bastard would think twice before they did it as well.

When you violate the life of another, you sacrifice that of your own.

And of course their families don't deserve it, though I would keep a close eye on the children to make sure the evils of the father weren't passed on.

[–] mxlflx 13 years ago

[/quote]The fact that we don't kill people like this is why our gene pool is currently tainted with people who do things like this. [/quote]

So, genetics is the source of all aberrant behavior? Good to know someone nailed it down for once and all. If this is the case, then you do realize there is a very good reason for Mankind to be inclined towards violence? You see the universe at large is not enlightened to morality. Secondly, outlaws, deviants, and perverts are deterred by nothing at all once their selfish desire takes over, that's why they do it. If the idea of hurting another individual permanently is not enough to deter them, why would external punishment that may or may not ever arrive? I mean, one of our assailants represents the law of the land, no?

Anyway, your reasoning behind culling violent people from the genepool is inane and pointless because it would require catching all the offenders before they reproduce or containing and/or killing their offspring BEFORE they in turn act out. Not too mention a whole lot of people are commiting violence in turn on our behalf from the military to law enforcement, do they get a special killer's waiver so they can reproduce and avoid your ovens? See where this slippery slope slides fairly quickly?

I still believe. Do you still believe? - Earl Hickey

[–] swanster73 13 years ago

Pontious Pilate?
No death penalty here, but if a member of MY family suffered then yes I would want the offender to take maximum punishment. It all seems so convenient when it doesn't affect you directly..........

[–] derhead2112 13 years ago

That's part of the point, though. People don't think rationally when they've been affected by traumatic events. So quick, let them make life and death decisions! Sheesh.

Reality has a liberal bias.

[–] Niallbrooke 13 years ago

Ok I haven’t looked at this for a while and now let me just make a few points. To people saying that if someone rapes someone they don’t deserve a second chance and deserve to be executed, please could you think about the bigger picture and why we have laws and regulations that make us civilized in the first place.

There were over 150,000 REPORTED rapes in 2009 therefore are you suggesting that we execute all these people? Oh wait hang on….What about murder surely that’s as bad if not worse that rape? With your revolutionary eye for an eye world solution to serious crime shouldn’t they be killed as well? So in 2009 there were around 490,000 Murders so now we have 640,000 to be killed a year from executions which over is 1 execution a minute.

Now executions these days are normally done by lethal injection, which is a humane way to do so… However with this new influx of people needing to be killed according to your logic we would we would need more people to be executed at once. Why not just get everyone that needs to die on a day and gas them…Oh wait that sound familiar, where have I heard that before?

Also…what about someone who forces someone else to rape someone… Wow! We are opening up a big worm hole here now. Does that mean that the person who forced the other person to rape the victim gets the death penalty or do they both get it as they were both involved? Hmm what about manslaughter is that worse than rape? If you kill someone by accident you’ve taken their life so do they deserve to be executed as well… Where does this eye for an eye…two wrongs can make a right logic end….

My overall view on the movie was if that happened in real life she would be in prison. If she would have escaped they would be in prison.
If you want a world where by everyone kills everyone after they commit a serious crime that is a very dark world indeed.

Also interesting fact only 2% of rapes are by a stranger…

[–] flargnater 13 years ago

Welcome to reality, we DO live in a dark world, just most humans don't want to admit it. Having law and order isn't really a bad thing but personally I see no reason for it. If someone raped someone close to me I would want to kill them, trust me it's happened and I can't even fathom what she felt. She wanted the person to die, and rightfully I think he should have died. Do you consider this person a human being anymore? What if you got raped, would that change your tune a bit? Yes, true criminals deserve to die in a manner that shows them what they did. The modern judicial system is a joke and has most brainwashed into thinking that it's the "humane" and "correct" thing when it really isn't. We are animals that react on instinct, and what would your instinct be if you were raped? Let the monkey in you do thinking sometimes. Rant over

[–] Totenglocke42 13 years ago

Wow, I can't believe you actually support letting those bastards live and go back to society to rape / murder again.

Oh, and lethal injection is NOT humane - it's actually quite painful. A bullet to the head would be humane because they'd die instantly and never feel a thing, but that makes more of a mess and people like you are more concerned with how things appear on the surface than the actual fact of how inhumane your "caring" actions are.

As for your moronic comment about manslaughter? You even said in there that manslaughter is and ACCIDENT - you don't "accidentally" rape someone.

It's sick that you want her in prison and those men back to raping other innocent girls.

A world where anyone who commits a serious crime isn't dark, it's better - you do realize most crimes are committed by repeat offenders, right? Killing people who commit rape / murder means that no one who is caught can ever rape or murder again, as opposed to your system of giving them a stern lecture about how rape / murder is bad and then letting them loose to do it again.

[–] theunbeholden 13 years ago

If they catch the bad guy and he's found guilty then yes he deserves the death penalty. For murders it's fair treatment, nobody disputes the fairness of it.
If you kill someone other than for self defence or execution, than you will be killed. Its equal treatment.
Whats at dispute is the morality & logic behind it. Morality is to subjective and I think the logic of it is simple, murders and rapists, according to statistics most of those offences are by repeat offenders. I would not be comfortable with the idea of one of those people being released only for them to rape or kill someone else. Nobody can give me a guarantee that they won't do it again.
The amount of murders and rapists in any one country or state (that are caught & found guilty) assuming theres more than one place in each state to do it, can all be executed with no need for 'gas chambers'.

and I find it horrendous that you compare the death penalty for rape and murder to the 'gas chamber' of Hitler's regime. Hitler didn't punish people for their crimes, he punished them for being alive.

"Also…what about someone who forces someone else to rape someone… Wow! We are opening up a big worm hole here now. Does that mean that the person who forced the other person to rape the victim gets the death penalty or do they both get it as they were both involved?"

Thats easy. The Jury will decide whether the man who was forced to do rape as to whether hes guilty or not... people who do crimes under 'the duress' of the real criminal are found innocent.

"Hmm what about manslaughter is that worse than rape? If you kill someone by accident you’ve taken their life so do they deserve to be executed as well… Where does this eye for an eye…two wrongs can make a right logic end…."

Manslaughter is killing someone by accident. No one here is advocating the death penalty for that... People here are talking about Rape (incl. gang rape), Torture and Murder... (or in the movies case, attempted murder as they where just about to shoot her before she jumped into the river).

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Also interesting fact only 2% of rapes are by a stranger…

Which adds to the heinousity!! (I know that's not a real word but I like it!!)

Your numbers look and sound pretty staggering and daunting at face value but what is really staggering is the resources needed to keep these sub humans alive for decades..

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chilone 12 years ago

If someone(thing) savagely raped and killed or tried to kill your DAUGHTER, you would think otherwise?

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Yes I am Christian.. Ok, go for it!

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Lol! I (we) already have forgiveness. Have you accepted yours?

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chilone 12 years ago

Lol, I love it!!

No. I am an atheist. God is a delusion. God is dead (in my opinion).

So which is it? God is a delusion or God is dead? If He's dead then He was alive at one time. How do you know that one of these mutually exclusive opinions is true? Your conception of reality is no more valid than mine or anyone else's. If you believe that it is, tell me 'cause I will have no interest in having a discussion with you.

But you haven't acknowledged your sinful ways.

Actually I did by saying that I am forgiven. To be forgiven, you have to have something to be forgiven for.

If I had to pick one thing I really hate.. it would be a hypocrite. You don't even follow your own philosophy..

Actually I'm the furthest thing from a hypocrite. Do you follow your philosophies to the letter? I sure don't and NO ONE is capable of not sinning. "There is none righteous, no, not one." - Romans 3:10. I would be a hypocrite if I lied and said that I'm a sweet little holier than thou, sinless angel like you atheists seem to think we're supposed to be or think that we think we are. I am a low down, dirty, hell doomed sinner! I lie, cheat, hate, covet, lust. etc., etc., etc. just like you and everyone else. God's commands weren't given because God thinks we can adhere to them. On the contrary. They were given to bring us to the point of the absolute hopelessness of our own merits and that we're totally dependant on His mercy and grace.

Wrath according to the bible is God's responsibility and just because you are forgiven automatically doesn't mean you have no responsibilty. In fact I think that's a cheap way to look at life.

I wholeheartedly agree. I, like most true Christians don't use His forgiveness as carte blanche to do whatever, whenever. Just like you, I fall short but again I would be a hypocrite to deny the fact that there is evil in by heart. It is a lifelong battle to be the best people we can be even though we'll never attain perfection.

If the character in this film (the sadistic rapist) was to ask for forgiveness at the end of his life, would God forgive him?

I am SOOOO thankful that he would! Salvation and redemption is available to ALL that ask for it. I mean really? How could one even segregate non damning and damning sins?

Whilst damning people like me who do their best to not hurt people. If so, that's f.u..k.ing disgusting.

He doesn't damn anyone. We damn ourselves. Do you want to be an automaton or to be free to choose? If I invite you to my house for dinner, you can't deny that my house and I exist and still expect the dinner.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chilone 12 years ago

And yes, you are a hypocrite. First you were saying these people were subhuman, now your saying they deserve forgiveness.

Nope, still not a hypocrite. If my daughter was raped and murdered, just let me say right up front I would most likely not be able to forgive and would most likely want some SERIOUS revenge!! I don't think there are too many people alive or dead that would be able to forgive Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot etc. either but I/we are not capable of the level of forgiveness that God has. BTW, His forgiveness is based on a blood penalty that Jesus paid in our stead. That being said, again I'm SOOO thankful that He will forgive ANYONE that wants and asks for His forgiveness which means despite the evil in my(our) heart, He has forgiven me!! Now without going too far into this, we talk about "the punishment fitting the crime". The acts that Hitler committed were not even a billionth of a tick on the clock of eternity so if he was truly sorry and begged God for mercy, would eternal damnation still be fitting? I'm glad that decision's above my pay grade lol!

It's good you agree that Christians shouldn't use God's alleged unconditional forgiveness as an excuse to commit immoral acts. Although, you can see why that might cause some problems, no?

We ALL commit immoral acts but yes and no. It is thought that someone that is going around "sinning" unrepentantly, without restraint may not truly be saved. I don't know the answer to this but personally, I subscribe to what the apostle Paul wrote: "I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything." - 1 Corinthians 6:12

You don't think Christians should be punished for taking advantage of God's forgiveness? (Instead of reasonable people like me?)

I don't think God "punishes" people as much as he lets us suffer the consequences of our own actions. I do believe He does intervene in our lives as he sees fit but I don't think there are any preset parameters.

Reasonable people like you? Major can of worms. First, your life here is just like everyone Else's (see above). Second, your eternal "punishment" is self imposed. Third, in a non-believing world, laws, punishment/penalties, standards, etc. are subject to the society's (man made) decrees. In some countries, killing your wife is legal as well as many other acts that a SERIOUS felonies in the US and other 1st world countries so "reasonable" is subjective.

Also even though God is supposed to be all forgiving there are plenty of times in the bible where he came off as a rape, slavery, genocide and fascist enthusiast.

God allows us to do the things we do even if he doesn't condone them and in most cases does give stipulations such as treating slaves kindly and making provisions for them to get out of bondage. If you read the whole accounts of the events instead of out of context distortions it makes a lot more sense.

Your definitions of justice are not universal (killing wives, public executions, regime sanctioned public revenge killings etc. are justice in some countries) Some say imprisoning someone for life is torture and inhumane. It is proven that severe punishments DO deter crime. If I will have my hand cut off for stealing a candy bar, guess what? I'm not stealing any candy bars or anything else. There is and will not be any perfect solution as long as there is evil in man's heart.

Invited? More like forced. We do not choose existence.

Ca'mon now! You're rally going to bemoan your existence? You're free to check out anytime.

There is no proof (get that?) no proof that God exists.

Hahaha! I see proof of God's existence everywhere! Go look at your eye in the mirror. Evolution cannot explain your eyes. Create a living blade of grass. Explain the impossibly complex universe, how it works and where it ends. There's plenty of proof if you look for it. Your reality is not mine or billions of other's (get that?)

At Least when I get invited to a person's house I can prove they exist. I think if God does exist, he has a very sadistic sense of humor.

I hate to break this to ya but God isn't running a democracy. If you don't like His rules, start your own universe. Do you not know that if He wanted, He could do unspeakable evil for all eternity. I'm SO grateful for His love and mercy!!

He conceals his existence yet punishes people for not believing.. There is a difference from giving your guest a set of rules in your house and burning them in eternal damnation for disbelieving something that has no plausible evidence to back it up.

There's none so blind as those who will not see. People have been talking about God for as long as there have been people and people have been talking about and following Christ for 2013 years. When you come before God, you will have no excuse. Take eternity serious. There's no do overs.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] chilone 12 years ago

I' try to keep this relatively short lol.

I do believe God has a plan that is predetermined but I think we differ on the details and execution. Yes we do have free will. If Judas had not betrayed Him, He would have worked it out another way. I believe that was one of MANY possible chains of events that lead to His ultimate goal. Judas made his choice of his own free will. I don't think the path you're on is predestined. I also think that he'll do everything (short of forcing you) to ensure your salvation but the yes or no is entirely your decision.

Yes there are events in the Bible that I can't explain but a couple of things to keep in mind: God's timeline is eternal. Our perspective is most often based in the here and now. The "tragedies" we suffer in our miniscule lives are trivial in the scope of eternity. Even the holocaust will eventually be forgotten. God takes us when it suits Him. He took Lot's family for His purposes. When should He have taken them? I believe He took them directly into His kingdom and IMO, they got the good side of the bargain :) He's gonna take me and you. When should He take you? When you're 70? 80? Why not 85 or 105 or 55? It's only because we have free will and Adam chose to not believe Him that we die at all. Do you know the human body regenerates it's self every seven years? So why do we die? For the record, I believe and LOVE science but (like you) don't believe it can ever explain some things such as "the breath of life". Unfortunately "mainstream" science is dominated by atheists that don't want to believe in God because they're consumed with the need to be able to explain the unexplainable (to the point of making stuff up) that we don't hear dissenting opinions unless we dig for them. I DO believe in micro evolution but there's no credible proof of macro evolution. That said, here's an interesting article on the evolution of the eye:

http://creation.com/did-eyes-evolve-by-darwinian-mechanisms

BTW, I like how you wrote "evolution is almost a fact" :]

Free will and rules can and do exist together.

The "nihilistic" view is not mine (I wrote "in a non-believing world") and you're right. Like I said, it's a slippery slope :o)

Yes I am a Christian but I don't deny that I do have an evil nature. As cliche' as it is, the old saying "Christians not perfect, just forgiven" could not be any more true. I AM justified by the blood of Christ.

Nowhere in the Bible is it said that suicide forfeits ones salvation but as an atheist, that should be irrelevant to you. Also, we have no say in what kind of god we have and yes, He has given you the right to "give Him the finger" if you so choose. As for me, I'll take all the mercy He'll give me.

God, gods, that's what I meant. My point is theism has been prevalent in humanity since the dawn of man. Also Christianity and prophesies of Jesus predate Buddhism and are historically accurate.

I am definitely not threatening you! I sincerely hope and pray that you will have a place in God's kingdom. My point really is, we take sooo many ultimately pointless things in life very seriously but what may or may not happen when we die, to most people is irrelevant. For me, it's a matter of great concern.

Be well.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] chilone 12 years ago

First of all I would like to point out that we as mere finite minded mortals are debating, analyzing and trying to figure out God which is kinda like an ant trying to analyze us lol!!

The paradoxes you pointed out are prime examples. I think of God's plan being predetermined is a lot more complex than face value suggests. Sort of like having alternate endings in movies. The endings are pre-written but which ending will ultimately be used? I think our free will and a myriad of other variables and factors could predicate this. This is I'm sure VERY over simplified btw.

Yes, I do take tragedies seriously because we are rooted in the "here and now" but I DO have the capacity to step back and view things in a more eternal perspective as I believe all of us do to some degree. That's why when people die, they say things like "he/she is in a better place now".

Choosing the right god I think is (can be) part of taking your eternity seriously and searching. There are numerous passages of scripture that say basically this such as: "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13.

If you did murder me and my family, actually you probably would be doing us a favor but I'm in no hurry to check out of this life. God has given us a lot to enjoy here :o)

God hasn't explained the universe and I really don't think we need to have an explanation. As for explaining God and where He came from and all of that, I think that's WAAYYY beyond our ability to understand. I'm certain He exists and operates outside of the time space continuum and outside of any kind of reality that we can come close to understanding.

As far as prophecy of Jesus. there a a lot of them. Here's a small list of ones that have been fulfilled:

http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsandlists/a/Prophecies-Jesus.htm

Judaism (Funny, they were the original writers of the bible yet your books differ)

Of course the old testament (Jewish Bible) was written by Jews. There was no such thing as Christians 'till Christ was born 2013ish years ago!! The old testament is obviously the Christian Bible too. The new testament is where Christianity and Judaism are divided. The Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah that their (and our) scripture prophesied of. They're still waiting :]

How the whole thing about people that die before hearing the gospel works out is not too detailed in the Bible but there are mentions of them as "sleeping". I think His workings in this are outside the time space continuum also.

That's a very biased source.. best to read articles from people who have actually spent time researching objectively.

Lol!! Objectively? By your standards? MANY people would say he is objective but ok, find me someone universally objective. :] They're ALL biased in a practical sense. I just found him (very highly educated and respected btw) if a 2 second Google. There are legion more like him with impeccable credentials and compelling, plausible arguments just like there are legions of opposing scientists with equally impressive credentials and arguments. They can all refute each other but until someone comes up with absolutely irrefutable "facts", who's to say?

In closing, to me it seems that you have some anger towards God. If it is because of perception due to man's evil and corruption of His word, I suggest rethinking. In the thousands of years that man has been on this earth, there has NEVER been any significant periods of peace. That's not because of God. If we had followed Him from the beginning (and I mean the BEGINNING), that would not be the case.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] jinx_malone 13 years ago

Check this *beep* out: It's. A. Movie. It's also a *beep* remake of a rape-revenge movie. Have you ever seen a rape-revenge movie? Like, oh, I don't know, Deliverance? Or Ms. 45? The idea is that the film is there to make you question whether the ends (torture and murder) justify the means (rape). Get this, it's *beep* crazy, I know, but: YOU are allowed to decide whether or not you think what Jennifer does is 'right'! Isn't that an awesome concept? Someone else makes a movie, and all the people who watch it get to have their OWN opinion!

In this case, the movie chooses to up the ante (unwisely, I think) by having Jennifer use the sheriff's family as part of said revenge. Did it add anything in particular to the movie? No, not for me, not really. Then again, I think remakes of seventies exploitation are generally a waste of time. More often than not, better the first go-round.

Also, they were too cheap to show us the special effects in real time. Always a cutaway, then the aftermath. I call *beep* You might not. Again, opinions.

In future, my advice is that you watch a movie as a movie and not as a depiction of real life! Thanks.

-------------------------
"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

[–] ilon 13 years ago

Right? No.

Understandable? Yes.

[–] derhead2112 13 years ago

Wow, a rational post. I had almost given up hope.

Reality has a liberal bias.

[–] lastflip 13 years ago

She was right.period

if a mutha *beep* ass raped me I would kill his ass too

[–] capnmorgan5150 13 years ago

No, she should not have killed the mom and daughter (which she didn't), but everyone else got what they deserved. They should've gotten worse in my opinion.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Swordsman83 12 years ago

why not castrate those rapist as punishment.. its worse than death penalty.

[–] englisher101 13 years ago

Well, we could get into a discussion about how all form of killing is wrong.

However, if there are some really bad guys in this world, I'd say any who gang rape a helpless woman with the intent to kill her would be pretty high up there on the list, and I wouldn't necessarily feel any sympathy towards them.