Alright, let me get this straight...I challenged you to find a RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION that files lawsuits as often as Scientology. Your response was a link to a story about a high school student and his parents filing suit against a teacher. Are you cleverly trying to hide your illiteracy? Or did you just not find anything, and hoped I wouldn't follow the link and/or not understand it's implications?
I don't care to back and look, but I know you had stated that tax-exemption status unfairly seperated the established world religions from newer ones. Now I say that to be *beep* because any non-profit religion can file for tax exempt status. Now you back up and claim that it is all immaterial?
You AGAIN make claims without doing a stitch or research. Since you clearly have problems with reading, I'll do it for you. I'll even be nice and use hyperlinks, which you neglected to do for me with that...ummm...I guess we can call it research. I will do this because unlike you, I actually WANT you to see these.
Scientology DOES force people to do things against their will
http://www.skeptictank.org/aznaran.htm
You don't know the first thing about this cult if you think that they simply "got the idea from their beliefs". Read up on "fair game". Oh hell, I suppose I'll provide a link, because I know you won't go find it yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)
If you are one of those nutjobs that doesn't like Wikipedia, here's another.
http://www.fairgamed.org/
As for unproductive, beyond having their lives limited to serving the cult, there are also much more disturbing examples. Here is one where a woman was brainwashed into not getting treated for her cancer. I'll bet she isn't a very productive member of society dead...which she now is.
http://www.scientology-kills.org/survivors_friend.htm
If these links didn't fully satisfy you, or you think they are biased, let me know. There are THOUSANDS more.
Yes, I know about the Vatican's immense wealth, I was referring to domestic matters. The Catholic Church has a formidable stateside wealth that is largely fueled by the individual parishes.
You really shouldn't be passing judgement on my research. I study everything as objectively as is possible, but there just isn't any decent research to be done on the pros of Scientology. All positive information is either released by $cientology itself, half-heartedly by current members, or is obviously completely baseless in it's implications, such as what you have said in this thread. "C'mon guys, don't pick on them. I don't know the first thing about them, but they can't be so bad, right? Who's with me?"
We can keep going like this forever. You are more interested in winning an argument than you are in learning something. This is by such a wide margin, you seem to not care that you look like a grade A fool doing so. I don't mind an argument either, and I dislike losing anything very much. The major difference is, all you have to go on is semantics and pure arguing ability. I have that as well, plus a knowledge base on the topic and hand, and MOUNTAINS of data to back me up.
If you insist on continuing, I'll understand. You're a douche, it's in your nature.
I am Jack's IMDB post.
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!!!deleted!!! (2540476)
17 years ago
"Scientology DOES force people to do things against their will
http://www.skeptictank.org/aznaran.htm
You don't know the first thing about this cult if you think that they simply "got the idea from their beliefs". Read up on "fair game". Oh hell, I suppose I'll provide a link, because I know you won't go find it yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)
If you are one of those nutjobs that doesn't like Wikipedia, here's another.
http://www.fairgamed.org/
As for unproductive, beyond having their lives limited to serving the cult, there are also much more disturbing examples. Here is one where a woman was brainwashed into not getting treated for her cancer. I'll bet she isn't a very productive member of society dead...which she now is.
http://www.scientology-kills.org/survivors_friend.htm";
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First off, you are right. It was presumptuous of me to question the validity of your argument.
Now, here we go:
So you've got all these websites that have what you think is overwhlemingly damning evidence about illegal activities within the Church of Scientology. And they may be very valid sources. But, if there were such irrefutable evidence, wouldn't it be used to follow civil and/or criminal charges against the organization?
You gave me 2 links on "Fair Game", and one of those links said that Fair Game no longer occurs (and I found evidence to back it up). Just pointing it out.
As for brainwashing, I would say that by and large, the notion of brainwashing is that it is a sensationalist theory. Of course, I am stealing words from this site: http://www.cesnur.org/testi/gandow_eng.htm
Besides all that, were we to start singling out religions because of legal troubles, may I also suggest the FLDS for polygamy, and various Christian Churches (not just the weirdo Catholics) for sexual abuse.
You know, I just realized that maybe you think I'm defending Scientologists who have sued others. Of course, I don't think that's right, because it's frivolous (on the order of the McDonalds suit in 1993, you know, the hot coffee incident?) Frivolous lawsuits waste resources, and make the courts less efficient.
At any rate, why do you feel the need to repeatedly insult me, when I clearly have not done so to you? at any rate, I have a feeling that, if this discussion were to continue, it would dissolve into an Internet pissing war, something I want no part of. You?
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KTope
17 years ago
Olive branch accepted. I appologize for the insults, I tend to get a little worked up when it seems as though someone is defending scumbags and then alludes to me being the unreasonable party.
Scientology isn't without it's convictions. Murder, Criminal Association, Interfering with a Witness, the largest Libel case in Canadian history, Espionage, B&E, Stealing U.S. Government Documents, and Fraud like a thousand times. These I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure you can find many more if you care to. Check out "Operation Snow White" if you want to see one of the biggest non-favorable infiltrations into our government on record, a conspiracy puppeteered by L. Ron himself. A lot of people went to prison in that one, including LRH's wife.
Scientology is trying to build itself a new face now that Tom Cruise is their ambassador. To say that Fair Game isn't used anymore is pure speculation. It seems far more likely that they have changed their tactics, making their actions less obvious. The foremost authorities on the subject, Annonymous, seem to think Fair Game is alive and well.
The brainwashing is far from sensationalist, I can assure you. Having nearly lost a family member to a cult that is far less devisive than this one, I can tell you that it happens, and it happens fast.
Yes, many religious organizations are in need of a little heat, not just Scientologists. Although, I am surprised to see you put Christian Churches down for sexual abuse. The abuse isn't intrinsic to the nature of Christianity, nor does it seem to be accepted. The only disturbing thing I saw there (except the individual's actions, of course) was the Pope's "as long as it was only 1 child" ruling. So they went from chastity to monogamy, I guess.
I am Jack's IMDB post.
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!!!deleted!!! (2540476)
17 years ago
"I tend to get a little worked up when it seems as though someone is defending scumbags and then alludes to me being the unreasonable party."
I figured that out yesterday in a moment of clarity. I would have thought the same thing in your shoes, probably. And for the record, I really don't have too many convictions one way or the other on fringe religions, but I do tend to play the devil's advocate more often than not.
Wasn't that fun, though? :)
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