PUT A CHICK IN IT
AND MAKE IT EXTRA LAME
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sharecome on kowalski you love it
sharedid you like that episode of SP?
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MovieChat Forums > Madame Web (2024) Discussion > PUT A CHICK IN IT
It’s even worse if you compare Madame Web with the old comics and cartoons. She’s a legit old lady and they cast the sex kitten from a soft core porno.
sharewow i didn't even know, interesting!
shareVilafire is correct. Madame Web from the comics was an elderly woman, restricted to a chair because she needed constant life support. She was also blind. However, she was also a mutant, a precognitive and clairvoyant. She had, IIRC, operatives throughout the city to help her prevent or mitigate disasters and crimes. She aided Spider-Man on several occasions.
Author of the Sodality Universe:
The Road fro Antioch
In the Markets of Tyre
Flight to Lystra
The Theater of Ephesus
The Council on Jerusalem (coming real soon now. In final edits.)
The Shattered World Series begins in 2025.
That actually sounds like an interesting character, with a complex background or abilities, I would like to see in a movie.
shareYeah, that's why modern, woke Hollywood won't make that. They're too invested in Mary Sue, girlboss characters who alienate male viewers -- who comprise the majority of superhero and action movie audiences -- while not drawing in enough female viewers (who are very markedly more attracted to romance, comedy, musical, and other genres) to make up the difference. They can try all they like to blame this on misogyny, but this, like "The Marvels" was a movie made by a female creative team, starring female leads, and for a female audience, and it's women who aren't showing up in theaters to see it.
shareIf you see the film you'll find it is closer to the comic than you seem to think.
sharecloser to the comic? wasn't madame web a character with an interesting backstory?
i quote"Cassandra Webb was born in Salem, Oregon. She is a paralyzed, blind, telepathic, clairvoyant, and precognitive mutant,[1] allowing her to work as a professional medium. She was stricken with myasthenia gravis and was connected to a life support system designed by her husband Jonathan Webb, which included a series of tubes shaped like a spider-web....Webb is the grandmother of the fourth Spider-Woman, Charlotte Witter. She participates in an arcane ritual known as the "Gathering of the Five" to gain both immortality and eternal youth.[8] Restored to her physical prime, Webb then serves as a mentor of sorts to the third Spider-Woman, the young Mattie Franklin.[9]".
Yeah close to the comics....
Did you watch the film?
shareof course not, but saw the plot explained on youtube, so i know it is not close to the comics, did you read what i wrote and people before?
shareI'd responded to the person saying that in the comic she's a blind, wheelchair-bound old lady connected to a mechanical spider's web, which is what the film portrays as well. As for the specifics of her backstory, I know changes had to be made because Sony can't use mutants because of a rights issue, and they didn't delve into her grandmother, etc., but the basic gist of the character is very in line with the comic books.
shareoh sorry then
shareHaaaa! I came here to say that myself.
shareWell, to be honest, putting a chick in the lead doesn't necessarily makes a movie lame, remember, like, fucking Alien? However, this movie does not seem to be the case, knowing the politics and overall movie quality nowadays.
sharemany goos movies with female leads, yes especially before hollywood went super woke
shareThese days it's a sign of societal decay.
People keep defaulting to Aliens, but that was nearly 40 years ago at this point. It kind of shows how much of a steep decline has overwhelmed the movie industry.
Plenty of great films with a female lead after Aliens. Kill Bill, mad max fury road and more.
shareOh there are some rare gems for sure, like The Long Kiss Goodnight or Doomsday, but given the deluge of female-led action films over the last two decades, and the horrible quality of the vast majority of them, it's quite telling that out of the hundreds or so movies starring females as leads throughout that time, you were only able to name two films you considered to be good.
shareYUP...QUITE TELLING THAT IT TOOK THIS LONG TO GET TO WHERE WOMEN GET AS MANY SUBSTANTIAL ROLES AS MEN.
shareOh I can keep going. Girl with the dragon tattoo, true grit, winters bone, Haywire, crouching tiger hidden dragon,Sicario, atomic blonde, Hanna the witch part 1 subversion. Trust me I can go for days. Thing is I like how you don't say we shouldn't have men action heroes when there are plenty of bad action movies with a male as the lead. Your solution is dumb. You can't just say hey I think we need better female action heroes. It's there shouldn't be any. Nice logic.
shareThe thing is, bad action movies with male leads are actually cool. Why? Because men are simply built for the job. They're designed to be warriors, and designed to fight, construct, and kill. Women are not.
That's why a ridiculous movie starring a capable man is at least MORE believable than a ridiculous movie starring a less capable woman.
Commando, Joshua Tree, or any Rambo movie would have been an absolute disaster if they starred a female. Whereas, a movie like Interceptor, Sentinelle, or the movie Kate all would have been better with proper male leads in them because it's easy to believe that premise with a right proper male lead.
There are no female mercenary assassins in real life because of how hard that line of work is and the high-skill ceiling required to get good at it. Men do it all the time because... ding, ding, ding, they are built for it. Usually once men come out of military service they go into the line of work as being a PMC. You almost never hear about women joining PMC outfits for obvious reasons.
Yeah no. I couldn't give a shit less if you think men are more built for it. I judge it based on how it's crafted. Kill bill is a way better made film than any of those piece of shit Expendables movies.
Not to me. I don't hold action heroes to realistic standards. Plenty of male action heroes defy reality. That isn't exclusive to female action heroes.
Again no. It's how it's crafted.
Movies are not based on real life. We watch movies lots of times to escape. You had no issue accepting Catwoman on returns surviving 4 consecutive gunshots. Your excuse is well it's a superhero fantasy. Yet with a predator film in Prey you hold that to realism. Even though no predator creature exists in real life so that is a fantasy as well.
Yeah no. I couldn't give a shit less if you think men are more built for it.
Evolutionary science of physiological differentiation between the two genders would like to have a word with you, ace.
Kill bill is a way better made film than any of those piece of shit Expendables movies.
Now you're just being ridiculous. Expendables 2 is a far more enjoyable film and well paced with good action beats.
Not to me. I don't hold action heroes to realistic standards.
You don't have to, but there is a required suspension of disbelief to keep the audience engaged, and that can only be achieved with some modicum of believability, which almost all female action leads lack.
Movies are not based on real life.
Actually, a fair few of them are, ace.
Yet with a predator film in Prey you hold that to realism. Even though no predator creature exists in real life so that is a fantasy as well.
Nope, it's considered sci-fi thriller/horror. Predator's COULD exist in real life, and they did -- up until Prey -- have a grounded depiction in some form of believability.... just until a teenage girl was able to rip out a mandible with her bare hands. Have you ever tried defanging an animal with your bare hands? Give it a try, ace.
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Good thing movies aren't based on revolutionary science or physiological differences huh? Movies would like to have a word with you since they aren't based on realism wise one.
Lol no. Kill Bill is better made in every aspect and has left its impact on culture. Kill bill is rated higher with critics and the mass majority of people. Expendables is a piece of shit.
The success of kill bill, mad max fury road prove you wrong. Audiences seem to like those just fine. This is a you problem.
Yep but not as a whole now are they? Which means not all of them need to be shackled by the rules of reality. Which we are specifically talking about action films. Which most action films aren't based on reality.
No they could t exist in real life. If so go ahead and find one and send me a picture dipshit.
Movies would like to have a word with you since they aren't based on realism wise one.
Not all, but they need to be grounded in their own world's rules to make people suspend their disbelief. Just like Lord of the Rings was a fantasy film, but the hobbits weren't judo-throwing 100kg orcs, because they kept the film grounded.
Kill Bill is better made in every aspect and has left its impact on culture. Kill bill is rated higher with critics and the mass majority of people. Expendables is a piece of shit.
Expendables is a collaboration of actors who come from films that have had waaaaay bigger impacts than Kill Bill.
Which most action films aren't based on reality.
They are based enough on reality that people need to be able to believe the premise and the hero being capable of doing what they do, and most times the females are not convincing.
No they could t exist in real life. If so go ahead and find one and send me a picture dipshit.
Have you explored the billions of stars out there?
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Not all, but they need to be grounded in their own world's rules to make people suspend their disbelief. Just like Lord of the Rings was a fantasy film, but the hobbits weren't judo-throwing 100kg orcs, because they kept the film grounded.
And different worlds adhere to different rules. Eowyn in LOTR took down one of the strong warriors in Return of the king. Yet you take no issue with that?
Expendables is a collaboration of actors who come from films that have had waaaaay bigger impacts than Kill Bill.
Notice how you are talking about films outside of the Expendables? Notice how I actually am talking about Kill Bill vs Expendables? I do not need to reference an actor's star power in outside projects to boost up Kill Bill. Kill Bill is higher rated than any Expendables film by critics and the mass majority. Kill Bill had a bigger cultural influence than Expendables did as well. This is embarrassing. I feel like I am debating an 8 year old.
They are based enough on reality that people need to be able to believe the premise and the hero being capable of doing what they do, and most times the females are not convincing.
Lol notice again the shift? No what matters is if the hero is convincing. Kill Bill among many other films do this very well.
Have you explored the billions of stars out there?
False equivalence. Until there is sufficient enough evidence to support there being one of those out there I am free to dismiss it. The burden of proof is on you, not the other way around. By this logic I could claim Xenomorphs exist since you have not been in space.
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And different worlds adhere to different rules. Eowyn in LOTR took down one of the strong warriors in Return of the king. Yet you take no issue with that?
Actually yeah, because she had her arm crushed in the book, and that didn't happen in the movie, and she got in a lucky hit in the book. She didn't actually manage to overpower him like in the movie.
Notice how you are talking about films outside of the Expendables?
Yes, and those movies inspired Expendables 2 in particular, which is why it's the best out of the franchise.
Lol notice again the shift? No what matters is if the hero is convincing. Kill Bill among many other films do this very well.
Few films starring women in action roles do this well.
By this logic I could claim Xenomorphs exist since you have not been in space.
They could. That's the point. We haven't even set foot on one planet in our own solar system, and there are countless solar systems with countless planets out there. Who is to say that there are not other species out there? We haven't even discovered all of the living organisms on this planet! share
We are going off the movie. In the movie she overpowered him.
What inspired it means nothing. As it stands kill bill is ranked way higher than any Expendables movie. Choke on it.
Does not matter if they could. As it stands I'm within my bounds to say they don't exist. Once you prove that they do get back to me.
We are going off the movie. In the movie she overpowered him.
Yeah and that was obvious feminist bollocks.
What inspired it means nothing. As it stands kill bill is ranked way higher than any Expendables movie. Choke on it.
It means everything -- what inspired the Expendables is what inspired every young boy to become the best man he could be; to reach beyond the limits of his capabilities to achieve what no other man could; to excel where hopes for greatness seemed impossible and winning seemed but a distant dream. They inspired a generation of youth to become masculine men, and laid the foundation for movies like Kill Bill to even exist. Choke... on... that.... ace.
Does not matter if they could. As it stands I'm within my bounds to say they don't exist.
Sure, but the rules of probability aren't in your favour, ace.
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No it was not. If male action heroes can do physically impossible tasks it should be ok for women to as well.
Nope it means nothing at all. What inspired a movie has no bearing on it's quality. What matters is if it is executed well. Martial arts movies is what had on impact and inspired Kill Bill. Asian movies which predate any of your action heroes. As it stands Kill Bill is ranked higher than any expendables film, choke on it.
Oh they actually do. Once you find a real life predator creature get back to me. Until then stay silent and enjoy the education you are getting.
No it was not. If male action heroes can do physically impossible tasks it should be ok for women to as well.
Except they do a lot of physically possible things as well, something that female action heroes do not and cannot do.
What inspired a movie has no bearing on it's quality. What matters is if it is executed well.
It does when that's what the movie is attempting to reference. It's why movies based on true stories are generally criticised as good or bad based on how true to real life they are, or how biographies get certain details right/wrong based on what happened in real life, since what inspired those movies DO have a bearing on the quality of the film and how well it's executed.
Oh they actually do.
There are more stars in our universe than grains of sand; so that probability is not in your favour since it takes very little for life to be made possible on a planet/moon.
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Irrelevant. The point stands if male action heroes are aloud to defy reality then women action heroes can as well. Use the excuse for Eowyn you used to get past Pfeiffer's Catwoman surviving 4 consecutive gunshots wounds and you should be fine. By your logic Kravitz is the superior Catwoman. After all she is more realistic.
Nope irrelevant bullshit. Kil Bill is rated higher than any Expendables film. Choke on it.
Once you prove that a predator creature exists in real life get back to me. Until then enjoy your education.
Irrelevant. The point stands if male action heroes are aloud to defy reality then women action heroes can as well.
No it does not stand. We afford the suspension of disbelief based on possibility, probability and propensity. For instance, most people were somewhat able to suspend their disbelief in The Quiet Place when the mother was giving birth because we could believe that for the sake of her family she would attempt to scream as little as possible when birthing her child while the fireworks were going off.
With male action heroes it's very similar where they engage in acts of heightened reality, but still do many things that are believable. For instance, everything Jackie Chan did he did without a stunt double or special effects, so none of it was fantasy at all, thus proving you wrong.
Use the excuse for Eowyn you used to get past Pfeiffer's Catwoman surviving 4 consecutive gunshots wounds and you should be fine.
Batman Return's fantasy ruleset was not the same as The Lord of the Rings.
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Nope the pont stands. Male action heroes do things that aren't realistic as well.
I never said Jackie Chan wasn't amazing. However there are things action heroes can't do.
Tell me another character in Burton's Batman films that survived 4 consecutive gunshots. Oh and thanks for that. Which means not every female action heroin is bound by the rules of male action heroes in different properties. When you find yourself in a hole quit digging.
Nope the pont stands. Male action heroes do things that aren't realistic as well.
You're begging the question here, ace.
I never said Jackie Chan wasn't amazing. However there are things action heroes can't do.
Still begging the question.
Tell me another character in Burton's Batman films that survived 4 consecutive gunshots. Oh and thanks for that.
Batman. share
Nope I'm not.
Nope I'm not.
In a kevlar costume. Catwoman's costume is not bulletproof nor is it kevlar. So let's try it again. Which character survived 4 consecutive gunshots? Also I looked at the clip again it wasn't 4 lol. So this would mean Catwoman is stronger than Batman correct? I mean after all her costume isn't bulletproof.
Nope I'm not.
Yes, you are. What are the things that male action heroes do that aren't realistic?
Nope I'm not.
Yes, because Jackie Chan is a male action hero.
So this would mean Catwoman is stronger than Batman correct? I mean after all her costume isn't bulletproof.
She had nine lives -- as per Tim Burton's fantastical take on Catwoman. Her durability did not mean she was stronger than Batman. share
I've told you this already. Find me a guy that can kill 40 people at once in a consecutive fight with his bare hands. All at once. That's not realistic.
I love Jackie Chan. What's your point? I also love Michelle Yeaoh.
And having nine lives is realistic? This makes her stronger than Batman lol. So we don't hold Burton's Catwoman to realism but we hold other fantasy female action heroes to realism huh? Your hypocrisy really knows no bounds huh?
I've told you this already. Find me a guy that can kill 40 people at once in a consecutive fight with his bare hands. All at once. That's not realistic.
Where did this happen?
I love Jackie Chan. What's your point?
He's a male action hero where everything he does is doable (and has been done) in real life, thus proving you wrong.
And having nine lives is realistic?
No one said it was. You can obviously watch Tim Burton's Batman and see that it is high-fantasy. share
Lookup many action films where a guy takes on a full room full of people without taking a single blow. I love Jet Li but in Fist of Legend he takes on what has to be at least 20-30 guys in the dojo. He does not take a single blow in that fight scene. Is it well choreographed? Yes! However you are not fighting a room full of 20-30 people all against you at once and taking no blow. Not realistic.
What did I say he could not do physically? Go ahead and cite where I said what he could not do physically.
Funny had this been Kravitz Catwoman I guarantee this would not be your excuse. You like Pfeiffer's Catwoman so she gets a pass. Kravitz Catwoman is actually more realistic. Also it does not matter if it is fantasy you still hold them to realistic standards. Kill Bill is not based in realism. Neither are any of the Predator films. Yet you hold them to realistic standards. If you want to do that it needs to apply to Pfieffer's Catwoman as well.
However you are not fighting a room full of 20-30 people all against you at once and taking no blow. Not realistic.
They fought him one at a time, so it's entirely possible to takeon that many. Donnie Yen fought eight guys at once and hospitalised them all because they harassed his girlfriend:
https://nextshark.com/donnie-yen-sent-8-men-hospital-harassing-girlfriend-club
That's only two less guys than what he beat up in the Ip Man dojo scene. So yes, it's slightly exaggerated but still very possible.
Show me a story where a woman hospitalised eight men using her bare hands? Don't worry, ace, I know you will never find that story.
What did I say he could not do physically?
So you're admitting men in real life can do what they do in action films? Thanks for conceding that point.
Also it does not matter if it is fantasy you still hold them to realistic standards.
It's fantasy with its own rulesets that it follows, which is why it gets a pass.
Kill Bill is not based in realism. Neither are any of the Predator films. Yet you hold them to realistic standards.
Because Predator set up realistic rules in the first film, and Prey abandoned those rules for feminist propaganda.
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8 is not 30. There were not only 8 in that fight scene. You have no footage of that incident. Second I bet cash money he took some blows. And even so that is not as many people as Jet Li took on in Fist of Legend. So nope you still failed here bud.
Then this applies to female action heroes as well.
Nope a predator creature does not exist in real life. So nope it did not.
8 is not 30.
It's 8 more than what any woman could muster with her bare hands.
Second I bet cash money he took some blows
Maybe, but the guy is lightning fast and trained in all different types of martial arts.
To hospitalise 8 guys by yourself requires immense skill regardless and disproves your point that men in real life can't do what's done in action films.
Then this applies to female action heroes as well.
Only if there's a basis of them doing it in real life.
Nope a predator creature does not exist in real life. So nope it did not.
Gotta venture the universe to find out first, ace. share
It doesn't matter. No one is denying men are physically superior. If men can defy reality in movies then so can women.
Never said a guy could not take multiple opponents. I said you are not taking a room full of 20+ people without taking a single blow. Don't twist words I know you are losing the debate but try harder.
There is no basis of a guy taking 20+ people without taking a blow yet we accept it in action movies. So yeah bullshit.
Not how burden of proof works. I'm within my rights to say those creatures don't exist in reality. The burden of proof is on you to prove it not me. I could use this same logic with women and throw it back at you. Well you haven't researched every fight on earth on this planet. Therefore it's possible a woman whooped a man in a fight. What would you say then to me? You would say prove it. This applies to your bullshit predator excuse. If one exists prove it. Otherwise you are full of shit. Do you need to research every fight in order to make your claim? No, therefore I don't need to research the universe to say a predator creature doesn't exist.
It doesn't matter.
It does, because context matters. A man beating up eight men simultaneously in a movie is not fantasy; I just linked to you a story of Donnie Yen -- a movie actor no less -- doing it in real life. I asked you for any link -- any proof -- that a woman has been able to beat up multiple men in real life with her bare fists and you have yet to provide any proof of such.
So it does matter, because we see in movies all the time women beating up multiple men with their bare hands, yet that has never happened in real life.
I said you are not taking a room full of 20+ people without taking a single blow.
And I retorted that in your example of Jet Li, the karate students were fighting him honourably one at a time, so it actually is quite possible.
I'm within my rights to say those creatures don't exist in reality.
You're within your right to say they don't exist on Earth, at which point you would be correct. But to speak for a universe none of us have explored is speaking out of turn based on nothing.
Therefore it's possible a woman whooped a man in a fight. What would you say then to me?
The laws of probability come into play... again. Since men and women are the only human mammals on Earth, and since we've been here for countless eons, there should be some kind of record somewhere of a woman beating up multiple men with her bare fists, especially as means of recording history became available. So you should be able to find some proof of a woman beating up multiple men in hand-to-hand combat if it were possible because -- unlike a Predator -- humans do exist here on Earth, and have been fighting since the dawn of time. So have at it, ace. share
No it doesn't. I didn't say 8 men I said fighting 20 plus people. Don't twist my words. No guy can do that in real life and take no blows. None of these action movies are claiming to be real. Provide proof something like Kill Bill is stating that it's realistic. If not it can bend reality that's what film making is. We can tell whatever story a film maker wants.
That's just it. In a real life fight if it's a brawl of 20 plus people no one is going to wait patiently for their turn. Find me a clip of a street fight of 20 plus guys fighting one person and that one guy taking not a single blow. I will wait.
I am talking about earth and you know it. Don't be an idiot. On earth those creatures don't exist.
Probability comes into play? Ok then even if a guy can take multiple opponents it isn't likely now is it? Possible but if you go off odds most of the time a guy facing 20 plus opponents is going to lose. I never said a woman could take multiple men. I said you haven't researched every fight on earth. So is it possible for a woman to beat a man in a fight? One on one? I don't want to hear the odds, answer me is it possible?
I didn't say 8 men I said fighting 20 plus people. Don't twist my words. No guy can do that in real life and take no blows.
Hahaha, look at how you are pushing the goalpost. Going from eight to 20 people, and then going from 20 people who aren't taking any blows. This is because not only have I proven that a single guy can beat up close to ten guys at once, I also linked that video of the guy fighting 30 guys at once (though he did take blows). But the point still stands: there is a BASIS for men doing similar feats in real life that they do in movies. You can't even provide one example of a woman fighting ONE man in a real life street fight and winning.
Find me a clip of a street fight of 20 plus guys fighting one person and that one guy taking not a single blow. I will wait.
You know that is ridiculous, but here is a clip of a guy fighting five guys at once and guess what? He take ZERO blows and they fight him one at a time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUwleIBIhw8
Here's another of a guy taking on half a dozen guys and knocking them out as they approach him one at a time:
https://youtu.be/o594yiPatDM
Ok then even if a guy can take multiple opponents it isn't likely now is it?
Check the videos above.
I never said a woman could take multiple men. I said you haven't researched every fight on earth. So is it possible for a woman to beat a man in a fight? One on one? I don't want to hear the odds, answer me is it possible?
In a street fight? Likely not. But feel free to link me a video of a street fight of a woman beating up a man. I can just keep rolling out examples showing that most action movies are just slight exaggerations of real life feats that men have accomplished. You still can't find even one real-life example of a woman doing anything remotely close to what they do in the movies.
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I moved nothing. I said no guy can go through 20 plus people without taking a single blow. That was my original statement. That wasn't 30 on the clip you provided that's a lie. Also the fight stopped. It didn't continue and he didn't wipe all of them out. You lie again and I will not be responding anymore. You are losing the debate badly.
Remember I did not say 5. I said 20 plus. See how you have to twist my words?
Again I didn't say a guy could not take multiple people. I said it wasn't likely. Do you comprehend what you read?
I asked if it was possible not likely. Notice how you dodged the question? Action movies aren't light exaggerations they are big exaggerations. What matters is if the story is well crafted. We are not bound by realism for stories that's bullshit.
That wasn't 30 on the clip you provided that's a lie.
This was the clip with 1 vs 30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjtH0_faSyc&pp=ygUUMSB2cyAzMCBzdHJlZXQgZmlnaHQ%3D
The other clips show that even 1 vs however many, people still fight people one at a time, just like in the Jet Li scene in Fist of Legend.
I said no guy can go through 20 plus people without taking a single blow.
it's more likely than a 45kg woman beating up a 90kg man with her bare hands, especially since you can't even provide one example of that happening in real life.
I asked if it was possible not likely.
All things considered fair, no.
Action movies aren't light exaggerations they are big exaggerations.
They're still grounded in some sense of reality, some sense of believability when they are male action heroes. All groundedness and all believability go out the window with female action heroes.
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No that was not 30. Also I said take on 30 without taking a blow.
People don't always attack one at a time. Sometimes but even so you haven't provided evidence of a guy taking 30 people without taking a single blow.
Doesn't matter. You haven't proven a guy can take over 20 at once without taking a single blow.
Nope remember you haven't researched every fight in existence. Remember your logic dumbass.
Nope bullshit.
No that was not 30. Also I said take on 30 without taking a blow.
Think about where you started and where you ended up -- you started with action movies being unrealistic, and then when I proved you wrong you switched to, men can't take on 30 people, and then when I showed one guy did fight 30 people, you switched to they can't fight 30 guys without taking a single blow. You've pushed the goalpost so far you could make a highway out of the football field.
Doesn't matter. You haven't proven a guy can take over 20 at once without taking a single blow.
It does, because I proved a man can take on multiple opponents at once. You can't even prove that one woman can take on one man in a street fight.
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Lol no. My original statement was you are not talking on a room full of 30 people without taking a single blow. You attempted to twist my statement. Tons of movies are not realistic and you say nothing. Bottom line, you are fine with male heroes defying reality but it's unacceptable for a woman hero to do it. That's crap and you know it.
No it doesn't. I never said a man couldn't take multiple opponents. I never made that statement. So have you researched every fight that has taken place on earth?
Tons of movies are not realistic and you say nothing.
Only if they're grounded in enough reality to suspend disbelief, which is not possible with most female led action films.
Bottom line, you are fine with male heroes defying reality but it's unacceptable for a woman hero to do it. That's crap and you know it.
Nope. There is a basis for when men do it. There is no basis for it when women do it.
So have you researched every fight that has taken place on earth?
So you're saying the possibility of a woman beating a man is as likely as a Predator existing in the universe since you've yet to research every planet out there?
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Bullshit. There are many things male action heroes do that is not realistic in the slightest bit. Movies do not need to adhere to reality. That's a standard you have. Artists are free to make anything they want to.
Um no. There are plenty of things male heroes do that there is no basis for. Either realism applies to everyone or no one. You don't get to have it both ways.
Remember you told me a predator creature has a possibility of existing since I haven't researched the universe? So I am applying your logic. Since you haven't researched every fight to have taken place on earth it's possible. Remember you don't go off if it's likely you go off if it's possible. Choke on your own logic.
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Bullshit. There are many things male action heroes do that is not realistic in the slightest bit.
You keep saying this, but I do not think you know what this means. All you could name was that a man fighting 30 people at one time would "take some blows", but you removed the context that Jet Li was mostly fighting these guys one at a time.
Heck even three fencers managed to fight off 50 other fencers for the most part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tmk8AHs5b8&pp=ygUPMyBmZW5jZXJzIHZzIDUw
So once again, it shows that with men, it is possible.
There are plenty of things male heroes do that there is no basis for.
Like what? You keep saying this but always fail to specify examples.
Remember you told me a predator creature has a possibility of existing since I haven't researched the universe? So I am applying your logic.
Ah, great, so you're admitting to the possibility of a Predator. Now you only have problem: we have video footage documentation all over the world, so
surely you should be able to find ONE video from the last 20 years of at least
ONE woman beating a man in hand-to-hand street fight, right? There are plenty
of videos of men beating women in such scenarios, but they're mostly located
on gore sites, which kind of gives you an indication of what the results are
when most women fight men without rules. share
Even with going one at a time. Find me a guy who fights 30 people consecutively without taking a single blow. Then if you remove people attacking one at a time that never happens.
I did specify an example. No guy by himself can beat a room full of 30 people without taking a blow. It's not realistic.
But not every fight has been documented. Which means I can use your logic here. it's possible. See you don't like your bullshit thrown back at you huh?
Even with going one at a time. Find me a guy who fights 30 people consecutively without taking a single blow.
There are no videos of that specific scenario because come on -- you only get that if someone fights an actual dojo. And maybe it has happened, but cameras certainly weren't around. We do see that even faced against seemingly stacked odds, men will still step up to the challenge, even against armoured foes, like here:
https://youtu.be/jGJHgCNDJlI
No woman has ever done that.
I did specify an example. No guy by himself can beat a room full of 30 people without taking a blow. It's not realistic.
And? That seems to be the best you can do to discredit action movies, meanwhile men are still capable of doing similar things on a smaller scale. You can't even link or show one example of a woman doing anything remotely similar on a smaller scale, and that's the problem.
But not every fight has been documented. Which means I can use your logic here. it's possible.
But we can go by what has been documented, and this is usually the results:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/59wXjeARxW4?feature=share share
See I love this. You will state well show me a video of a woman beating a man. Yet when I ask you to show me a clip of a guy taking on 30 people consecutively without taking a blow you say well I don't have footage but it's possible. You see the hypocrisy here? I didn't state a person can't overcome odds, I said no guy is taking 30 people consecutively without taking a blow.
And you can't showcase a guy doing that. There are other things male action heroes for that do that would not be possible in real life. No woman has ever survived 4 consecutive gunshots like Pfeiffer's Catwoman. Yet you accept that because it's a fantasy. Guess what so is kill bill. Why is it acceptable for Pfeiffer's Catwoman to survive that but we hold the bride to realism on Kill Bill?
Then we can go by what's been documented about a predator creature. Based on the results we have nothing to pull from to support that creature existing. Also remember you go buy possibility not odds remember? If we go by odds then the predator creature existing isn't in your favor genius.
You will state well show me a video of a woman beating a man. Yet when I ask you to show me a clip of a guy taking on 30 people consecutively without taking a blow you say well I don't have footage but it's possible. You see the hypocrisy here?
Zero hypocrisy. I provided evidence of one man fighting multiple people in multiple scenarios, and even linked to a source of a man fighting eight men at once. You can't even provide a video source of ONE woman fighting ONE man and beating him in a street fight.
One vs 30 compared to one vs one isn't even comparable, yet you can't even provide evidence for it. Admit it, ace, you've lost this one big time.
Why is it acceptable for Pfeiffer's Catwoman to survive that but we hold the bride to realism on Kill Bill?
Because Tim Burton made it perfectly clear that Pfeiffer's Catwoman was supernatural. Was the Bride/Beatrice supposed to be a supernatural entity?
If we go by odds then the predator creature existing isn't in your favor genius.
Given the billions of stars out there, they actually are in my favour :D
https://www.foxweather.com/earth-space/james-webb-space-telescope-discovery
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That wasn't the stipulation I had. You made up your own. I didn't say a man couldn't fight multiple opponents you idiot. I said he couldn't take 30 people consecutively without taking a single blow. That was the stipulation and you failed to meet it. So no ace you don't get to make up your own stipulation. You failed to meet the stipulation, it's time to own up to that ace.
Kill Bill isn't a realistic film. It's indicated by the fact by its homage to martial arts films which use wire work for physically impossible feats of people defying gravity. Used in films like crouching tiger hidden dragon. Tarantino made that clear. So um no you don't get to use the realism excuse here. If Pfeiffer's Catwoman can be excused for being removed from reality then so can the bride. You lost this debate so badly.
No actually not true. Not when measuring it on earth. Admit it ace you got fucking schooled here. Once you have evidence of a real life predator creature on earth get back to me. Until then I can state the feature doesn't exist. Abd if you say I haven't researched all the stars well you haven't researched every fight on earth. Remember chief your logic.
That wasn't the stipulation I had.
Your stipulation doesn't even apply to most films. You picked one scene out of Fist of Legend to come up with the ridiculous stipulation -- it's not even a common theme in most movies.
Heck, not even Bruce Lee fought 30 guys in any film without being touched, so why are calling for evidence of something real life when it's something that almost never happens in movies?
If Pfeiffer's Catwoman can be excused for being removed from reality then so can the bride.
So are you saying the Bride is a supernatural entity? Because that's why Catwoman survived those shots.
No actually not true. Not when measuring it on earth.
Well that's part of the problem now isn't it? We're still stuck here on Earth and have not set one foot on any other planet, let alone observe other planets in other solar systems. share
Doesn't matter that was the stipulation. You failed to meet it ace.
Is kil Bill based on reality? Yes or no?
Doesn't matter. Once you have proof provide it. Until then shut the hell up.
Doesn't matter that was the stipulation. You failed to meet it ace.
That is special pleading to the umpteenth degree. I already proved men CAN do in real life what is sometimes or oftentimes depicted in male-led action films.
Is kil Bill based on reality? Yes or no?
Obviously not, which then moves to the line of questioning: why are you holding real life men to standards you don't hold women to?
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Nope it's a stipulation you failed to meet ace.
I don't hold men to real life standards. It's why I can enjoy an action film where heroes do physically impossible feats. The difference is you want to pick and choose where realism applies. Kill Bill isn't based on reality.
Therefore her doing physically impossible things is acceptable. The same way Pfeiffer's Catwoman can survive 4 consecutive gunshots. The same way I don't bat an eye when Jet Li takes many opponents without taking a blow or physically defies gravity in an action film. Now if the film is going for realism or it's a documentary then that logic would apply. Most action films aren't going for total realism, that's what makes stories imaginative and fun.
Your education was free today. You lost this debate badly ace.
Nope it's a stipulation you failed to meet ace.
It's a ridiculous one that doesn't even defend your original point, since you had to find an obscure one-off scenario in an attempt to prove your point, which you didn't even do very well, since in that scene Jet Li is mostly fighting those students one at a time. I'm sure Royce Gracie could do the same to a bunch of white belt BJJ practitioners if he went in and aced them one at a time.
The difference is you want to pick and choose where realism applies.
Nope, there's something called suspension of disbelief, and we are unable to do that when we know that the rules within fiction aren't being adhered to, especially if the fiction is remotely trying to take itself seriously.
Most action films aren't going for total realism, that's what makes stories imaginative and fun.
Except they do try to ground many female led action films in some sort of reality, all while defying reality, such as Salt, Peppermint, Ava, Anna, or 355.
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I even gave you leeway to prove it. I said find a guy who fights 30 guys one at a time consecutively who doesn't take a blow. You couldn't meet that stipulation ace.
What are the rules in fiction? Did you seriously just make a stupid statement like that? Batman Returns goes for a dark serious tone. So that must be ruined by pfieffer surviving 4 consecutive gunshots huh? Either realism applies or it doesn't you don't get to pick and choose.
Doesn't matter. That's totally irrelevant. Kill Bill did not go that. It's a work of fantasy fiction just like crouching tiger hidden dragon.
I even gave you leeway to prove it. I said find a guy who fights 30 guys one at a time consecutively who doesn't take a blow. You couldn't meet that stipulation ace.
Dude, that isn't even a common trope in martial arts films. The only one you were able to name was ONE scene from Fist of Legend where he takes on the school of Japanese karate students. Not even Bruce lee fought the karate school without taking a blow in The Chinese Connection, which is why he had to bring out the nun-chucks. So your stipulation doesn't even prove your point -- it's what called an exclusionary fallacy, or the fallacy of the lonely fact.
What are the rules in fiction? Did you seriously just make a stupid statement like that?
What are you talking about? Fictional movies have rules ALL the time. Not everyone in Star Wars has Force powers; that's part of the rules. Not everyone in LotR has magic abilities; that's part of the rules. Not everyone can survive four consecutive gunshots in Batman Returns, only Catwoman because that's part of the rules. ALL fiction have rule-sets based on world-building. It is absurd to not know this.
Doesn't matter. That's totally irrelevant.
It matters and is relevant when that's what your entire argument hinged on. Those movies TRIED being realistic while being steeped in the fantasy of the female action hero, where there is ZERO basis for what they do that has parallels to actions performed by real-life women.
It's a work of fantasy fiction just like crouching tiger hidden dragon.
Kill Bill and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon aren't the movies I named. It shows that you have to keep deferring to fantastical films to buffer your point because you know I'm right, and any movies that attempt to be realistic featuring a female action led are just as fantastical and ridiculous as Kill Bill and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
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Nope I have you a stipulation and you tried to make your own. You failed ace.
And where in kill bill did it establish rules that people have to adhere to reality? It's a fictional movie where stylized action takes place. Notice how you say nothing about jet Li using wire work in his movies to defy gravity. Yet if it's a woman that does it you get upset. In fiction you write your own set of rules. There was no rule in kill bill that stated the film was bound to realism. Just like crouching tiger hidden dragon. Choke on it.
Nope not true. It made it more grounded fantasy that doesn't mean it's trying to be realistic. You are confusing the two. So nope fail again.
You did try and apply realism to kill bill. So now I have you on record lying. We are wrapping this up bud. I'm satisfied with beating your ass in this debate. Have a good one bud.
Nope I have you a stipulation and you tried to make your own. You failed ace.
Based on something that didn't even apply to the films you're criticising. You had to go pick an esoteric stipulation, which kind of proves my point: that majority of the time in most action movies, it's only a slight exaggeration of what men can actually do in real life.
And where in kill bill did it establish rules that people have to adhere to reality?
When they showed people dying from lethal knife/gun wounds.
Notice how you say nothing about jet Li using wire work in his movies to defy gravity. Yet if it's a woman that does it you get upset.
Who said wire-work was a depiction of reality? No one said that but you. That's clearly in the realm of fantasy.
You did try and apply realism to kill bill.
No, I explained that Kill Bill still had grounded rules for its world building, hence how people died from common fatal wounds. share
Doesn't matter. I had a stipulation, you failed to meet it ace.
Then why are people able to defy gravity by floating very high in the air? Is that real? Stupidest thing you could have said. In Star wars it shows people die from lethal rounds and gunshots as well. Is that real?
I never said it was. That's another thing male action heroes often do that isn't realistic. It's fine if a man does that but a woman can't do it. That's your logic.
People in fantasy die from common fatal wounds. That doesn't mean it's trying to be real. Your bullshit is dismissed ace.
Doesn't matter. I had a stipulation, you failed to meet it ace.
If it doesn't matter then it completely diminishes the crux of your entire point. Congrats,
you just played yourself, ace.
In Star wars it shows people die from lethal rounds and gunshots as well. Is that real?
As I said, movies need rules to be believable, and Star Wars had very specific rules.
That's another thing male action heroes often do that isn't realistic. It's fine if a man does that but a woman can't do it.
Because most things men do in movies have a basis for their actions in real life.
People in fantasy die from common fatal wounds. That doesn't mean it's trying to be real.
It's called worldbuilding logistics. share
Nope I had a stipulation you could t meet, so you decided to try and make your own. You failed ace.
And people still died from gunshots and cuts. So by your logic that makes it realistic.
Not when it comes to defying gravity and doing wirework. Yet you say nothing about that. However if a woman does it it's an issue.
Yep but it doesn't mean it's real. Kill bill is not realistic ace.
Nope I had a stipulation you could t meet, so you decided to try and make your own. You failed ace.
And hilariously, it's not even a stipulation that coincides with your original point.
Not when it comes to defying gravity and doing wirework. Yet you say nothing about that. However if a woman does it it's an issue.
If they're defying gravity and using wirework, then it's fantasy.
Yep but it doesn't mean it's real. Kill bill is not realistic ace.
That was your argument not mine. share
Oh yeah it does. Which is why you triedg to create your own stipulation.
Which in Kill Bill they are using wirework and defying gravity. Therefore it's fantasy ace.
No you tried to say it was realistic..
Oh yeah it does. Which is why you triedg to create your own stipulation.
No, I asked for examples and the only thing you could come up with was one specific example and then tried putting a ridiculous stipulation on it that didn't even really apply to the movie, since Jet Lie's character got hit a lot in that film, especially towards the end.
Which in Kill Bill they are using wirework and defying gravity. Therefore it's fantasy ace.
So then you agree that the only time female action leads can be in halfway decent movies is when they are complete fantasy? Glad you came around to my point of view. share
In that fight Jet Li took no blows. I was referencing that fight not the entire film. So no you attempted to move the goal post again.
You originally tried to apply realism to films that films that wre never trying to be realistic. I'm glad I go lt your confession that Kill Bill is a fantasy. So that means Kravitz Catwoman can be considered a good character because she's in a fantasy film lol.
In that fight Jet Li took no blows. I was referencing that fight not the entire film. So no you attempted to move the goal post again.
So even you admit that the film had Jet Li taking blows and that the movie itself actually defied some of your claims.
So that means Kravitz Catwoman can be considered a good character because she's in a fantasy film lol.
Where was it stated that The Batman is a fantasy film? Did the director or Warner Bros., state that? share
I was specifically referencing that scenario. Nobody can do that. You failed to meet that stipulation. See how you move the goal post? I didn't say that in that film Jet Li took no blows. I said in that fight he didn't. So no actually my statement was consistent.
Batman is not a real character. There is an element of fantasy no matter how you adapt that character. You accept fantasy in Batman Returns yet nowhere else? Did Tim Burton or Warner Bros specifically state that returns was s fantasy film?
I was specifically referencing that scenario. Nobody can do that. You failed to meet that stipulation. See how you move the goal post? I didn't say that in that film Jet Li took no blows. I said in that fight he didn't. So no actually my statement was consistent.
Which is ridiculous, because you had to single out a single scene to try to prove your point, because the rest of the movie disproves your point.
You accept fantasy in Batman Returns yet nowhere else? Did Tim Burton or Warner Bros specifically state that returns was s fantasy film?
It's literally labeled on IMDB as a fantasy film. The Dark Knight is not labeled as a fantasy film.
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>It's literally labeled on IMDB as a fantasy film. The Dark Knight is not labeled as a fantasy film.
IMDB genres are mostly nonsense dude. Just a detail. Anyone can add or remove genres. It's a shit system.
Doesn't matter, that was the stipulation and you failed to meet it. You attempted to make up your own. You failed ace. How does the rest of the movie disprove my point? I can point to wire work used in fist of legend where gravity is defied also.
Anytime it's a Batman film, there is a realm of fantasy involved. Period. We aren't talking about IMDb, you again moved the goal post. I thought you said Warner brothers and the director?
Doesn't matter, that was the stipulation and you failed to meet it.
And you failed to provide ONE-- just ONE example of a woman beating up a man in real life in a street fight. So it makes ALL female led-action movies even more implausible than the cherry-picked scenarios you are stuck on. How do you reconcile that, ace?
Anytime it's a Batman film, there is a realm of fantasy involved.
There is a difference between a movie having fantasy elements, and being a fantasy film. share
I never said a woman could. Again you attempt to move the goal post. I said you hold female action heroes to realism but you don't do it for males. That was what I said ace.
Again moving the goal post. So does a Batman film have fantasy elements? If so that means it doesn't have to follow realism ace.
I never said a woman could. Again you attempt to move the goal post. I said you hold female action heroes to realism but you don't do it for males.
Because -- as I said -- there is precedent for men doing those things. What men do in movies is an exaggeration based on what they do in real life. There is no basis for what female action heroes do in the movies because they've NEVER done those things in real life. That's the difference.
Again moving the goal post. So does a Batman film have fantasy elements?
Burton's Batman films are fantasy films; some Batman films have fantasy elements.
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No male action hero has defied gravity or taken on a room of 30 people without taking a single blow. So no there is no basis for a guy doing that. Bullshit!
Which means with fantasy elements it's not based on realism.
No male action hero has defied gravity or taken on a room of 30 people without taking a single blow.
And no real life woman has ever beat a man in hand-to-hand street fighting combat. So at least other feats of male action heroes have a basis; NONE of the feats of modern female action heroes have a basis in real life. share
hand-to-hand street fighting combat.
LMAO...WHICH STREET?
No basis when it comes to what I stated. Therefore if it's ok for a guy to defy reality like that it's ok for a woman.
shareTherefore if it's ok for a guy to defy reality like that it's ok for a woman.
Guys defy reality less than women, which is why no one takes female action heroes seriously. share
Doesn't matter. Movies don't need to be based on reality.
And no plenty of female action heroes are iconic, loved and taken seriously. Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, the bride, Trinity, Furiosa etc. just because you dislike female action heroes does it mean the world does. You don't speak for the rest of the world only yourself ace.
And no plenty of female action heroes are iconic, loved and taken seriously.
As I mentioned before, none of them are in movies remotely as popular or as recognized as their male action hero counterparts when it comes to realistic physicality. share
Ah yes, because Tomb Raider famously did poorly. Aliens, worthless. Sarah Conner in Terminator, no-one knows who she is.
Alice in Resident Evil. Trinity in Matrix. Kill Bill. Wonder Woman. Nikita. Killing Eve.
quick and the dead
shareI watched a little bit of SNL last night. First of all, the show is tired, it is really time for Lorne Michaels to give it up. Anyway, Dakota hosted. I guess Dakota is a big star now. I don't know, I don't get it. She doesn't do anything for me.
shareThe only reason SNL still exists is because it hss no competition in it's timeslot. The ratings are worse year after year, but it's just enough to keep squeaking by.
shareWell you may be right. The show is dreadful. I think it could still work though. Meaning the SNL format. It just needs some new blood. I had heard Tina Fey was in talks to take over. One thought that was a great idea. The thing about SNL is it's always up and down. It's definitely down now. Possibly down for the count. I guess we'll see.
shareAnd also gay
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