Should they reboot this?


And do a version that is actually respectful to the source material?

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For the most part, I think these adaptations were respectful. They leave stuff out, but that's not the same thing. Why do you think that they were disrespectful?

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They were totally respectful. The only people who seem to think otherwise are those who can tolerate no deviation from the books and who just want an audio-visual facsimile.

Should we reboot the Lord of the Rings? No. The movies aren't even that old and are still EXCELLENT watches, especially Fellowship.

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That's how I feel, as well, but I was wondering if the OP had some reason I might have missed.

One of the worst, least respectful things in the Hobbit trilogy comes at the end. When they change Gandalf's final speech about the prophecies into a shoehorned connection/ ominous statement leading into The Lord of the Rings. It was unnecessary and missed major religious/spiritual themes that Tolkien put into his work. I have a feeling that most viewers took no notice. So, it's possible that I missed something, and I'm curious.

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The Hobbit may be a different matter. I read The Hobbit once, years ago, but didn't remember enough to compare it to the films. I have heard though that they deviate from the book significantly, and perhaps are a better case of unfaithfulness than the LOTR trilogy. The bigger sin, regardless, in my opinion, is that those films just aren't particularly good.

In fact, I just watched the Hobbit trilogy for the first time a about three weeks ago. My first try I bailed after the first movie because I just wasn't that into it. The second film is probably the best.

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"The bigger sin, regardless, in my opinion, is that those films just aren't particularly good."

Agreed. Deviances and dalliances from the source would have been acceptable had the films been better, but they were very lackluster, meandering, and unfocused. I've read The Hobbit several times (as well as the Rings books) and the bulk of the deviation is spent with all the added material, bloating it for three films' worth of "story".

The tone was also all over the place. They were really big disappointments to me as a huge Tolkien nerd, as somebody who dearly loved the Rings films, and as somebody who appreciates wonderful stories of all sorts. Plus, they wasted so much talent. McKellen and Freeman are terrific performers and so perfect for the roles. This hit home so hard for me in the final scenes of the third film. McKellen and Freeman share a silent scene where Gandalf cleans his pipe after the battle. So much passes between them of the futility of it all, the despair, the adrenaline, the victory and loss, and Bilbo is lost and wants guidance, and Gandalf basically shrugs. "Nothing to do but get back to the mundane," he seems to say. And it's a perfect moment because it's about the characters and the actors - simple, basic, clean storytelling which was gobbled up and buried under so much extraneous junk throughout the overstuffed trilogy.

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The one thing i miss in all the movies is the display of the rings abilities besides invisibility, it's not just a drug that turns you into a Gollum, it can do other amazing things as well. The animated version did a better job with this.

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These films were as respectful to the source material as films can get. Translating over a thousand pages of story to a few hours of film absolutely necessitates some editing and condensing, that can't be avoided in the feature film format. (But if HBO turns it into a miniseries, that may change.)

Anyway, the main reason that LOTR shouldn't be rebooted is that "THE HOBBIT" NEEDS TO BE REDONE FIRST.

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Agreed. LOTR still holds up as a great trilogy, but the Hobbit was so bloated and really could use a reboot. perhaps just 1 movie would do it justice.

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Well I don't consider LOTR to be a trilogy and neither did Tolkein, it's just one story that was broken up into three pieces, you can do that with any film. But yes the film had problems as there are so many things that just don't make sense:

1) The film never explains why Denethor was so crazy, it made sense in the book but no sense in the movie
2) The romance between Eowyn and Faramir came out of nowhere but if you read the book it makes sense
3) Legolas says the Stars are veiled yet I can see plenty of stars in the background, just bad writing
4) The entire subplot with Arwyn was beyond unnecessary, it should have been given the due attention it was given in the book which was pretty much just one sentence.
5) What Peter Jackson did to the Army of the Dead I will never forgive, it was a complete cop out
6) No Battle of the Shire
7) Merry and Pippin who were a couple of badasses in the book were reduced to comic relief
8) No Tom Bombidail (spelling?)
9) Merry being able to harm the Witch King makes no sense whatsoever yet again if you read the book it does make sense. The way things play out in the movie it literally seems like Eowyn was able to kill the Witch King because of girl power
10) Saurman gets the lamest conclusion out of any villain I have ever seen (and yes to all of you DKR haters I am including Miranda Tate).

And that's just the beginning of this films problems. I guess if this had been a completely original work it would have been decent but it's based on one of the greatest novels ever and turned it into a joke.

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No a joke does not equal the record for the most Oscars ever won for a single film.

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Maybe you should watch the LOTR Extended Editions, THH!

Off the top of my head:

1) Denethor was using his palantir to watch the other seeing stones (they're like communication devices) and Sauron was also using one and driving him slowly mad with paranoia and jealousy of Aragorn, among other things (he even mentions this: "Do you think the eyes of the White Tower are blind?")
2) There is a scene between Eowyn and Faramir in which their romance starts as they're recovering after their ordeals in the Houses of Healing
3) That may just be fancy writing, or maybe the stars in the direction of Mordor from where they are are veiled, and most likely not literally, but that Legolas can't sense what Sauron's motives are - that's what I got from that scene
4) A criticism that can be levelled at the LOTR books is that there are not nearly that many female characters, and I think they expanded Arwen to be the obvious Elvish love interest for Aragorn - what's wrong with that?
5) It is the weakest part of the Battle of Pelennor fields, but something was needed to end the movie battle relatively quickly.
6) No, the Scouring of the Shire was not necessary, as it would've been anticlimactic after the main battles, and besides, we were shown what a Saruman/orc takeover of the Shire would be like in Galadriel's Mirror in FOTR
7) No, I don't believe that for one second, they both had their hero moments and their sufferings - I would say that Gimli and Legolas were reduced to comic relief, especially Gimli
8) Tom Bombadil was a crap character, honestly
9) Merry stabbed the Witch King in the heel with an elvish blade, as I recall - I don't think there was any "girl power" involved at all, although that "I am no man!" exclamation is rather cheesy
10) You obviously did not see the eloquent speech given by Saruman in the Extended Edition, it was brilliant and really closed his and Grima Wormtongue's character arcs

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I shouldn’t have to watch the extended version, the theatrical version shouldn’t have all these plot holes. If I have to watch an extended version or read the book to make sense of it then the film doesn’t stand on its own . One of the many problems this film has is it starts subplots but then it only half asses them so it ends up not making any sense

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I understand your point, but no one is going to release a 4 hour movie into theaters.

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Then they shouldn't have introduced the subplots at all if they didn't have the time to follow through with them. (Denethors insanity, Eowyn/Faramir's romance, etc.) or better yet they should have just not bothered with the whole Arwyn subplot which out of line 1200 pages of book takes up maybe a paragraph. Yes I am all for strong female characters but this subplot was very poorly done and pretty much fell flat on its stupid face.

Now if you enjoy the LOTR film then that's great I am happy for you but let's be honest it didn't do the book justice.

As for the Hobbit movie, I didn't really like it.

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I agree with you about the Hobbit, but it was three movies.

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Naw both LOTR and The Hobbit were just one film that were sliced up into 3 segments.

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Well, yes, but the Hobbit should've been two parts at most, as was originally planned. As it is now, it's mostly shit, but with only a few good parts. And the unnecessary CGI overload is unforgivable.

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I thought Part I was OK but not great, I enjoyed the scene with Bilbo and Smaug but that's about it. The CGI was sh!t.

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You liked the Gollum "Riddles in the Dark" part, then?

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Yeah it was OK

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Keep in mind that if the LOTR movie was a completely original work I'd probably think it was decent, my issues is it doesn't seem to respect what is one of the greatest novels I have ever read.

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Dude STFU....NO ONE CARES. The movies were good and nerds like you do not have the ability to realize that movies don't always have to be exactly like the books. They won't be rebooted anytime soon, when they are you will be long dead ...move on nerdface...😂😂😂

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It should be judged as a film first. If you want to take that approach Nolan's Batman films do not honor what they are based on either. Tons of liberation taken from what Batman was in the comics. The comics are a big staple of pop culture and have been for a long time.

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Sup moviefanatic. Knew you'd hunt me down eventually.

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The Nolan Batman films also weren't based on any particular work, it was one man's vision of a comic book character. The story was his own. You can't say that for LOTR it was a direct adaptation of a specific work that it didn't respect.

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So then in order to judge the LOTR films you have to have read the books first? Doesn't work that way we judge them as films first. As films they left a gigantic cultural impact on cinema which is everlasting. It's to this day considered the greatest trilogy by the mass majority. And they were all rated individually by imdb, RT, and MC. So by critics and the mass majority so I am free to do the same. Don't like it tough luck.

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No I said the movie should stand on its own, but the way it was written and directed you have to read the book to make sense out of it. You can't judge it as a film on its own.

I guess this "cultural impact" isn't as obvious to everyone as it is to you, I have a feeling you're making this up.

It's not a trilogy, a trilogy has a beginning, a middle and an end, this is just one story.

I never mentioned IMDB, RT or MC, stay on topic.

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Interesting then why do critics and fans vote it extremely high? Seems to me they were able to make sense of it just fine. You are the only one I hear that does not make sense of it. So um yeah no. Also the extended cuts add quite a bit to the story. Even on their own they are great but the extended cuits are even better.

Um do you know how cultural impact works? Apparently not because it is not even opinion based you can back it up with objective facts.

According to the dictionary it is. a group of three related things. Check and mate. Tolkien was not alive when the films were made and he himself has no authority over the English language. I know I am sorry it beats your Batman films but you have to accept reality here.

Never said you did but my point stands. Critics and the mass majority rated them individually therefore I will do the same.

What I love is TDKR is not even the highest rated 3rd entry now even if you do not include LOTR. Avengers Infinity War is the third Avengers film and it has a higher rating on imdb than TDKR does. Avenger Infinity War is number 36 on the top 250 which is way higher than TDKR. Oh and it made way more money also. So go ahead disqualify LOTR it does not matter. TDKR is no longer even close to the best third entry according to the majority.

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1. I shouldn't have to watch the extended cut, the theatrical cut shouldn't be riddled with plot holes.

2. You made the claim that it's had cultural impact, you need to demonstrate it. I'm not taking your word for it.

3. It's just one story broken up into three pieces, anyone can do that. Nice try kid

4. Irrelevant

5. Who is talking about TDKR??? Stay on topic son.

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Coming from a guy who got the two towers and return of the king mixed up. So you first claim that it isn't accurate at all to the book then refuse to watch the extended cut which adds tons to the movie. Even in the theatrical cut there are no plot holes. However since you won't watch the extended cuts I am not going to humor you when it comes to comparing the books and the films.

Ok I will gladly demonstrate but first answer a question. Let's see if you have half a brain. What determines cultural impact in your feeble mind? Once you answer that I will demonstrate it with many objective measurements.

No it is three related things. Therefore trilogy. The mass majority rated them individually therefore I will do the same. The definition specifically cited LOTR in its example I proved thus to you already. Tolkien has no authority over the English language sorry. Funny how you never released that Pulp Fiction trilogy you mentioned you would. So much for that being a trilogy lol.

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Are you talking about the shield surfing??? That was literally 5 seconds out of a 9 hour film, that hardly constitutes mixing up the 2nd and 3rd segment. Nice try kid.

I shouldn't have to watch the extended version, that is unless you are willing to admit the theatrical cuts can't stand on their own.

You are the one asserting cultural impact, it's not my job to provide a definition to your claim.

The google definition is irrelevant to the thoughts and intentions of the author of the novel.

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It shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Credibility shot.

Again don't care if you do watch the extended cut. Just know I'm not hearing anymore complaints about the comparisons with it not honoring the book. The extended cut adds so much. Theatrical is already great but extended is even better.

So you have no idea what cultural impact means got it. All you have to do is answer a simple question. I know you're too stupid to know what it means. Prove that you know and I will provide examples.

Does Tolkien have authority over the English language? Nope therefore it overwrites him. Sorry bud if Tolien came out and said the word hot actually means cold would that make it so? Nope he doesn't have that authority. Nice try ignorant one.

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No I know exactly what I'm talking about, this is an irrelevant minor detail that you won't let up on because you know you don't have a leg to stand on.

So in conclusion...The theatrical cuts can't stand on their own. Thank you for conceding

You are the one who asserted cultural impact, you should be the one to define it. I'm not defining your own assertion.

Tolkein has authority over his own work.

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No I just know you're full of it. You got owned thanks for conceding.

Nope I just said the extended cuts are better. Did not concede to any of those so called plot holes.

Answer my question and I will. You won't because you have no idea what it means. Why talk to someone about something if they have no idea what it even means?

Not when it contradicts the English language's definition. Sorry bud.if it didn t he would but it does so nope.

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Mistaking a 3 second shot for two very similar battle sequences hardly qualifies "not knowing what you're talking about", but thank you for playing.

No you said that I had to watch the extended cuts for it to make sense, therefore the theatrical cuts don't stand on their own and have plot holes.

This is your argument, the fact that you need me to clarify your argument shows you have a bad one.

So therefore me taking my movie editor and breaking up Pulp Fiction into it's 3 separate segments satisfies your definition, LOL you just shot yourself in the foot there. After all "Vincent Vega and Marsellus Wallace's Wife", "The Gold Watch" and "The Bonnie Situation" are 3 related things.

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The battle sequences were not similar at all. Thanks for digging yourself deeper.

Nope I said the extended cuts make it better. Comprehend what you read, I never conceded to any flaws in the theatrical.

I am seeing you have a basic understanding of what cultural impact is. Since you want answer I am going to say that you don't understand it.

Funny thing is this is hypothetical you never released it publicly. I gave you chances to prove it you never did.

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Hmmmm, we have the heroes held up in a fortress while an army of Ork or Ork like creatures tries to invade the fortress by using a battering ram and at the end the heroes are reinforced resulting in them winning the battle. Yeah you're right they are completely different. Also the point still stands, you are grasping at straws and this entire discussion is irrelevant to the initial topic.

No you said in order for all of my complaints to be solved I needed to watch the extended cut: "So you first claim that it isn't accurate at all to the book then refuse to watch the extended cut which adds tons to the movie". Watching the extended cut shouldn't matter, there shouldn't be all of these plot holes in the theatrical cut.

It's your assertion you explain it, I'm not explaining your own position to you.

Does your definition say it has to be released to the public? I didn't see that.

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Yep glad we you see it is not the same. You learned something today that is good.

Nope never said that. I said I am not hearing that it is not accurate to the book when you will not see the extended cut. That is first. Thing is it not being accurate to the book has no bearing on the quality of film it is. If that was the case then critics would have to watch that first in order to critique the film. That is not how film criticism works. The Godfather is based off a book as well. There are many differences between the book and the film. So I guess by that logic Godfather is not a good film then right?

Nope I asked you to see if you have an understanding. You clearly do not so you conceded.

How else would you prove it? Second yeah once you release that cut publicly and you can show me where everyone rated those things individually I will believe you. I will wait.

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Point still remains, it was a minor gaff that you are exploiting because you don't have any substance left in your argument.

And I am telling you that if you think that I need to see the extended cut that is proof that the theatrical cut can't stand on its own.

You have yet to back up your claim, therefore all you are doing is throwing spit wads against a brick wall. You claimed it had cultural impact and now the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it.

Does your definition say it has to be rated individually? Seems like you are just making this up as you go.

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I caught you do not try and deflect. You lost this point.

I do not I said I think that the extended cut is better than the theatrical. Nowhere did I say you had to see it in order for it to be a great film. The theatrical films are still great films.

I can by many things bud. LOTR Return of the King is 24th highest grossing film of all time. Which shows a mass amount of people saw it when it was released. It is number 5 on the top 250 of imdb which remember this is a site you put so much stock in. You said it is a better measurement of quality than RT, MC or the Oscars because it has more people voting on it, and it can constantly change ratings. It has exceptional scores on RT, MC oh and it won 11 Oscars. Unlike Titanic it still is perfectly safe on the top 250 where as Titanic is nowhere to be found on that list. Boom check and mate.

So I guess we are going to skip past the fact that Godfather was not accurate to it's source material? So it is not okay for Jackson to take liberation but it is perfectly okay for Coppola to do it. Double standard much?

Yep I claimed that way back when. So once that happens I will believe you. Until then Pulp Fiction is one film.

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You didn't catch me at anything, me accidentally saying the shield surfing was in ROTK is irrelevant to this discussion. You just bring it up because you have nothing better.

No you said I need to watch it to make sense of the theatrical cut.

Explain how that equals cultural impact??? One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest has better numbers explain its cultural impact to me??? You can't even define cultural impact which is the basis of your entire argument.

No because The Godfather made sense on its own and any changes to the source material had a point to it. Learn to stay on topic.

Your definition never said it had to be released publicly, by your own definition I created a Pulp Fiction trilogy because it is "3 related things". My trilogy has satisfied your definition. Suck on it kid.

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No you are salty that I owned you and you are too dumb to tell the two movies apart from one another.

Nope I did not. No putting words in my mouth.

Is imdb, RT, MC, box office and Oscars not apart of culture? All of those are. Hence cultural impact. Um no One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest does not have better numbers than Return of the King does. LOTR Return of the King is number 5 on imdb top 250, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest is number 19. LOTR Return of the King made more money, won more Oscars and has a better rating on MC. The only area it got beat was RT. So out of the 5 rounds LOTR Return of the King won 4 of them. It won on imdb, MC, box office and Oscar wins/nominations. Does that mean One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest was not culturally impactful no, but LOTR Return of the King has better numbers. Nice try though.

No it did not. You just have a double standard.

Prove it. I am not going to believe it just because you claimed you did. As I said I will wait. I gave you the way I will believe you now go do it. I am getting impatient.

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Hahahahahahahaha OK kid, you were right the shield surfing was in TTT, something I admitted in the very next post. But whatever you need to make you feel good about yourself, LOL.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, you said I had no right to complain about the theatrical cut if I wouldn't watch the extended cut, the theatrical cut should stand on its own and as of now it is riddled with plot holes (example: Denethors insanity).

OMG you are deluded are you seriously comparing 1975 dollars to 2003 dollars? And One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest is one of three films to ever win all 5 major academy awards, something your precious (no pun intended) LOTR film wasn't good enough to do.

No double standard at all, I understand changes have to be made because what works in one medium doesn't always work in another, the changes should make sense though. One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest is a great example of a film that differed from its source material for the better.

I don't need to prove it, my trilogy satisfies your definition. It never said it had to be released to the public. Stop making this up as you go.

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I said I am not hearing you complain that it did not honor the books when you will not even watch the extended cuts. I never said that made your arguments have any sort of merit. You do not comprehend what you read very well huh?

Even if you adjust for inflation LOTR Return of the King still out grosses One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest... Another failure from you. Funny thing LOTR Return of the King is won 2 out of the 3. Yep One Flew did win that I can grant you that. However as a whole it is still seen as a better film by the majority. The fact that it beat that movie on imdb, MC, and box office proves that. Which you yourself said imdb has more credibility than Oscars therefore suck on it.

Apparently the majority thought the changes were fine. As it is quite evident you are in the minority of not thinking LOTR Return of the King is great.

Yes you do need to. the one making the claim has to prove their point. Since you will not I guess that means you lied.

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I shouldn't have to watch the extended cut, the theatrical cut should make sense on its own.

Doesn't matter, you tried to imply that 2003 dollars = 1975 dollars. Apparently your 3rd grade teacher never taught you about inflation, hahahahahahaha. Makes sense.

Never said IMDB had more credibility than the Oscars, and OFOTCN is one of three films to ever win all 5 major Oscars, LOTR didn't even come close to that.

The amount of people who believe something is irrelevant to the validity.

Your definition that you are going by said nothing about it having to be released to the public, so therefore I don't need to show you.

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And it does. So guess you lost this point also.

Which is why I adjusted for inflation lol. I knew you would pull that. I claimed it made more money period. I did not say it made more money without taking that into the equation. Had I said LOTR Return of the King made more than the original Star Wars without adjusting for inflation then you would have a point. Sadly though even when adjusting for inflation the result is still the same. So another failure from you lol.

Yes you did say that. And I granted OFOCTN that. LOTR however is rated higher by the majority so when you said it had better numbers you lied. LOTR won the data match up sorry pal.

That can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed with out evidence. So I do not believe you.

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Why was Denethor crazy??? You can only use supporting evidence from the theatrical cut. Why was Merry able to wound the Witch King? You can only use supporting evidence from the theatrical cut.

No you didn't say that originally, you didn't know about inflation until I educated you.

Nope I never said that, and you never demonstrated that any of this equates to cultural impact so all of your points are debunked until you can.

Actually it can only be asserted without evidence because your own definition never said they had to be released to the public.

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No I said it made more money. Which means period. Even when equating in inflation. Notice I never said LOTR made more than Star Wars because I know about inflation. So yeah nope.

Yes you did. I have it in my inbox from when you were utlimate hippo. I can screen shot it. The internet is written in ink not pencil m friend.

Which you never did. Which is why I can dismiss it lol. Nice try.

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This discussion isn't about Star Wars and since you never mentioned inflation before I did that means you didn't know about it.

Nope never said it.

Nope, your definition never said that it had to be released publicly, therefore it can be a trilogy and not be released publicly or rated individually.

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I did not know about inflation? You sure about that hmm lets see.

https://moviechat.org/tt4154796/Avengers-Endgame/5cd672fe6ba5b10f21fcade3/Is-This-Going-To-Beat-Avatar?reply=5cd6f0d67270ea3b9260377f

My exact quote

What I find interesting is when you adjust for inflation nothing beats Gone With the Wind. Nothing probably ever will when factoring that in.


This was posted 15 days ago. Which is before we talked inflation. Owned!

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No response about inflation did not think so.

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Gone With The Wind came out in the 30's, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest came out in 1975, we were talking about 1975 vs. 2001-2003 moron. You seemed to think they were equivalent.

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Oh and while you're at it, go ahead and add Gone With The Wind to the very long list of films that are better than LOTR.

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And here's another fun fact, that same list you cited early, after it was updated One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest is still higher than the one part of LOTR that actually made it. Read it and weep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s_100_Years...100_Movies_(10th_Anniversary_Edition)

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That is perfectly fine Gone with the Wind is one of my favorite films. I also love One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest also so meh makes no difference. I am just glad TDK trilogy did not make it lol.

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Stop deflecting, this isn't about TDK. Stay on topic.

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Also nice try but this was not the data you were referring to when you said One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest had better numbers than LOTR. You did not know about afi I bet until I brought it up to you.

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One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest does have better numbers, it's higher on that list and is one of three films to win all 5 major Academy Awards, LOTR didn't even come close. By your logic OFOTCN has had greater cultural impact.

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You do not get to mention that list because you had never mentioned it before I brought it to your attention.

LOTR ROTK made more money even when adjusting for inflation, won on imdb, and MC. So out of 5 rounds it won 3. Nice try though.

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Actually I do because you tried to use it to justify the "cultural impact". Guess your own plan shot you in the ass.

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You said I knew nothing about inflation. This post proves I knew about it before we talked.

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You obviously don't because you seem to think that 1975 numbers = 2001-2003 numbers.

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Nope as evident that I posted about Gone with the Wind being the highest grossing movie ever when adjusting for inflation. I proved you wrong here own up to it.

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You compared 1975 to 2003 without even bringing up inflation, you thought that there wasn't any inflation during those 28 years.

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Also I'm going to need to see a definition that says cultural impact includes all of the things you just mentioned.

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Already proved what cultural impact was. Nothing about my assessment could you disprove. The box office results, imdb scores, RT scores, MC scores, and Oscars it won are all objective data. All of which are apart of culture which showcases cultural impact. Thus objectively proving my point. None of that you can refute. Funny how you will not do this when it comes to your so called trilogy of Pulp Fiction you made.

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No you didn't you just made up your own definition. I need to see an objective definition that mentions all of those things. And this definition needs to be agreed upon by the cinematic community.

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Nice try. However I provided my proof lets see you provide some of yours. I kicked the ball now the ball is in your court. Prove to me you made that Pulp Fiction edit.

The cinematic community does not need to sign off on something to support something being culturally impactful.

You are cute though seriously I love how hard you try. It is fun seeing you fail.

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Actually you haven't provided anything, you just made up your own definition and included whatever data you needed to to spin it in your favor.

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Nope actually here since you want one here is a perfect example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s_100_Years...100_Movies

Here is the criteria.

Feature length: Narrative format, at least 60 minutes long.

American film: English language, with significant creative and/or financial production elements from the United States. (Certain films, notably The Bridge on the River Kwai, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Lawrence of Arabia, were British-made but funded and distributed by American studios. The Lord of the Rings was New Zealand-made with American funding.)

Critical recognition: Formal commendation in print.

Major award winner: Recognition from competitive events including awards from organizations in the film community and major film festivals.

Popularity over time: Including figures for box office adjusted for inflation, television broadcasts and syndication, and home video sales and rentals.

Historical significance: A film's mark on the history of the moving image through technical innovation, visionary narrative devices or other groundbreaking achievements.

Cultural impact: A film's mark on American society in matters of style and substance.

This list is determined by 1500 artists in the film industry. So there is your cinematic community lol. Now lets see you provide proof.

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Hahahahahaha, really resorting to wikipedia??? Keep it coming kid. Also the wikipedia definition was subjective and I am not going to entertain it.

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Which is a link to afi smart one. Lol. The american film institute.

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Even if I grant you that, the definition is subjective, you still haven't demonstrated how LOTR made a "mark on American society in matters of style and substance."

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I provided my proof now lets see yours.

A movies box office results are not subjective. How popular a movie is, is not subjective. That is objective. Which that stuff is apart of culture objectively.

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You provided a subjective definition and you weren't able to connect it to LOTR, you are far from proving your point.

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box office results and popularity are not subjective. So nope sorry fail again.

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No demonstrate that box office results equal cultural impact. And how do you measure popularity? What unit is it measured in?

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I already did. You said that all I provided was subjective stuff box office results are not subjective neither is popularity.

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No you didn't demonstrate that box office results = cultural impact.

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Also it says that only the FOTR segment was added to the list later, so even your precious (no pun intended) ROTK segment wasn't even good enough for the list yet OFOTCN is on there. Damn you suck. Also both Titanic and Pulp Fiction are on there.

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Does not matter if it was added later the point is it is on there now isn't it?

You know what movies I do not see on there though? Any of TDK movies I wonder why. So I guess TDKR is not as good as you thought huh. Not a single one made it man talk about a beat down sheesh I am sorry dude.

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You have 1/3 of a film and ROTK is nowhere to be found. Facts are a bitch aren't they.

Stop deflecting this discussion isn't about TDK, the only one who ever mentioned it is you.

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Nope they do not hurt because the fact is it beat your lame movies where as not even 1 made it which I find hilarious. Which showcases LOTR is seen as better than TDK trilogy.

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Again who is talking about TDK??? Do you have a severe case of ADHD or something? You seem to have a hard time staying on topic.

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I acknowledged only one made it. So nope I can acknowledge fact and stay on topic just fine.

Now it is time to face facts that TDK trilogy did not even make the list. Not a single one.

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This topic is about LOTR not respecting the source material and not telling a coherent story. Stop hijacking my thread.

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I’m not even a huge LOTR fan and yet think it’s the greatest trilogy ever... objectively.

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It's because you can see things with an unbiased view. The only reason he wants to disqualify LOTR as a trilogy is because it bests TDK trilogy. He loves to flaunt ratings in your face as long as it suits what he likes. Since he knows LOTR beats it in ratings by every objective measurements he has to find a way to discredit it being a trilogy. That way he can put that trilogy as the best. Quite pathetic he is that insecure about things. Notice he doesn't do that with any other trilogy even if it's like LOTR where it's seamless. Back to the future is the same way but he doesn't care because it isn't rated above TDK trilogy.

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The alleged Hobbit project is an unmitigated disaster and a disgrace to the source material. We need the Men In Black to use their thingie to wipe it from our memory. With excellent editing, The Hobbit can be done in one movie. It will mean leaving out some things. Every one of those things will have a fan who will wail and moan over the omission. Then know this: performing arts are OFTEN edited for length. Most of Shakespeare’s tragedies (Lear, Hamlet) ARE ALWAYS edited by the production’s Director. They are simply too long, in their complete text, for an audience to tolerate.

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I think I'd rather lose some some moments of the Hobbit than have another bloated mess like we had.

There are almost always things from books that are omitted from movies. Either they don't translate well to screen, or they advance the character more than the plot.

Just out of curiosity have you seen the 1996 Hamlet? It's the play in it's entirety, and yet it set in a different time.

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No, sslssg, I haven’t. How long is the running time? No one has ever been able to answer that for me. I’m not at all surprised, or troubled, by the revised setting. Directors often conclude that a different setting for The Bard makes his work more compelling to a modern audience, and I support that whole-heartedly. Thank you for letting me know😁

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I just checked my dvd and it's 242 mins

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There MUST have been an intermission, or the theater concession was selling colostomy bags!

Of course, you can pause your disc player.

Are your disc’s Region 1 encoded, NTSC protocol? And than you for your answer.

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There is an intermission. It's region one, but that's all I know

Edit
It is NTSC, and I found my vhs copy of it as well. Lol

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You make me laugh, too, in a good and supportive way. We are completists. We cover all our bases. Region 1 is for North American (US and Canadian)
consumption. Because we live in a global village, where confusion can reign, I also want to make certain that media are compatible with my hardware. Now you know what a geek I am; but now you also know how happy I am for the completeness of your reply!

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If you like Hamlet, it is a great version. There are a few miscasts like Jack Lemon, but over all it's my preferred version, and it's great to see it in its entirety.

(I had to go back and check why we were discussing Hamlet on the LOTR board 🤓.)

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Correct on all counts. I hope I live to see "The Hobbit" done right, and how fucking hard can that be! It's a charming story about a likeable hero having awesome adventures, and should have been a fast-paced single film.

I highly recommend the fan documentary "A Long-Expected Autopsy" and its sequels, "The Battle of Five Studios", and "The Desolation of Warners". They're a clever and entertaing analysis of what went wrong, and how.

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You won't live to see a reboot..haha....😂😂😂😂😂

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Yes, I understand when adapting a novel you have to make changes, what works in one medium may not work in another. But the changes should make sense, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest is a great example of a film that deviated from its source material for the better, LOTR and The Hobbit are not.

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What else can the ring do? I didn't read the books although would love to someday.

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Only when they can do it in VR.

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No way.

Now, if they want to make a trilogy around The Silmarillion ...game on!

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What? Did someone say Silmarillion? Sign me up! Although I think it would work better as a multi season cable series.

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I'm perfectly happy with the original.

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That's fine, I however prefer plots that make sense but that's just me.

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The plots made perfect sense. If you can't watch what they had and say that it made no sense, perhaps you would be happier with one of those lame films with non-linear story-telling. These movies are fine the way they are. Case closed.

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So then why did Legolas say "the stars are veiled" when they are clearly visible in the background? Why is Denethor so f-cking crazy??? Yeah if you read the book it makes perfect sense but if you only watch the movie it makes no sense at all and if the movie needs to rely on the book to make sense then it doesn't stand on its own.

Even the stuff Peter Jackson made up doesn't make sense all of the time, why did Sam turn around and go back to help Frodo when he found the bread??? I mean what was his realization??? "Why it turns out I didn't eat the bread afterall"??? And that is from a segment that I actually kind of liked. Such a stupid movie.

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Nope.

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I said they factor in cultural impact. So no actually it did not. Even if you factor that in LOTR would still edge it out. Lets take a look.

LOTR won in box office, imdb, MC and on RT it is a toss up. OFOTCN has an average score of 9.0/10 where as LOTR has an 8.6 average score. However when factoring in the top critics LOTR has a higher average score. LOTR has an average score of 8.5 where OFOTCN has a 8.0 average score among top critics. So we can go ahead and say RT is a draw. OFOTCN won in Oscars, and on afi. So out of the 5 rounds LOTR won since RT it was a draw.

Nice try though so close. Even with me helping you out you still lost.

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You still haven't provided an objective definition of "cultural impact", you're just making this up.

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Box office results, and popularity are objective. They are apart of culture my friend. Also you have not proved that you made your Pulp Fiction trilogy. I am still waiting.

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I don't have to, my Pulp Fiction trilogy satisfies your own definition of a trilogy.

What is the unit you measure popularity in? And what is the conversion factor between box office numbers, popularity and cultural impact?

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Nope you need to prove it or else I will not believe you. I gave you the stipulation. You know what needs to happen.

Once you prove you made your Pulp Fiction I will further expand on my objective measurements.

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Nope, I don't need to prove it because regardless of whether I did it or not if I were to it would satisfy your definition.

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Also how do you quantify cultural impact? Is your formula universally accepted? Unless it is you're just pissing in the wind.

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No Pulp Fiction proof no further expansion on this point.

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OK send me your address and I'll send you a copy.

However you must concede this first: If it were to be made it would satisfy your definition.

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Nope release it to the public. Post it online so I can see it then I will believe you.

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No problem but first when I do this you concede that it meets your definition correct?

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Once it is released theatrically it will all be set fine. I can't wait to go the theater to see this flick man. I wonder how critics and the academy is going to measure these individual pieces of the film.

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Naw naw naw, don't try to backpedal, your definition said nothing about being released theatrically. I just "posted" my Pulp Fiction Trilogy, in 3 different parts just as you requested and I think it's safe to say they are "3 related things"

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Part I:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEdUuuKYZ4k&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=17
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFDLIAn9WHU&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=18
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDiny43nx3Y&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=19
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-GeaUL-T34&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=20
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3tGImqhrMo&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=21
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5gSIRX6n98&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=22
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSLMN6g_Od4&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=23
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h-HTJcsx-k&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=24
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfeIuFgZyD0&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=25

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Part 2:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWp6hZ-5ndc&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=26
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTRflaMgd-8&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=27
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfN2SpUqfPM&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=28
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NWVqf-GkNw&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=29
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dSI6UbTcQs&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=30
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwaaHEDzjT0&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=31
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMdeW1vz2_Q&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=32
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFwxTUr9M1w&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=33
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y_NU_OUwvk&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=34

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Part 3:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6YBKdmOlM8&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=4
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gWNkTNnCFc&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=5
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IOXzpRJ714&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=6
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sssAoEzMhGk&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=7
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K-bpTlZbWk&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=8
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTkg6wq6ma4&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=9
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABrnrZx184g&lis
t=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=10
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTN7Mhv59KA&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=11
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_oaTP_oRsc&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=12
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5LcEB0zYVU&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=13
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1es3eRv3K5Y&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=14
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am5LtbMrVes&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=15
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvy4YH9--Vw&list=PLhOarGds719EUvk1wHVv6R5WzZG929fZe&index=16

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There you go, I have satisfied your definition of a trilogy!

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Wow can not even get the links to be clickable? Also the links do not work.

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Links work fine and your definition didn't say it had to be clickable.

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Apparently you are too dumb to make them clickable.

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Apparently you are just too lazy to copy and paste. Also your definition didn’t say anything about being clickable

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So now the question is this: Are BOTH LOTR and Pulp Fiction or trilogy or are NEITHER???

I'm not letting you off the hook so don't get your hopes up bitchboy.

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I'm willing to allow you to back out of having to admit Pulp Fiction is a trilogy as long as you admit LOTR isn't.

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You still have not proven anything. You said you would make your own edit. You did not edit that. You posted a youtube link. Second That is not in three parts now is it?

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So it can only be a trilogy if I personally edit it? Thanks you just debunked LOTR as a trilogy

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You said you would make an edit of three segments. You also said it would be in 3 segments. Neither is true. So yeah I gave you a chance you failed.

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Nope it was posted in 3 parts as you requested. I have satisfied your definition. Now are both of them trilogies or neither. It's one or the other, which one?

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You claimed you edited it. You did not therefore you lied. Also it is not in three segments it is only parts of the film. Sorry bud no dice. Try again.

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Actually I did edit it, I found the appropriate clips and arranged them in the correct order and split it into its 3 separate segments, despite the fact that was never in your definition to begin with.

Now again I want an answer: Are they BOTH trilogies or are NEITHER? It's one or the other kiddo.

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Nope that's a YouTube clip of scenes of the film. It's also not in three segments like you claimed. Sorry man too bad.

You get an answer when I get one. Is imdb part of culture?

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It is in 3 segments, I arranged them in the correct order in 3 different posts. I don't think your definition specified what format it had to be in so suck on it.

I don't know, this cultural impact nonsense is your issue, why don't you provide an objective, universally accepted definition of "cultural impact" (since google definitions seem to be what you go by) that mentions IMDB, then we'll talk.

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