Why did this movie flop? - Cutthroat Island (1995) Discussion

[–] Director-21 16 years ago

I don't even remember this movie coming out. In 1995 I was a 15 year old TV & movie fan who generally knew of every major film coming out but somehow this one slipped right under my radar. First thing I remember hearing of it was a trailer on some VHS tape in around 1996 when I said "how did I miss that?" and rented it from Blockbuster.

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[–] the_urban_prince 16 years ago

pink elephant in the room , basically female lead as action star. (among other things). but i think time will redeem it.

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[–] Tish-The-Scorpion 16 years ago

Having a female role that is more powerful than the male role

bingo....it is what it is.

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[–] Grant_Ritchie_superfan 16 years ago

Having watched it just a few days ago I`m surprised it was the major flop that it was. It`s a perfectly good pirate adventure film that I enjoyed start to finish.

It`s certainly not perfect but not deserving of its poor reputation at all.

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[–] leighburne 14 years ago

I think at the end of the day, it wasn't a flop because it's a terrible movie, it just cost so much to make that it was never going to recoup it's costs given who was involved with it (i.e. no huge Hollywood names to draw in the crowds). I also heard it was majorly under-promoted, which definitely wouldn't have helped.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] moonstruck4 12 years ago

possibly but maybe not. Need better script i think. A great female pirate movie is long overdue.

"I don’t know that I’d want to visit my brain
except with a gun and a flashlight.” Don Winslow

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[–] forums-52 16 years ago

I started to watch it last night and to be honest I think it flopped purely because Geena Davis was not the person for the role. I got as far as the ship firing on the coach (a far-fetched but entertaining scene) and switched off. I think a female lead role was perfectly fine but Geena couldn't pull of the snappy (cliched?) Indiana Jones style dialog (the sort that combines wit with a sense of urgency) required for such action scenes. It's a shame as otherwise I like her as an actor.

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[–] freelancespice 16 years ago

This is just a personal peeve, but I don't think anyone can give an accurate critique on a movie they have not seen in its entirety.

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[–] forums-52 14 years ago

If something is so awful for the first 15 minutes then I have learned to trust my judgement and to realise that life is too short to waste a further hour and a half - how many other things would you continue to suffer through if the first glimpse/taste/strains etc were truly repugnant?
Oddly my 15 minutes of suffering brought me to the same critical conclusion as a high number of posters to this thread.

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[–] jrichter10 16 years ago

That's funny- I had the exact same feeling toward Cutthroat. I was sixteen when it came out, and I saw it three times in the theatre, but I just bought it a couple of months ago in the $5 bin at the movie store. Still love it. I think it was because there were (are?) so few strong female roles that didn't have female stars over-exploiting their sexuality. Morgan was actually a character I identified with. Plus, all the action scenes were so great, and when it was released in the winter, the tropical locations were a relief...I'm so happy others are appreciating it now.

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[–] thejonesmanusa1978 16 years ago

It is very simple why this film flopped. It isn't very good, not a bad movie though either. Geena Davis is not at all suited for this role. She delivers her lines as if she is reading them off the page. Her fighting and action skills are obviously mediocre at best. Kudos to her for doing her own stunts, but is inexperienced and it shows. Though that is not really her fault I would say the director is to blame. Renny Harlin is a C-list director at best and it shows here.(I'll let his track record speak for itself.)

The slow motion action and fight scenes are ridiculous, especially when dialogue continues in real time. The only good acting performances in this film are Frank Langella, Chris Masterson, and the monkey.

Also, the lack of support from the studio was unfortunate, but Carolco already released Showgirls earlier that year an these two flops broke the studio. I don't think it had anything to do with a female in a action film had much to do with it's failure. (Tank Girl with Lori Petty and Fair Game with Cindy Crawford came out earlier the same year.)

Finally, there were alot better and popular movies released around the same time; GoldenEye, Casino, and 12 Monkeys and the family films Ace Ventura 2 and Jumanji all of which were some of the top grossing in 1995.

There you have it, the blueprint of a flop... That being said it is a fun movie on a rainy day or to watch with the kids.

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[–] okwong-e 16 years ago

It flopped because the concept (then) held no interest for the general audience, wasn't a good movie second and a female lead who wasn't a box office draw (that's the 90s for you).

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[–] DoomMarineid 9 years ago

The only reason why anyone would go to see this movies in 1995 would be because it starred Geena Davis who was in her prime. The only problem with her being cast was that she was never considered an action star, she had always done comedy and romantic drama.

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[–] eisphoenix-655-672150 9 years ago

I wouldn't actually consider The Fly comedy or romantic drama. I wouldn't even say that Geena Davis was in her prime in 1995, her name never was that big. Yes, she had had lead roles in Thelma & Louise (also not a comedy or romantic drama) in 1991 and in A League Of Their Own in 1992, and those were her most successful movies. A League Of Their Own was successful in the US, but outside of the US not many people saw it (it's a baseball movie, and outside of the US baseball is pretty irrelevant), so internationally speaking the only real successful lead role under her belt was (and by the way, still is) Thelma. After Cutthroad Island she starred in another flop (The Long Kiss Goodnight, which also isn't a bad movie), which was basically the end for her Hollywood carreer.

Her name surely was never big enough to carry an entire movie.

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[–] richaceh 14 years ago

Best review yet.

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[–] filmbuff1974 16 years ago

The acting was pretty bad and Geena Davis was miscast. I'm not saying a woman doesn't make a good pirate, I'm saying Geena Davis as a woman pirate was not convincing at all. Matthew Modine was wasted in this film as well. That's why it was a flop. The totally unrealistic stunts the characters go through didn't help either. The production design and costumes. however, were pretty impressive!

Live Long and Prosper!

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[–] masetodd 15 years ago

We all loved the movies we saw as kids, but that doesn't make them good. I agree with the above posters - bad acting, lame slow-motion, silly story, etc. Just because you put great, big explosions in a movie (and they were pretty spectacular), that doesn't make it a good action movie.

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[–] eisphoenix-655-672150 9 years ago

Just because you put great, big explosions in a movie (and they were pretty spectacular), that doesn't make it a good action movie.

I wish somebody would consider telling Michael Bay about this.

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[–] buttoncat 15 years ago

I agree with the low-ad-budget theory. It almost amounts to sabotage, this is such a great movie. Probably spent all their budget on the movie itself.

This is my favorite pirate movie of ALL. Somehow I could picture myself right in the action.

The script was tremendous, and IMHO these are the best performances by both Geena Davis and Frank Langella anywhere. My favorite scene is the swordfight between Langella and Davis up in the sail rigging of the ship. Wow!

Swashing and buckling. Incredible natural beauty. (And, for the feminists in the audience, a great and satisfying female lead role. Arguably the best.)

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[–] gormly 15 years ago

As a disclaimer, I must say I actually liked this movie, I enjoyed it.

~~~

I am not sure why anyone hasn't said this yet...Maybe the PC world we are living in, everyone is so afraid.

It flopped because the lead was a woman.
It flopped because the lead was Geena Davis.
It flopped because the lead was Geena Davis as a swashbuckling pirate.

All three are a factor. Change anyone, and this movie might have succeeded.

Don't get me wrong, I love Geena Davis, I love women and I have no issues with a woman being a lead, it isn't even a thought for me. I don't consider that when I watch a movie. Some of my favorite movies/shows are female leads.

That said... usually, men (and women) like to see men in this type of role. Especially pirates. If "Die Hard" had a female lead do you think it would have been as successful? The answer is no.

A female pirate is just not believable.

Some have said it was marketing.. but they either have faulty memories or are trying to misdirect the actual reason. The marketing for this film was ridiculous, it was supposed to be the biggest hit EVAR! The trailers, posters and mentions were EVERYWHERE!

Geena Davis was BIG at this time, Hero, Thelma and Louise, Angie.. she was one of the biggest female stars out there and they tried to build a blockbuster around her. The problem is, she wasn't and never will be believable in high action.

I think that if the producers of The Long Kiss Goodnight knew how this movie would have been received, they would have stopped shooting and changed the lead.

I know many of you will read this as a male hating on females or some ridiculous crap like that, but this is the actual truth. You can't MAKE people believe in a female pirate, and that is why it failed.

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[–] semsox 15 years ago

I'm not so sure I agree this movie flopped because of a female lead playing a pirate. I will agree the performance was a little flat by Davis, but lets not forget one of the best action films to ever hit the big screen was led by Sigourney Weaver in "ALIENS". It's all in the performance. Had Geena Davis pulled a Sig Weaver,or Karen Allen (Raiders Of The Lost Ark) type performance this movie could have been a hit.

From professional reviews I have read, they all say the same thing, that lack of marketing sunk this movie. By the way, this movie looks, and sounds great on Blu-ray. I had never seen this until I rented the blu-ray version this year. I have to admit, I enjoyed it so much that I bought it. $9.99 at "Best Buy" was a steal.

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[–] gormly 15 years ago

Sigourney Weaver played a Lieutenant on a space mining ship, which is perfectly plausable and will happen when we do start mining in space.

Women can do anything today... in the age of the pirates, it was a different story.

So, believability is key.

It's one thing to wish to be pogressive realizing a woman can do anything a man can (which is true), it's another to suspend reality to rewrite the past.
That is the problem with this movie.

Women were not swashbuckling pirates, they were not captains of vessels, they would not be in a position to command men. Period. Not then. Perhaps today if there were still pirates, maybe we'd have a band of raiders led by a woman, who knows.. but then it just wasn't plausible.

That is what I meant by saying this movie flopped because of a female lead playing a pirate. This movie flopped because of Geena Davis playing a pirate. There are subconsious triggers we all carry, regardless of our progresive (or lack thereof) attitudes, and that colors our expectations and pre-judgements.

It didn't flop because of marketing, that's what I am saying here, "they" are not being honest, they are trying to pin it on something else because no one can bring themselves to be honest.

I remember the marketing, it's one of the few campaigns I do remember about a movie, the fact that I even remember the blitz for the movie before I had even watched it years later on DVD indicates the magnitude of the marketing. Anyone saying different is rewriting history to be PC.

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[–] semsox 15 years ago

"It's one thing to wish to be pogressive realizing a woman can do anything a man can (which is true), it's another to suspend reality to rewrite the past.
That is the problem with this movie.

Women were not swashbuckling pirates"

History doesn't agree with you,

You can find this article on the internet if you're interested in reading more about them.

"Two of the most famous female pirates were Anne Bonney and Mary Read. Both Anne and Mary were known for their violent tempers and ferocious fighting, and they shared a reputation as "fierce hell cats." Their fellow crewmembers knew that -- in times of action -- no one else was as ruthless and bloodthirsty as these two women were."

"Ching Shih
Ching Shih terrorized the China Sea in the early 19th century. A brilliant female pirate, she commanded 1800 ships and about 80,000 pirates."

The fact is we weren't around back than, so who knows what women we're doing back than. Safe to say these three wouldn't qualify as soccer moms.

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[–] hugobolso-1 15 years ago

And Geena Davis was highly misscast.
And Mathew Mondine too.
The character was too slutty, and none was interested is seeing the Thelma and Lewis star as a Femele Pirate Slutty.
maybe with Sharon or Kim, and Brad Pitt or Val Kilmer as the hero, the movie earn much more money, but still a FLOP.

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[–] 807 15 years ago

1. Unperfect timing. Those who simply wanted to see a good movie had many other options, from GoldenEye through 12 Monkeys and Jumanji, to Casper. Whether the producers of CTI aimed for more mature audience or something more PGish, they had a competition.

2. The Sorcerer Factor. Had William Friedkin not turned down Steve McQueen, his "Sorcerer" would have been probably a financial success. Roy Scheider's star factor simply wasn't that good. The same here: Geena Davis is a good actor, but her star potential at the time wasn't great enough to carry this movie; Langella, the same - an excellent actor, but definitely not a star. The lesser I say about Modine the better. Fine character actor, but a star? Please!

3. I remember an interview with Roman Polański, in which he mentioned that his most difficult movie ever to be made were "Pirates". Polański stated that shooting a picture on the sea was the biggest logistical and technical quagmire he ever faced. (The galleon built for the purpose of that movie cost more that the entire movie earned at box office.) This seriously affected the budget, and Carolco at the time strugged financially because of Showgirls.

4. The rules are simple: Cut the costs wherever realistically possible. This production was legendary of its vast excesses: one of the workers who worked at dismantling the sets after filming, recalled that there were trucks loaded with cartons of V8 juice, of which both Davis and Harlin were huge fans. Had they reduced the costs and pump the cash into a bigger star and promotion.

5. Yea, promotion. Several people learned about the movie when they were told it was a huge flop. Need I say more.

The movie by itself is OK: sometime I have an impression that the action is somewhat excessive, which makes the movie resemble some cartoon rather than a serious picture, and Modine, good character actor by himself - remember "Full Metal Jacket", "The Birdy" or "Streamers"? - simply is miscast in his role. But generally, I liked this picture. Davis was fine, but Langella stole the show.

This is not a signature.

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[–] Jealous_Skunk 15 years ago

Are you *beep* kidding me! Her character wasn't slutty at all. Just because she slept with 1 man in the beginning that doesn't make her a slut.

You said Kim and Sharon would make better pirate. LOL! Hahaahhaahahahahahahahhhahahaahahah! Are you *beep* kidding me? They are the biggest sluts in the world. I mean they are suitable to play roles that are the biggest sluts in the world. They are weak and sissy and not believable at all. They are not badass and they don't have the charm and the charisma and the aura to play a pirate. Geena was perfectly cast. Maybe she delivered few of the lines badly but she's a badass!

JeSkuNk

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[–] metalacuity 15 years ago

Thank You Semsox, it seems gormly likes to just talk out of his rear.... I was just about to post a list of Female Pirates and scrolled one more down before I did to see you set him straight. I can't believe he thought there no women Pirates HA!! In fact women were some of the most Ruthless ones......

As for the Movie itself I think it is a Great movie, and it is sad that it was a flop at the Box Office. Although there are many great movies which are torn apart by critics and such at first and 10-20 years later they are Cult Classics loved by many.

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[–] 15 years ago

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