MovieChat Forums > House of the Dragon (2022) Discussion > War for the Stepstones

War for the Stepstones

posted 2 years ago by Philhelm (509)
18 replies | jump to latest

The episode 3 battle seemed bizarre, but it's possible I missed a line of dialogue.

The Crabfeeder was besieged on the island(s) for three years, yet Daemon and Corlys were "losing" the battle. How is that even possible? If most of the pirates are holed up in the caves, wouldn't they just be able to sink their fleet (or better yet, burn it), or starve them like in a traditional siege?

I could accept that the Free Cities were aiding the Crabfeeder with ships and supplies as a proxy against Westeros but it seems that there should have been a better explanation.

[–] Zoltan (244) 2 years ago

I didn't understand it either and I don't think you missed anything.

[–] almonigal (1283) 2 years ago

You are 100% correct about this battle (makes like 0 sense, it was pretty much waste of cgi budget). But I'm beginning to like the series storyline, intrigue and characters. As long as it advances a somewhat decent storyline, I can disregard some mistakes.

[–] Philhelm (509) 2 years ago

I'm trying to give the show some latitude since it is otherwise enjoyable, but this war had too many things wrong with it.

From an ASOIAF wiki, the war takes about two years in the book but it seems that it was a war over a series of islands (the Stepstones) and my impression was that there were various naval and land battles throughout the war, and that the Crabfeeder had outside support. The way the show presented it, it seemed that there was a three year war over one island.

[–] winslow (1318) 2 years ago

They had plenty of crabs to eat!

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 2 years ago

Down by the sea but not in the caves.

[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

This being the first large battle scene in HOTD reminded me of the first large battle scene in GoT. It was also a beach battle entitled, The Battle of Blackwater Bay. Although the first large battles in GoT were not actually shown and those were the battles that Robb Stark commanded.

Battle of Blackwater Bay was a lot better than this, I mean it's almost like the difference between night and day. BWB was a much more entertaining battle than stepstones.

This battle kinda sucked if I am to be honest. But apparently the crabfeeder was prepared for a long siege. I would assume he stored a lot of supplies in the caves. But I don't think this is ever mentioned in the show, what was mentioned was the crabfeeder digging in for a siege and attacking ships at night, as per the report that was discussed early in this episode. That was when the king said he didn't want to talk about it.

Not sure why attacking at night would be successful but apparently it's a valid tactic for the crabfeeder.

At any rate, I hope the next large battle will be better than this one.

[–] MartyDeniro (4171) 2 years ago

To be fair, I wouldn't expect that level for a 3rd episode of a 1st season. Blackwater was the penultimate ep of a season of GofT, and the ep was named after it, and centered on it. This battle seemed designed to flesh out Daemon's character more than anything, and it was only one portion of the episode, rather than being only about it.

[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

That's true, Deniro. But goodness, they couldn't come up with something just a little better than that?

I mean, they had all the elements.... plenty of men, dragons, a weird seacreature/warrior crabfeeder guy, and an even more complex Daemon T and still, this is it?

Then again, maybe this is how it played out in the book, I haven't read the books yet. But this was a weak effort in my view.

[–] MartyDeniro (4171) 2 years ago

I have my own issues with it, but I think some reactions here sound like people pining for a highlight reel of classic GofT episodes. Blackwater was one of the best. And like we've mentioned, the first battles in GofT were nothing but implied. Remember Tyrion suiting up for his first battle in S1, where his father hopes he dies? Tight close up, gets his ass kicked, fade to black, then fade into some bodies lying on grass. End of battle scene.

My problem is the whole introduction of the Crabfeeder. They made him seem like this ominous figure that would play a larger role going forward. I thought he'd have a backstory that would get stitched into the narrative along the way, then be unmasked. Instead, he stares around like Jason from Friday the 13th, then gets offed off-screen. Crab feeder, we hardly knew ye.

[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

Yep, I forgot about that Tyrion battle scene or lack thereof.

Shame we didn't get a full blown display of any of those early GoT battles.

And yeah, that was a quick introduction and departure for crabman. I was thinking the same thing. It was another oddity in HOTD, and it probably won't be the last.

[–] almonigal (1283) 2 years ago

I like this comment, it's spot on.
But I relatively disagree on Crabfeeder, it could be smelled from the start he would just be a plot device, not someone that would play a larger role. About his staring as Jason, that's true.
Anyway, like someone said below, he served enough to advance Daemon's character.

[–] MartyDeniro (4171) 2 years ago

As I mentioned above, I think the whole battle was just for that purpose (fleshing out Daemon) -- but I think the very end of the 2nd ep lingers on the turned back of the Crabfeeder. To me, that's way too much emphasis for someone you're going to dispatch so easily in the very next episode, and without the audience even able to see it. A little too much drama for such a nothing whose nail banging is all we got to see in the end.

[–] Philhelm (509) 2 years ago

Perhaps they gave too many preliminary details leading up to the final battle, to the point that it did not stand up to logic.

My brainstorm idea:

1. Have a large naval battle with the explanation that the majority of the pirate fleet was destroyed, along with a contingent of mercenaries sent by the Free Cities who were supporting the Crabfeeder. Daemon and Corlys are winning since there is perhaps one primary island remaining and the Crabfeeder, pirates, and mercenaries are holed up there. However, the Free Cities are casually sending an endless stream of mercenary fleets. This only ends with the Crabfeeder defeated since the Free Cities are only interested in a proxy war against Westeros.
2. Perhaps Corlys again asks the king for aid, since while he has a large fleet he may not have the soldiers required to take all of the islands of the Stepstones. Perhaps he does this behind Daemon's back since he does not want to exhaust his house's resources.
3. Set the stage for taking the final island. Most of the war was spent fighting naval battles and taking minor islands. Daemon and Corlys are currently waiting for the dispersed fleet/troops to arrive at the staging area, but they receive word that the king's fleet is approaching. Therefore, Daemon is forced to make the seemingly reckless decision to begin the assault while not having the entire fleet/army so that the king does not steal his glory. Rather than arriving alone, the half-strength army advances against heavy bowfire. Daemon swoops down with dragon, kills the Crabfeeder, and blah blah blah.

[–] asom (6832) 2 years ago

They should hire you as a consultant at least, if not just fire the failed writers and have you write it :D

[–] Philhelm (509) 2 years ago

Maybe they should.

I literally pulled it from my backside but I think it would have been better with polish, good dialogue, and minimal exposition. Most people who post here could probably come up with something better.

[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

Phil, that makes a lot more sense than what they did. Some of the decisions in this are lacking explanation. Hopefully it will become more clearer as the show advances. But it's going to have to get better pretty quick to keep me interested.

[–] almonigal (1283) 2 years ago

Wow, this is sctually so much bettet

[–] sati_84 (467) 2 years ago

Valid points about battle tactics - it was extremely stupid to present this battle the way it was presentet (that the attackers are at a disadvantage). There are a million ways to kill them / draw them out. Have the dragons carry big rocks and clog up the entrances of the caves. Have the dragons start fires in the caves (have them toss trees in there or something), and they will burn / suffocate, etc, etc.

But aside from that, I could have let it slide - the creators wanted an extended battle scene, then let's have it, but the most important aspect of any battle is to have a stake in it, have characters we care about. Daemon is OK, but we did not get a character for the Crabfeeder... AT ALL! He is a placeholder, generic bad guy #278, who for some reason is killing people, so we must stop him.

Gone are the well-written evil characters, gone is the nuance that was once GoT, the Crabfeeder is a complete failure. When he was dragged out by Daemon, I was just shrugging at the scene. No emotional reaction at all. I did not understand the Crabfeeder, on any level. No motive, no personality, no nothing. Such a shame!

Elsewhere, the dynamic between Viserys and Rhaenyra is well written, and the politics of King's Landing are OK, but currently there are no interesting plot threads, and we need at least two of them ASAP.