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a conspiracy of adults to corrupt children


For its entire duration I was watching this film with a big frown on my face. This film felt SO WRONG! It may be a testament to how decadent and perverted the American Way has become since the seventies, that it is thought artistic when a nine year old is preparing smack and helping someone shoot up, or place it in such overtly sexual and peadophilic situations. How can her folks let her be in a movie that she is not allowed to see until she is sixteen? Any parent who thinks about this for a moment would agree. Filmmakers shouldn't be allowed to drag someone of this age into this kind of horror, even if it is all fake and make believe, just for the satisfaction of their own egocentrical 'artistic' needs.
I thought I was a big Gilliam fan but obviously I am mistaken. It really is about time he retired, along with the rest of his generation of filmmakers.

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Since we're on the subject of the "American Way" let me tell you how wrong you are in saying the "American Way" is "decadent" and "perverted"; it would be good if it were. The real American way is conformity, we are told what is right and wrong for our children, we go to great lengths for children, making sure they don't see this, hear that, get hurt or experience anything naughty. No one ever stops to think for themselves what's right or wrong for kids, they go on these preconceived notions and don't question anything.

What's wrong if this girl participated in this movie? Who should they use instead? A midget? Wouldn't that be silly? It's just another situation of what's decidedly right and wrong for children. If a child is mature enough than it should be fine. If they're mature enough to distinguish between reality and make-believe than they can take anything the media can throw at them. And what's that age anyways? It had to of been six for me.

And there are no "paedophilic situations" as you say. You mean Dickens? For one thing he's retarded, he's just as innocent as Jeliza.

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I think a lot of times some people do not know how exactly the film process works. I'm sure someone explained to her what she was doing with the smack in the beginning. Sadly this is the case for some children in real life. There is nothing wrong with Gilliam addressing this in his film. Also, she filmed this movie one scene at a time and a lot of the effects are added in afterwards in post-production.


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"may be a testament to how decadent and perverted the American Way has become since the seventies,"

During which time Mr. Gilliam spent most of his time in England just as he does now.

"that it is thought artistic when a nine year old is preparing smack and helping someone shoot up, or place it in such overtly sexual and peadophilic situations."

The mere fact of showing any of those things isn't inherently artistic, it's what you do with them. Name me a movie that you think is artistic and I will break it down to the plot events and you tell me if the film is "artistic" or not based just on the events that happen in the film. For instance "The Graduate", I could easily say: well what's artistic about a young dude having sex with an older woman? Or I could say about "The Maltese Falcon", what's artistic about a guy looking for a stupid statue of a bird? Events in the movie aren't artistic, it's what the director does with the events.

"How can her folks let her be in a movie that she is not allowed to see until she is sixteen?"

Johnny Depp doesn't even watch his own films, lots of actors don't watch their own films. What, do you think that people act in movies so they can watch themselves on screen?

"Any parent who thinks about this for a moment would agree. Filmmakers shouldn't be allowed to drag someone of this age into this kind of horror, even if it is all fake and make believe, just for the satisfaction of their own egocentrical 'artistic' needs."

So now you've become some kind of film fascist, you're basically saying that no one should make a movie like this. You're saying this movie should not have been made. Who are you to decide? What, do you think they should have used a midget and dressed her up to look like a child? Because otherwise it would be impossible to tell this story. Besides which it is an extremely naive point of view, completely lacking in knowledge about film-making. This actress didn't see any of that stuff. You see the scene where she goes into Dell's taxidermy shack and watches Dell having sex with that guy? The little girl wouldn't have seen ANY of that, it's called a cut-away as far as I know. It's just editing making you think that she's actually there. Yes you see her preparing a shot of heroin, but as far as the actress knows it could be a Vitamin-B shot.

Even if that wasn't the case I think it's a silly argument. I've heard the same kind of argument with regards to Isabella Rossellini in "Blue Velvet" and various actresses in "A Clockwork Orange". In all these cases critics will say "oh, the director has embarassed the actress" when in reality it's the critic himself or herself who's embarassed.

And then on still another level I question your use of "egocentrical" and not just on the grammar front. Art is inherently non ego-centric. And if I take it right you're saying that even if you believed the movie was incredible it still wouldn't justify putting the actress in these situations you imagine her to be so traumatized by. Art is only "make believe" for kids, that's their shelter. For Gilliam this is far more important than "make believe". You make it sound very petty, as if the art itself wasn't worth much of anything but a little laugh and a little fun. I seriously wonder if you realize just how potentially powerful the cinematic art is, when you use words like "make believe" and "fake" with regards to a film story.

"I thought I was a big Gilliam fan but obviously I am mistaken. It really is about time he retired, along with the rest of his generation of filmmakers."

Yeah obviously you are mistaken, because most of the Gilliam fans I've talked to agree with me that this is his best film since "Fear and Loathing" and arguably since "Brazil." Let me guess, is your favorite Gilliam film "Twelve Monkeys"? It seems like you probably prefer films that aren't challenging.

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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Wow. I've read some ill thought pretnentious arguments based on the most lewd specualtion on IMDB but this easily takes the biscuit.

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Have you ever known mentally deranged or drug addicts who have children. To me, Gilliam was pointing out how crazy an alternate reality can be for an unlucky child. I hope some messed up adults viewed this movie and thought twice about what they are doing to their kids.

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I think the film is a masterpiece that ranks with the likes of Pan's Labyrinth, Paperhouse and Mirrormask, highlighting the worlds children retreat into in stressful, difficult situations that they cannot comprehend properly. I think that this film has got a lot of people's backs up as they don't like seeing this perspective, and I think this is why this film succeeds so well. It makes you think!

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In my opinion, it doesn't matter if a film makes you feel good or bad. Either one is a good thing. David Lynch for example. As long as it makes you feel, something, in a powerful way, then it's a winner.

Your statement about "The American Way" I think shows people how you think and how far away you are from the American way of life. I don't think to many people thought the way you did when they saw this movie. But, that's also what makes films like this great. They make a lot of people feel a lot of different things.

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Children of this age might actually be much smarter than their brain dead parents would ever imagine.

"American way"...f-ck that. Gilliam even gave up his US citizenship for, well, obvious reasons.

And to add to an earlier comment on this thread, Gilliam is a unique film maker for our time not only because he has balls, but that he also has imagination - which really is a rarity these days. I find it totally incredible what he managed to accomplish with such almost nonexistent budget, compensating for the financial shortcomings with deploying, yes, exactly - imagination.

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To the OP: I think you missed the point of the film entirely. Gilliam is not promoting the type of behavior seen in this film. Quite the opposite, actually. I thought this was a beautiful, and seriously misunderstood film about the creativity of youth. It accurately portrayed the incredible imagination we all have as children, and which some of us are miraculously able to carry with us into adulthood.

I may be wrong in saying this, but it sounds like you are promoting censorship. Do you feel that the real world shouldn't be portrayed in films? There are people out there who put their children in situations such as the one in this film, and it's horrifying. If you don't believe that this stuff happens in life then, to quote Brian Cox (as Robert McKee), "you don't know *beep* about life!"

I found your post ignorant and disgusting. As a filmmaker, I find it offensive that you would try to tell an entire medium of artists what they should and shouldn't be "allowed" to do. Censorship doesn't just mean you get to see your taste in films made, it means that someone else decides what is right and wrong. What if that someone happens to disagree with your personal opinions and beliefs? That would mean that your beliefs would be deemed as wrong and not allowed to appear in films.

I doubt that is what you want to see happen. I'm sorry if this post is mean-spirited, but I was deeply offended by your original post.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2100086/
http://www.slateofmind.com

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