Why all American movies have the same message?? - The Postman (1997) Discussion

[–] godforge2003 17 years ago

Just kidding about the A-boms...no hard feelings O.K.?... Hey what are some other good Post-appocaliptic movies? I like Japanese movies too...

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[–] collieraf 17 years ago

I don't know what craphole country OP is from, but maybe when your country starts making movies then you can inject your own "nationalistic propaganda" in them and you can stop watching our movies. You're surprised that movies made in America, by Americans, for Americans has a pro-American message? Who would have thought!?!?!?! Did you think we'd make anti-American movies? Please forgive us for being proud of where we're from, how we got here, what we have, etc. This movie is pretty bad, and I only was scanning the boards to see if other people thought this movie was as bad as I did, but I had to reply to your stupid thread:
"Hello Americans, aren't you tired of hearing that your country is great?"

No, I'm not. Yeah, there is a lot of ridiculous propaganda in movies, and that is for us to sort out. I've lived overseas for 17 years and I keep going back to the US. We have our problems but so does everyone else.

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[–] Manmandiran 17 years ago

Thing is, what many foreign viewers tend to forget is that US movies as well as US TV shows are mainly aimed at the US audience. International audience comes only second. But since standardized pop culture is mostly US (although I think Britney Spears, Paris Hilton and Brett Ratner REALLY don't reflect the best of America...), international audience sometimes expects those standardized US movies not to be so "American".

However, what is pretty clear is that those (mostly bad) movies with an overwhelmingly nationalistic message are as much American as McDonald's represents traditional American food, i.e. very little. Specially when you think that hyper-nationalistic movies like ID4 are actually made by foreigners (Emerich)...

Standardized pop culture is just stupid, whether it's from America of from France (Luc Besson's productions) or India (what Bollywood has become since the last 25 years), etc.

Great American movies (including Sci Fi and adventure, I'm not talking only about Woody Allen or Clint Eastwood here) are very rarely nationalistic. Of course you can have great nationalistic movies, like Birth of a Nation (Griffith), which by the way is also racist, but it's rather rare.

Last thing I wanted to say: of course it can be strange for a European to see, e.g., an American flag at the end of Spider-Man (the 3rd one I think), but you have to remember that 1) this was made after 9/11, 2) the flag and the national ideology have a bad image in Europe because of WW2 and fascism, which is not the case in the US, 3) the flag is an image of unity of the 50 states. And this was the main theme of Costner's movie: a message for unity (e pluribus unum), in a country (the US of A) which always feared (Civil War, etc.) inner division.

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[–] Libermeus 16 years ago

Be that as it may, this movie sucked ass.

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[–] Mex5150 16 years ago

Hi

WHY all American movies must have a propagandistic message in their movies?

Because your average american is incredibly xenophobic, and they like their movies to reassure them they are right. I know it's ridiculous, and they keep coming back with the same hackneyed argument that 'it's set in america, so why wouldn't it be pro american' but I'm afraid that just doesn't hold water, I've seen (and own) loads and loads of movies from all over the world, I don't recall any having as much self propaganda as the average yank movie.

~Mex

--

Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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[–] agrofelipe 16 years ago

"Because your average american is incredibly xenophobic, and they like their movies to reassure them they are right. I know it's ridiculous"

You are very stupid trying to make such generalizations making them sound like a centered opinion.

Back on topic, I think americans still believe in their hearts the core ideals on which America was founded and their are proud of it.

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[–] Mex5150 16 years ago

Hi

You are very stupid trying to make such generalizations making them sound like a centered opinion.

The hackneyed arguments are all over IMDb for everybody to see, the fact that the average american is xenophobic is verifiable by US government statistics.

I notice you nicely sidestepped the whole point of this thread too with a totally expected 'we're proud to be american's and to hell with whatever you were saying' LOL

~Mex

--

Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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[–] agrofelipe 16 years ago

"the fact that the average american is xenophobic is verifiable by US government statistics."

Which you don't give........ truly you are a master at debates.

"I notice you nicely sidestepped the whole point of this thread too with a totally expected"

I wasn't sidestepping anything, I was replying to your fallacy.

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[–] Mex5150 16 years ago

Hi

"the fact that the average american is xenophobic is verifiable by US government statistics."

Which you don't give........ truly you are a master at debates.

OK, as you clearly don't know how to use the internet very well, here you go:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/services/stats/stats_890.html which gives the highest instance at around 18,000,000, but if we add the last 10 years of listed data we get 41,458,446.

The population (from here https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.ht ml) is 307,212,123, so we can calculate the current number of citizens at the end of that period would be less than 15%, as it is also safe to say a great many of those would be exclusively for business use the real number would be much lower still.

Being a generous chap I'll ignore the business usage, that gives a huge 85% of US citizens without a passport, pretty xenophobic don't you think? and all the numbers came from the US government.

"I notice you nicely sidestepped the whole point of this thread too with a totally expected"

I wasn't sidestepping anything, I was replying to your fallacy.

Nice try at another sidestep LOL

~Mex

--

Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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[–] agrofelipe 16 years ago

"Being a generous chap I'll ignore the business usage, that gives a huge 85% of US citizens without a passport, pretty xenophobic don't you think?"

So if you don't travel overseas then you are xenophobic?....... did you have a vascular accident in your brain in the past 6 months?. LOL

"Nice try at another sidestep LOL "

Clearly your reasoning powers are being wasted in this board. I wont waste your valuable time anymore.

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[–] Mex5150 16 years ago

Hi

So if you don't travel overseas then you are xenophobic?

it's one good way of demonstraiting it yes.

did you have a vascular accident in your brain in the past 6 months?. LOL

Nope, never, how about you?

Clearly your reasoning powers are being wasted in this board. I wont waste your valuable time anymore.

Nice of you to admit you were wrong publicly.

~Mex

--

Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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[–] elk0445 16 years ago

Not having a passport makes one xenophobic? I don't have one, but then I haven't ever had the opportunity to travel overseas. You do know that the bulk of North America is made of up 3 countries right? And until recently I didn't need a passport to visit Canada or Mexico. And frankly both are 8+ hours from where I live, although I have been to Mexico.

If you drive from one end of Texas to the other, it is about 850 miles (approx 1365 km). And that is just one state, granted one of the bigger ones. You can pass through a few different countries in Europe covering that same distance. And I haven't even been to most of the states in the US and I am considered pretty well traveled compared to most Americans.

The fact is, for the most part there isn't a necessity to travel overseas, and it isn't as simple as hopping in your car and heading out. If it was, I am sure Americans would travel to other countries more. My guess is most Europeans probably haven't been to say China, but I don't think that makes them Xenophobic...it is just far away.

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[–] FourDeuce 15 years ago

"Being a generous chap I'll ignore the business usage, that gives a huge 85% of US citizens without a passport, pretty xenophobic don't you think?"

Interesting "definition" of xenophobia you have there. I'd say it's quite a leap to claim that everybody who doesn't have a passport is xenophobic. :/

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[–] Mex5150 15 years ago

Hi

Interesting "definition" of xenophobia you have there. I'd say it's quite a leap to claim that everybody who doesn't have a passport is xenophobic.

I conceed it's not perfect, but it is a quick and easy indicator backed up by US government figures.

~Mex

--

Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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[–] FourDeuce 15 years ago

"I conceed it's not perfect, but it is a quick and easy indicator backed up by US government figures."

You have US government figures on xenophobia? I'd like to see them.

Also, quick and easy doesn't mean it's true. I prefer the dictionary definition of words rather than ones people make up to fit their arguments.
If you want an example, look at me. I'm 52 years old and never had a passport in my life. I was born in the US and have seen about half the states in the US. I've also been to Germany, Spain, Austria, England, France, and Italy. Does the fact that I don't have a passport mean I'm xenophobic?

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[–] Piccolloj 16 years ago

People "hate" America (and I'm not saying the topic creator just, just explaining my point of view here) because we're great but we're not great for anything noteworthy. Do you get that? That pisses people off seeing that. We aren't great but we will bomb and kill you if you screw around with us and people are willing to admit how great we are but you know what? Don't expect everyone else to like it. America is the "big guy" and naturally you don't care for the biggest guy in your neighborhood that can take you out unless you're close friends with him. I live in America and love America, these are just my two cents. I think we have more to fear from hardcore Christian right wingers wielding complete control over this country over what goes on in movies personally.

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[–] jamesbliss10 16 years ago

Wow.

It's disappointing to see even Americans say "we're not great." The media and Europe have been bashing us for so long I guess some Americans have become like abused wives. They really do start to see themselves as the ones who deserve such treatment.

You know the Europeans and the other foreigners with their scorn call us "nationalists." They call use the term "nationalists" because that is a European creation whereas they can only see either loyalty to the state or rebellion against it. However, we're not "nationalists" we're "Patriots." We're Patriots, because we hold to something more than just dirt and leaders we hold to a Constitution that holds to a larger ideal of liberty and justice for all.

We're not a perfect nation and we've had our challenges along with mistakes. However, when full measure is taken of all our past the good outweights the bad. The good outweights the bad, because we keep working toward that ideal of liberty and justice for all. We may stray along that path, but we always find it again and are guided by that light that lead our Founders to dare the dream of freedom.

We've defend liberty through two world wars. Our nation stood behind even our former enemies to protect them from the march of the Soviet Union. With our individual freedoms have come prosperity and with it invention. We've cured diseases, invented almost every modern accomplishment, put Men on the Moon, and even created the internet that allows all to share here now.

Throughout history the masses of the world have come here to seek a better life and in so doing have and continue to build a stronger nation. That's what America a special place. That's what burns in the hearts of Patriots. That's why Kevin Costner in "The Postman" says that he "Believes in the United States of America." It's a shinning city on a hill for those of use who count themselves Patriots and its something that those who live outside this nation resigned to never move here will never understand.

If you're an American count yourself lucky and find that belief in that ideal of liberty and justice for all. If you do you'll be a Patriot and the heart of a Patriot is stronger than any nationalist.

God Bless the United States of America.

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[–] kenmal-1 16 years ago

jamesbliss10 - when are you going to decide to run against Obama. Your naive and simplistic views sound just like what the GOP needs (and wants) right now.

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[–] JimmyPSX 15 years ago

stop hating on america you jackasses! I love the hatred toward the country that is going to give you free money when ur older with social security...

first of all I voted for McCain but guess what??? I love my country and Obama is my president and I want my country to succeed so I pull for my president...

The Postman is a movie about AMERICA! it is not democrat or republican...liberal or conservative...it is about our founding principals and if any american thinks this movie is too patriotic then they don't believe in American ideals...this is not a partisan movie...sorry if loving your country has become uncool or devisive but it isn't a crime to love where you come from

it sickens me because a lot of people who protest america and pretend that they are only protesting republicans or democrats are actually protesting against the very foundation of our country...but our constitution allows dissent...and the dissent it allows lets ignorants fight against it...it's sad but a reality we live in...

when you can no longer salute your flag in public without being hissed at...well...that time is now and it signals a bad day for us all

I love my country...I won't ever apologize for doing so...

I will toast you with my heartiest wine

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[–] one189teen50five 15 years ago

If you are so against America, then WHY are you here sucking up welfare benefits, unemployment benefits, and any other benefits America is so free to give. We are a free nation. We fought to be free. Do not trounce upon our red, white, and blue, and DO NOT take what we have to give while mumbling under your breath that you hate us. I am with Jimmyxx on this. I did vote for Prez Obama because he was the better man. If you don't like America, take yourselves and ALLLLLL of your relatives with you back to where you came from AND do it soon.

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[–] SteveResin 15 years ago

Nothing Yanks like more than a bit of flag waving, "God Bless America" and Hail To The Chief nonsense. I thank them for the "Hot Dog" tho....

"Kunta Kinte... yabba dabba dabba doo"

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[–] alerasoul 15 years ago

I also adored this movie as well, and thought the message at the end was completely fitting for a movie like this.

The fact is that America IS a great country. The only problem is the American government isn't so great. Still though, what makes America whole, the Constitution, the founding fathers, the people, free speech and all the rights we have, is why the American ideal and the people who live by it is what makes the country a great nation, above every other.

The only problem is the government, which is slowly sucking away the freedoms and liberties our fathers established. The country itself, with all its original ideals is what the movie is all about, and that's why this movie has one of the greatest end-messages of all films in my book. This movie is about the American everyman.

"Rescue the damsel in distress; kill the bad guy; save the world."
--Rick O'Connell

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[–] SteveResin 15 years ago

the American ideal and the people who live by it is what makes the country a great nation, above every other.

Oh dear. They just can't help themselves can they?

"Kunta Kinte... yabba dabba dabba doo"

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[–] alerasoul 15 years ago

Oh dear. They just can't help themselves can they?

Lol, my dad was born and raised in Iran, and he agrees w/ me.

Brits...

"Rescue the damsel in distress; kill the bad guy; save the world."
--Rick O'Connell

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[–] sendin 15 years ago

I have heard ppl say the us have done more good then bad but i've heard nothing specific. I'm just curious about what could possibly make up for the united states long history of slavery and total disregard for human life based on color of their skin and how come u still allow the clan to roam free in your back yard. Give up the war on drugs and put your resources on "the war on rasicm" instead...

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[–] alerasoul 15 years ago

Ok, let's play the race card. Again.

The "war on racism" is over, dead, and gone. It ended long ago in America. There may be some stragglers still around, but racism died long ago. If by "the clan" you mean the KKK I'm appalled you'd bring anything like that up. Really sendin, how many KKK organizations can you think of off the top of your head? Again, as I said, there may be a few stragglers, but racism's not an issue anymore. We have a black president now, if you haven't noticed. Personally, I didn't vote for him, and think he's doing a terrible job as it is, but that doesn't make me a racist. Hell, I voted for Alan Keyes instead: a black man.

...Unless you consider prejudice from blacks against white people, then you've got a whole load of it. Those who've read a bit too much into Malcolm X and Reverend Wright have gotten the idea that there IS racism in America still. No, I'd say there's a lot against whites. We even have a "Black History Month" for crying out loud, and STILL there are those who hold to the flawed concept of paranoia regarding whites against blacks. Even the taking seriously of "you people" as if they mean anything by it is childish. There are no more lynch mobs. There are no more black/white bus rules. There are no more restrictions of politics or college applications. Yet, there are those who believe it's still going on today in America, when it's not.

As far as America's "long history" of things, don't even get me started on Saudi Arabia, where it's still happening. Don't get me started on Great Britain, Russia, or Australia. Don't get me started, because you seem to think America was "alone" when it came to horrible acts. Yes, it's true America's had a history of terrible events and laws, but which country hasn't? We all make mistakes, sendin. But thank God we've learned from them.

"Rescue the damsel in distress; kill the bad guy; save the world."
--Rick O'Connell

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[–] one189teen50five 15 years ago

I DID vote for Prez. Obama and I was proud to see a black man finally become Prez. I am white. When I think about how the slaves were treated, I tell myself they have every right to become what they want to become. America is the greatest nation on earth. That being said, people who think all the troubles should just disappear are stupid. It took a long damn time for Bush to mess up things and it cannot be fixed overnight. Prez Obama has only been in less than a year. He's ironing out the wrinkles as fast as he can...and doing it without slavery.

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[–] alerasoul 15 years ago

So... Bush enforced slavery of blacks to fix problems? I don't think so. Last I looked, for the past 100 years, the presidents of America have accomplished or failed at all their various goals without the use of slavery.

And no, you should absolutely not vote for a guy because he's black. Vote for the man, not the melanin. I personally voted for a black guy, but he just happened to be black. I didn't vote for him because of that fact; that's wrong.

It's true, it's nice to see we've gotten past differences with blacks. But that doesn't hinder the fact that he's done a terrible job so far, his approval rating is in the 40s (meaning people that voted for him are now repenting their decision), and he's harboring communists. Reports a few days ago said that Obama is flying the Communist flag on the south lawn of the White House on Sep. 20th to commemorate China's 60th anniversary of becoming Communist. Obama's not a patriot, and he's not the choice for America. I fear that the primary reason he won the election was because he was black, and that shows the stupidity of the public mass in America.

....But I'm afraid we're getting EXTREMELY off-topic with this, as this is supposed to be about "The Postman," not "The Black Man." ;)

"Rescue the damsel in distress; kill the bad guy; save the world."
--Rick O'Connell

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[–] bayowolf 15 years ago

how come u still allow the clan to roam free in your back yard[?]

Aw, get a grip!! As long as they are non-violent, the Klan can roam free just as the Black Panthers can; it's something call the 1st Amendment--you should try it some time.
As far as the Klan roaming free is concerned, I lived half of my life in the South and I saw the white hoods once. The Klan is gettin' scarce.

~~Bayowolf
I see the fnords!!

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[–] the35mmman65 15 years ago

Nothing Yanks like more than a bit of flag waving, "God Bless America" and Hail To The Chief nonsense...

As opposed to "God Save The Queen" and Hail Brittania, ay?

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[–] SteveResin 15 years ago

Hail Brittania

It's RULE Brittania, get it right there's a good chap

I don't know anyone under 45 who gives a flying fig about the Queen or any of that nonsense.

"Kunta Kinte... yabba dabba dabba doo"

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[–] the35mmman65 15 years ago

I'm well aware that the SONG is "Rule Brittania". I wasn't speaking of that, but the phrase Hail Brittania.

However, it's good to know that the younger populace of the UK is turning it's back on all that pompous , annointed-by-heavenly-proxy Royals nonsense. Of course, you may come to appreciate them better once you all finally lay down and accept the coming installation of Sharia law.

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[–] TakiRP 15 years ago

Is there a phrase 'hail Britannia'? I've never heard of it... heil Hitler, yes, but never hail Britannia.
Anyway, I didn't see much rampant nationalism in the movie. If anything it was dominated by references and nods to Europe... Shakespeare, one of the Beatles as president, Andrew Floyd Webber (apparently not even nuclear war can rid us of his terrible musicals), even Holnest is a place in Dorset.

Here do all great sentiments decay: here may only rattle-boned
sensations rattle!

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[–] ekedin 14 years ago

I didn't see propaganda in this film, it's about what we stand for as a people. Did you know that the forefathers wanted us to always distrust our government? This movie is about loving what America was TRULY made for, not what it has become. It stood for freedom and peace, solitude and hard work, but over all, fun and love for all of this creation. It was all about working together - that was the only way the union could have been formed. Settle differences and work together because we the people wanted freedom from the oppressive British Empire at the time. America has become so tainted and I do understand the American flag is a major part of this movie, but that's what brings the memories of why this country exists and what it truly stands for. This movie shows how we got lost along the way and had infighting again since the civil war. America is its PEOPLE even if it seems like its Government. The government is supposed to work for us, but it has taken on its own agenda over time... it's a shame. But we still have the power to change it, we just had to demand it as a people. Democracy is not dead and don't let it die! Because it's the only form of political voicing of a nations people that we human beings have developed in history, even if its ideas aren't perfect - nothing is. Working together as one people is all that matters.

That's what I got from this movie.

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[–] WillyLee23 14 years ago

Fighting tyranny and establishing a civilized society is nationalistic propaganda, I totally agree.

American arrogance? I can see that I suppose. "All men are created equal" seems like a very arrogant ideal anyways...

On the flip side, Europe is not arrogant at all. I'm sure the French, Scottish, English, and Irish welcome each other as brothers-in-arms. The idea of royalty is not arrogant in the slightest. And we all know how devout the Catholic Church and Church of England have been throughout history, they never once took advantage of their authority.

And I, being an arrogant American, come from a long line of arrogant ancestors. My arrogant, German great-grandfather took a Swedish wife, my French-Canadian grandfather took a Scottish wife, English ancestor took an Irish wife, etc. How arrogant of them to mix with people of different cultures!

As a matter of fact, I can trace my arrogance to countries all over Europe where it mysteriously ends; it just doesn't exist their at all.

I suppose that ship voyage from the old country to north america must have caused a psychological disturbance in my family. It's a shame, really.

*end sarcasm*

And by the way, we don't call ourselves "Americans" because "we're so arrogant". That label stuck to differentiate between people who lived in the Olde World (Europe) and the New World (North America). So more than likely, the European countries are to blame for labeling us as "Americans" in the first place. I don't see why it's such a big deal anyways, it's just a name.

From my experience as a university student, many ROYAL and PRIVILEGED (IE WEALTHY) people from other countries visit or study in America. They also expect to be treated with the same regal attitude that they receive at home. But when they get no special treatment from Americans they become offended. They then go home and spread to the masses how arrogant we are.

Going to America expecting special treatment is ARROGANT in itself. Going ANYWHERE expecting special treatment is ARROGANT.

This is one universal ideal Americans have: to treat everyone as a human with equal respect. I don't care where you come from, how rich you are or who your family is. I don't recognize royalty or anyone else to be superior than I am. And I don't expect you to feel inferior to me as well. We should see each other respectfully as humans, eye-to-eye on an even level.

It's a shame that the only ambassadors the U.S. sends overseas are politicians, celebrities, or business executives who tend to be arrogant people already. And we're talking arrogant by "arrogant American" standards. Now THAT is arrogant.

*rolls eyes*

NEW QUESTION: Why do most countries have an inferiority complex towards "America"?

Discuss...

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[–] jfrenchy 13 years ago

this is a very interesting thread to read in its entirety with today's (summer 2011) political climate.

as for the end scene... it's just a bunch of people dedicating a monument to a hero. this is done in other countries as well

and that little girl was not singing the national anthem lol

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