MovieChat Forums > Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) Discussion > how would you have done Joker 2 to ensur...

how would you have done Joker 2 to ensure another billion hit?

posted a month ago by bozo_500 (13118)
23 replies | jump to latest

All they had to do was something along lines of the 1st film .. an 'Unbreakable' style deconstruction of the Joker mythos, and something that would excite audiences and pay off some expectations from 1st film..

I can probably come up with a premise just off top of head on which to blow *gasp* 200m! that would have a decent chance at being a billion hit and keep everyone happy (audiences, shareholders, studio bosses, even some critics)

-Start off with opening trial with Harvey Dent etc, Arthur sent to Arkham for life.

-Flash forward 15y to late 1990s we see Arthur (who is now like 50 bc hes prob only supposed to be 35 in J1) escapes in some big mass jail break like in Batman Begins - (we briefly see likes of Penguin, TwoFace, Riddler, etc), by now 'joker' has totally taken over Arthur so he's like the traditional Joker (the proper genuine one). There's the romance with HQ (GaGa) but no musicals beyond like one fantasy set piece.

-then it becomes something of a crime thriller for bulk of movie, jokers ascent to crimelord abit like 'The Dark Knight' but from Jokers POV ultimately terrorising Gotham - 'year one' Batman would be in shadows, vague urban myth, not really seen until the confrontation finale, where 'Arthur' would come back briefly when he realises its Bruce. Batman would be an unknown guy in fact maybe never even see his face, and would be a very closely guarded spoiler not revealed in any trailers, publicity etc to keep it a surprise.

-ends with something like last shot of TDK but with Joker and HQ in the Jokermobile (like that scene in Suicide Squad)

Therefore couldve been like a mirror to the Nolan trilogy. J1 would be (retroactively) like 'Joker Begins', J2 'The Dark Joker', (and a potential J3 could be 'Joker Rises') as well as continuing with the Scorsese vibe (Goodfellas/Casino, Gangs of NY/Departed)

[–] ehewitt (45) a month ago

@bozo_500

Quite a few issues with some of what you've suggested.

Firstly, you cannot guarantee how much a movie makes at the box office. Therefore, you cannot say something "has a better chance at being a billion dollar hit" when this is just speculation on what you perceive or want, but not what the reality actually is. It is impossible to know for exact something will be a billion dollar hit unless you have the ability to see into the future.
A movie can be completely different or completely the same from the predecessor, but it still might not make a billion dollars. This idea of making another billion dollar hit is pointless, because it's outside the studios' and filmmakers control, and isn't really a target. The only reason you mentioned this is because the first movie made a billion. If it did not, you wouldn't have written the sentence you had.

Secondly, the plot suggestion has a few things fans of the 1st movie and general audiences would dislike.
By flashing forward 15 years to the late 1990s, you are showing a completely different Joker character. The Arthur from the 1st movie doesn't exist. Therefore, it's not a continuation from the 1st movie, but more a standalone Joker movie, which goes against the theme and style of the 1st movie, making it seem like your new movie suggestion is set in a completely different world. It begs the question, why bother caring about Arthur to begin with in the 1st movie when he is forgotten in the 2nd?
That would be deemed a disappointment by the fans. They would interpret your new movie suggestion as if it had been made by someone who didn't watch, care or understand the 1st movie.

Thirdly, the suggestion is generic. There's nothing special about the plot. Nothing to make it stand out from the other crime movies.
And the plot is a big plot hole. Joker escaping, but no police trying to find him, considering he killed someone on live TV? Someone they wouldn't just not try to find......

[–] ehewitt (45) a month ago

.....Also, by showing Joker terrorising Gotham, you're turning the character into the villain.
The audience wouldn't root for him. They'd see him in the way Harvey Dent saw Arthur in the actual movie that was made.
Plus, some members of the public and the media would view the movie as sending an irresponsible message; that any person with a mental illness ultimately leads to insanity. Demonizing people with mental illnesses.
This would be what your movie suggestion would be unintentionally saying. But this would be picked up by quite a large number of people.

The only way your suggestion would work is if Gotham is shown to be no different to the Joker, or the Joker has suffered throughout his years at Arkham, or is shown to have a worldview the audience can deem as logical. Therefore, the audience can understand why the Joker starts to terrorise the city. Otherwise, he's just the villain of his own movie. Not someone the audience can root for.
Fight Club would need to be the reference point. Otherwise, this wouldn't work.

All in all, your suggestion sounds like the plot only exists because you made it exist.
The Joker broke out of Arkham because the script needed him to do so for the plot to take place. Like there were no previous arkham riots in the previous 15 years, but this time he felt he needed to escape. Spending 1 to 15 years in
Arkham was OK, but spending a 16th is too much. It reads like plot convenience and plot contrivance.
A sequel with this storyline would have existed only because someone wanted to make a sequel. It does not read like a natural continuation. Just a sequel for a sequel's sake.

[–] Magicdave (848) a month ago

It wouldn't have been a MUSICAL!!!

[–] TheCatman (282) a month ago

I liked the first movie because I work in psychology and it was all about how people abuse and drive each other crazy.

I didn't like it because it's another DC movie not about the DC universe.

An exciting film would be about this Joker gaining a following but it turns out that the real Joker is out there and the Pheonix character fucks around and finds out, as they say. The film could be a horror movie about competing psychos with the real Joker being far more heinous and ingenious than any copy.

Toward the end, Batman comes in and saves the day.

He could also be portrayed as a horror character because he is darkly more ingenious than anyone.

That would fix the first movie by tying it into the DC universe.

All of that would blow minds and be a huge hit.

[–] bozo_500 (13118) a month ago

Yeh i like that concept better than mine, sort of like what they did but way better (and no musicals) . I think my concept was too convenient, contrived etc and just 'too Batman', getting away too much from the 1st film about Arthur, basically like the guy above explained lol

[–] TheCatman (282) a month ago

I wasn't saying your idea was bad. I just added mine because it was another good idea.

Also, I hate out of universe superhero films. It's like the film production is ashamed of the comics which have been hits for almost 100 years.

Meanwhile, some pedo type director makes up his own crap and makes it disappointing or total crap.

Like I've said, a moneymaker would have been to rescue the first film, which was a creative ripoff of Taxi Driver, by incorporating the DC universe. If they made it R rated and had Batman as the cold calculating science fiction character he really is wrap the whole thing up, audiences would flip out.

As a side note, there's been news that the director screwed this film up on purpose. If true, that means he wasted something like 800 million dollars in profits or more. The guy who made the first Fantastic Four said he never read any comics and decided to make Galactus a red cloud, which is something from Islam.

If I invested in these films I would want to see these guys erased from Earth.

[–] BuckleBilly (1150) a month ago

Add Batman.

People go nuts for that guy.

Oh, and make it a goth musical like repo the genetic opera.

[–] rootvegetables (1670) a month ago

Simple:

1. Hard.
2. Core.
3. Nudity.

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