Did you also notice how the movie tends to associate male-male sex with something negative all the way through?
The board members: Disowning his gay son, having sex with an 11 year old boy and doing whatever ghastly things to his own son.
Bob being shocked at Jay fantasizing about men and Jay going out of his way to prove he isn't a *beep* Same thing with Bartleby when Betthany thinks he's gay, though he isn't quite as negative in his denial.
how is it a negative thing if the people who disowned their gay son, had sex with an 11 year old boy and did terrible things to their son were all killed for being terrible people? I'd say it's pointing out their awful actions of being negative; not the fact that there was some gay substance to it.
shareYou claim that this movie is, or can be, anti (male-male) gay. You mention a few scenes, but you obviously miss the point.
1. The board member disowning his gay son is portrayed negatively. I.e. his son is gay, but he is still his son, and therefore that should be only thing that matters.
2. The board member that had sex with an 11-year old boy is not gay. He is a pedophile. End of story.
3. Bob being shocked about Jay fantasizing about men is quite normal, because a straight friend turning out to be bi or gay after a few years comes as a surprise. Jay on the other hand, while trying to prove that he is not gay is also normal. The social norm in most societies is heterosexuality (in some societies more, in some less), and that is why it is so shocking. Also, Jay and Silent Bob are not the smartest of individuals (or at least Jay), so a little bit of homophobia might exist. But the funny thing here is that the guy that talks that much and that explicitly about sex turns up to be a guy that fantasizes about men. Get it?
Watch the movie again, but this time leave your (American?) political correctness out.
By the way don't know if any of you know or not but Kevin Smith's brother is gay, just haven't seen it mentioned here is all.
share2. The board member that had sex with an 11-year old boy is not gay. He is a pedophile. End of story.
It was not about the gay son, it was about DISOWNING his gay son. It was bad because parents are supposed to love and protect their children. So actually the film made a point of saying that homosexuality is not bad at this point.
The part about sex with an 11 year old boy...if the gender stuck out more to you then the age, you might want to sit down and do some serious thinking.
With the father who did god knows what with his son, again, childabuse.
And you would do good to take just about anything Jay or silent Bob say or do and turn it around 180 degrees before you take it seriously. Those guys went to an abortion clinic to pick up women and only accompanied Bethany when she agreed to have sex with them if they got into a situation where they would soon die.
I think humanity should be wiped out and then we can give evolution a second chance.
I don't consider Dogma "anti-gay" so much as anti-homophobic (they did kill the guy who disowned his gay son), anti-child-rape (killed the sex tourist guy), and anti-dumb-macho-bullcrap (because Jay's insecure, overcompensating acting-out is obviously not something we're meant to admire). And Bob being "shocked" isn't an 'anti-gay' reaction so much as a surprised reaction, and a legitimate one if Jay's always objectifying women.
I have a pretty finely tuned radar for when "my people" are being attacked, and I didn't sense it in this movie at all. The closest thing to genuine homophobia I heard expressed came from characters who were the bad guys, not exactly the paragons of virtues that we as the audience are encouraged to cheer for. By the same token, a documentary on Hitler-- who had tens if not hundreds of thousands of gay people killed in the concentration camps-- could hardly be called "anti-gay" for showing that 'the most evil man who ever lived' had a hate-on for us. I think you're mistaking the negative depiction of anti-gay sentiment for the editorial expression of that same sentiment.
I'm an island- peopled by scientists, bards, judges, soldiers, artists, scholars, & warrior-poets.
I'm gay and I don't think this film is anti-gay.
To the OP. Gay people don't NEED straight people to survive. What an odd thing to say. We can reproduce you know.
And before any says anything I'm guessing none of you have wings?
I don't see it as anti-gay movie, how is disowning your gay son anti-gay (considering, they angels were naming their "sins)? Annnd, having sex with an 11 year old boy is pedophilia. Seriously, there's nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with being gay,and I know Kevin Smith isn't a homophobic bigot anyway.
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They were being judged for being anti-gay. They didn't find the act of homosexuality disgusting those contexts, but found it disgusting that a grown man would rape a child and that a man would disown his son for something trivial.
Inferring that Jay was gay is just a running gag. Most of it was just a joke on how stupid he is, nothing really deeper than that.
As for Bartleby, Bethany misunderstood their relationship. He corrected her.
You built a time machine... Out of a Delorean??!!
I come to the board... and suddenly I'm back on the stone age! Wow! Could'we sworn we had been past all this *beep* long, long time ago, but no. Of course not.
"Vagina good. Penis bad. Me think with dick. Me right. Me do what me find good. Everybody has to be like me. Otherwise everybody is wrong. Me like strawberry. You no like strawberry, I kill."
You can always count on imdb-people to be the smartest. You guys make 4chan-users look like *beep* Einsteins.
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>Disowning his gay son
Doesn't this imply that the correct course of action is to accept gay people, rather than disowning them? I think you're reading a little more into it than is really there.
I agree hvm02.
One of the mens' sins was disowning his gay son.
How could that possible be misconstrued as something "anti-gay?"
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