MovieChat Forums > Tombstone (1993) Discussion > Who Was the Best Doc Holliday?

Who Was the Best Doc Holliday?

posted 3 years ago by ecarle (14979)
24 replies | jump to latest

Personally, I think that Doc Holliday is a "foolproof" role and a gift to any actor who got to play him.

Doc is usually set up as the "tragic and flamboyant friend" to the stoic and stalwart Wyatt Earp. Whoever plays Earp gets the thankless role.

Except, I think, in Tombstone, where Kurt Russell's lines are as well written as Val Kilmer's -- recall Earp's great scene with Billy Bob Thornton -- "Skin that smokewagon...pull that pistol and go to work!"

Anyway, Doc Holliday is a foolproof great role. And we've had a lot of them.

We also had two "near misses" -- actors who almost played Doc but didn't get to:

James Stewart. Considered to play opposite Henry Fonda in "My Darling Clementine." That would have been great, but director John Ford felt that so-so Victor Mature looked more like Doc.

Humphrey Bogart -- pencilled in for "Gunfight at OK Corral" as Doc, Bogart ironically died of lung cancer himself before filming could start. He would have been great had he lived just long enough to play the part.

In a bad break in cinematic history, Dennis Quaid went into production of "Wyatt Earp" as Doc Holiday with Kevin Costner as Wyatt just in time to be beaten to theaters by the unbeatable Russell/Kilmer combo in "Tombstone". This even as Quaid got a lot of press for starving himself down to 100 pounds or something.

I may be wrong, but I don't think anybody else has tried to play Doc Holliday since Val Kilmer so thoroughly retired the role.

Here are some Doc Hollidays over time, and my rankings of them:

Val Kilmer Tombstone. Memorable line after memorable line, a great decadent Southern aristocrat accent and a sad, sickly demeanor. This is the most "love story" version of Wyatt and Doc. The best Doc.

Kirk Douglas. Gunfight at the OK Corral. Burt Lancaster was Wyatt. "Kirk and Burt" worked as team in a lot of movies. They were called "the Twin Terrors" for their power on screen and their egos offscreen. But as Gunfight at OK Corral proved, Kirk was always the more dangerous actor of the two, the more able to reach deep and play both mean and a bit crazy. His face was too chiseled and rodentoid to last too long as a matinee idol, but the power was always there. Doc is Wyatt's friend, but a raging, dangerous one. (Jo Ann Fleet was a not-too-pretty punching bag to Doc, here, not a good look.)

Jason Robards. Hour of the Gun. Robard was reputedly a great stage actor, and -- in his prime -- a wry, dry-voiced movie star of the second tier. A drunken car wreck in the 70's rather ruined his face ever after, but he still had a good face in Hour of the Gun, and with Doc's moustache and Robards salt-and-pepper hair, he made a cerebral, cynical foil to Superhandsome Block-Like James Garner as Earp. This story is set AFTER the OK Corral and has some of the tragic killings and vengeance of Tombstone's second half. The usually amiable Garner is mean and merciless here; Robards as Doc is more of a hectoring conscience to Earp.

Dennis Quaid. In Wyatt Earp. I don't remember a thing about his performance in Wyatt Earp, but I remember his skeletal body and how impressed I was with how bad he was willing to look. Quaid had a toothy grin that could make his face handsome, but if he dropped it, he could look a bit dumb and inbred. I recall his Doc Holliday as having that quality. I can't remember a line he had. And I don't think Costner gave Quaid the "man love" that Russell gave Kiilmer.

Harris Yulin. Doc. I haven't seen this movie, but I've read reviews. Harris Yulin was Doc Holliday --and actually got the title of the movie. Stacy Keach was Wyatt Earp. Faye Dunaway was the REAL star name here, I recall the film having an "arty, dirty, countercultural reputation." I know that I loved Yulin as the crooked cop Pacino kills in Scarface -- he had an interesting face, ugly and handsome at the same time. Dunaway had an affair with Yulin during and after this picture and praised him as a nice, good man. I must see this.

Victor Mature, My Darling Clementine. Perhaps because I know that Jimmy Stewart missed out to co-star with his friend Henry Fonda on this, this is my least favorite of the Doc Hollidays I've seen. The film is hindered by its 1946 year of making -- it can't really play the action hard and fast as later films could. Most memorable -- I think this is the only version where Doc Holliday dies DURING the OK Corral shootout, clutching his big white tuberculosis hankerchief like a flag of surrender as he collapses from bullets. Hence: no deathbed scene.

Did I miss anybody?

[–] KinkyInk (1694) 3 years ago

I haven't seen it, but Willie Nelson played the Doc in the 1986 TV movie 'Stagecoach', with Johnny Cash, Kris Kristofferson, and Waylon Jennings.

Looks interesting. I'll have to check it out.

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

There you go! Another one. Thanks.

I think I recall that Cesar Romero (the TV Joker on Batman) played Doc in some early version. Doc Holliday and the Joker. That's two great roles..if not in the best versions.

[–] ExTechOp (2770) 3 years ago

Does Randy Quaid count?

https://moviechat.org/tt0158131/Purgatory

Of course, that's Doc without Wyatt, without TB and without his guns, but still...

Funny that he'd play the same role his brother played ... something I never realized until now.

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

Does Randy Quaid count?

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Absolutely! I did not know that ..its part of the value of this thread for me. "More Doc Hollidays" of whom I did not know.

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Of course, that's Doc without Wyatt, without TB and without his guns, but still...

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Good enough. Wyatt isn't in the Stagecoach with Willie Nelson either as I recall.

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Funny that he'd play the same role his brother played ... something I never realized until now.

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Nor I. Nifty trivia. Thanks.

[–] TMC-4 (20124) a year ago

Adam West also portrayed Doc Holliday:
https://youtu.be/8t86NjXDPkU

So he and Val Kilmer can lay claim that they both played Batman and Doc Holiday.

[–] DoctorThirteen (13936) a year ago

That is a very interesting piece of trivia 👍

(And looking online I see that West actually played Holliday three(!) times, on three different TV westerns which aired on ABC — Sugarfoot, Colt .45, and Lawman.)

[–] Darren (1342) 3 years ago

I have to admit that "My Darling Clementine" has always been my least favorite John Ford film, I think mostly because I love historical movies, and when it comes to depicting historical characters and historical events from the real world, I am always more interested in the real story than in any fictionalized version -- and "My Darling Clementine" bears NO resemblance to the real events. It has the Earps, Doc Holliday, and the Clantons in Tombstone, and that's about as close to the real story as it gets. I've never understood why movie makers do this either: take a real event, that is among the most interesting and dramatic in history already, and use it as a mere backdrop to tell a totally fictional story that's actually less interesting.

It's hard to believe that Ford thought Victor Mature -- Victor Mature who played Samson the biblical strong man, and who was famous for his (by the standards of that era) muscular, athletic physique -- a better match for the skeletally thin, tubercular Doc Holliday than the lanky James Stewart. I think Stewart's facial features, while not especially like Doc's, were still closer than Mature's were too.

But I have to say Kilmer remains far and away my favorite representation of Doc Holliday on screen. I actually thought Dennis Quaid did a damn good job, and I've read that some old west historians consider his is probably the more historically accurate portrayal, but he just had the misfortune to compete with Kilmer's version, who absolutely stole every scene he was in.

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

I'm with you in general on My Darling Clementine. I saw it AFTER Gunfight at OK Corral and I'm amazed they decided to kill off Holliday during the gunfight in the ok corral.

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It's hard to believe that Ford thought Victor Mature -- Victor Mature who played Samson the biblical strong man, and who was famous for his (by the standards of that era) muscular, athletic physique -- a better match for the skeletally thin, tubercular Doc Holliday than the lanky James Stewart. I think Stewart's facial features, while not especially like Doc's, were still closer than Mature's were too.

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As I think I mentioned up thread, I read that Ford rejected Stewart because he felt Mature looked more like Holliday. If that's impossible...I guess Ford just didn't want to work with Stewart at the time. They'd work together years later, back to back, in the so-so "Two Rode Together" and the great "Man Shot Liberty Valance."

Given that Humphrey Bogart -- dying from lung cancer himself -- was originally cast as Holliday in Gunfight at the OK Corral -- we lost two very interesting Doc Holliday performances by Stewart and Bogart. Like I say, its a "foolproof" role for an actor, the guy playing Wyatt has to work overtime to be noticed (and Kurt Russell DID so with Val Kilmer -- thanks to the script.)

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CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

But I have to say Kilmer remains far and away my favorite representation of Doc Holliday on screen. I actually thought Dennis Quaid did a damn good job, and I've read that some old west historians consider his is probably the more historically accurate portrayal, but he just had the misfortune to compete with Kilmer's version, who absolutely stole every scene he was in.

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Misfortune indeed. Imagine if ONLY Wyatt Earp(the Costner/Quaid version) had been released at all. Perhaps people would be singing the praises of Quaid as the best Doc Holliday(what with the weight loss and all.) But no...Val Kilmer got there first, with better lines(Tombstone has a GREAT dialogue script), and a truly original verbal and visual take on the man. Kilmer was also quite the good looking fellah back then, so he added a good dose of sex appeal to the role.

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

I return to note that I have just watched Kevin Costner's "Wyatt Earp" (1994) for the first time in many years and I got a chance to see both Dennis Quaid's version of Doc Holliday and the overlarge, overlong film in which it appears. Interesting all the way around.

I'm reminded that Kevin Costner came to Wyatt Earp with a tremendous amount of power. He had had a string of "all hits, one miss" from 1987 to 1992:

The Untouchables
No Way Out
Bull Durham
Field of Dreams
Dances With Wolves (The BIG one; Oscars for Best Picture and for him as Best Director)
Revenge (The miss)
JFK
The Bodyguard

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But there was lurking danger in Costner's "Dances With Wolves" success. He made that bet on his terms -- very long movie, very focused on himself, very "epic" in scope -- and Costner's continued desire to focus on himself in overlong epics was about to backfire on him:

Wyatt Earp
Waterworld
The Postman

....three almost in a row(less the lighter Tin Cup) overlong, overpriced flops (well, Waterworld drew audiences but couldn't make enough money back to earn) undid all of Costner's "epic movie star and producer" momentum, undid ALL those earlier hits, and him in a multi-decade spiral down from top stardom, even as he kept at the kind of career rehabilitation that has led to his Big Comeback: TV stardom(paid streaming version) on Yellowstone.

But back in 1994, Costner was still riding high on his "prestige star power" and though Dennis Quaid IS great as Doc Holliday, he's rather lost in the shuffle in a movie that is very clearly focused on KEVIN COSTNER and can only barely acknowledge Doc and Wyatt as a "platonic man love team."

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

Two big errors:

ONE: Doc Holliday enters the movie too LATE. Doc Holliday enters the long movie almost 90 MINUTES into it. Coster wanted that first hour-plus to focus on Wyatt and his loves and his family before bringing the Great Doc in. Worse, Doc enters having to introduce himself TO Earp, their relationship needs time in this one to get going.

TWO: Doc Holliday leaves the movie too EARLY He's rather just abandoned after a final gunbattle in a canyon(with opponents who were vivid in Tombstone like Johnny Ringo dispatched in a minor key way -- we don't really know who they are.

With Doc just abandoned and left without a big death scene (as he gets in Tombstone), the movie goes on to give Costner's Earp a big flashback showdown with a lynch mob and ends on he and his bride. With requisite "happened after" titles that TELL US about Doc Holliday dying.

I suppose that Costner and his writer-director Lawrence Kasdan didn't want to mimic Tombstone and the Wyatt/Doc love story to the end, but the end result is rather a "Kevin Costner Vanity Project" that was the first step in his big fall from grace. (Though Costner battled the Kurt Russell-Val Kilmer Tombstone, a few years later, the chastened Costner took a movie with Russell about some casino robbers who looked like Elvis. No hard feelings.)

All that said, Dennis Quaid DOES make his mark as Doc Holliday in a variety of ways:

Yep, he's skeletal, with legs that look like pipe cleaners and a scene with Costner standing against a bar where Quaid's face looks like a skull with skin on it -- its like 91-year old Clint Eastwood(Cry Macho) except in his 40's.

But he's still got that "cool" Doc Holliday look, stylized as Val Kilmer was via goatee and beard, with the "flourish" of tiny little sunglasses that give the skull a hip look. He has longer hair than Kilmer did, the effect is of a dessicated Wild Bill Hickock in shades.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

And while Quaid doesn't quite get the offbeat classic lines like "I'm your Huckleberry" or "You're a Daisy if you do,"he gets some pretty good one liners anyway: "Don't put off to tomorrow killing someone you can kill today" and a pretty profane line(Kilmer never said something like this) in which he invites his foes to "kiss my Rebel dick."

Quaid as Holliday also gets a good serious speech in which he professes a willingness to join Earp in a blaze of glory finish because "the other side looks better to me than being here."

Director Lawrence Kasdan directed a great 1985 Western(with a young and new Costner) called Silverado that had some great gunfights, but he was doomed in Wyatt Earp to have to stage a Gunfight at the OK Corral that had none of the style and precision -- especially with regard to Doc Holliday's skills -- of Tombstone. Methinks the now Great and Powerful Costner held Kasdan to less snappy direction than in Silverado. And hence, Quaid's Doc gets no show offy moments in the OK gunfight, nor even a separate showdown with Johnny Ringo. This (again) is a Kevin Costner Showcase.

Oh well, Dennis was more than good enough. Extra points for weight loss and "flavor" put him above Jason Robards in my book, now. (And hey -- Quaid's Southern accent isn't all that off from Kilmer's, and Isabella Rosselli as HIS whore-companion is a good match for Joanna Pacula in Tombstone.)

Verdict:

Dennis Quaid: Just fine as Doc Holliday, but not as well written or well covered as Val Kilmer in Tombstone.

Reason:

Kevin Costner's big head at the time.

[–] JoWilli (19957) 3 years ago

I'm Your Huckleberry

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

You're a Daisy if you do

[–] CraigC (8160) 3 years ago

Dennis Quaid did a fantastic job. His portrayal was overshadowed by Val's because Tombstone was a FAR better movie than Wyatt Earp. I also really liked Costner's version of Wyatt Earp but the rest of the cast was lacking. So were the costumes, guns and leather rigs. They went to a huge amount of effort to make Tombstone feel authentic and it shows. Wyatt Earp was made like it would've been in the `80's. If you simply replaced Russell and Kilmer with Costner and Quaid in Tombstone, it still would've been great. As the old man used to say, Wyatt Earp was cut out right but sewn up wrong.

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

Dennis Quaid did a fantastic job.

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Yes...I've now looked at Wyatt Earp twice, and listened to his dialogue (by Lawrence Kasdan, no slouch -- he wrote part or all of Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Empire Strikes Back, The Big Chill, Body Heat and the Western Silverado), and he certainly makes his mark on the role. I suppose the weight loss is HIS claim to fame on the role. But the Wild Bill Hickock look and the tiny sunglasses give him distinction.

Still, I return to my OP contention -- pretty much ANY actor who got to play Doc Holliday got a helluva memorable role to play. I believe that Oscar winner Jack Palance said "the Oscar isn't won for the acting, its won for the character," and though NONE of the Doc Hollidays got an Oscar nomination, Doc is clearly one of the great characters of all time.

That said, I think the one actor who did NOT make a mark with Doc Holliday was the one who got the title role in "Doc" -- Stacy Keach, otherwise an actor of great power and great voice, saddled in that film with far too dreary and realistic a take on Doc. I finally saw that one in the last year; now my set is pretty complete.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

(Quaid's) portrayal was overshadowed by Val's because Tombstone was a FAR better movie than Wyatt Earp.

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Yeah, Tombstone has the reputation and the cult. I suppose the irony is that while Costner seet out to make a "serious epic" in the tradition of his Oscar winning Dances With Wolves, Tombstone had the courage of its "B" convictions -- it was an action movie designed to move right along from snappy, memorable scene to the next -- all the while retaining the emotion of the Earp/Doc "love story" and the tragedy of the Earp brothers.

But I think this was key: "Wyatt Earp" was designed to favor its star -- Kevin Costner. Whereas in Tombstone, Kilmer's Doc gets a few scenes "all to himself" (his first attack on a fellow menacing poker player; his tin cup duel with Johnny Ringo, his final surprise showdown with Ringo) , in Wyatt Earp, Quaid's Doc gets no such "freedom." He plays all of his scenes WITH Costner, or Costner is in the same room. And as I noted above, Quaid arrives very late in the movie, and leaves early.

The thing is: in 1994 , Kevin Costner was ENTITLED to do this to Quaid, to make him more of a supporting actor than a co-lead. Indeed, if you look at both Tombstone and Wyatt Earp, you will see many of Costner's "vanquished" male peers in both casts. Kurt Russell and Dennis Quaid were both considered "second tier" in the 80s and 90s. The Big Easy); they could get leads(especially Russell) but not always in the biggest movies(The Mean Season, The Big Easy). Same with Val Kilmer(though Tombstone would MAKE him a bigger star, for awhile.) Meanwhile, you've got Mark Harmon as a baddie in Wyatt Earp sharing a scene with Costner. Well, Harmon had gotten to co-star with Sean Connery in The Presidio the year after Costner co-starred with Connery in The Untouchables and -- no contest. Costner was a movie star. Harmon was not(he'd make HIS zillions in TV later.)

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

In the early 90's, Kevin Costner was simply a much bigger and more important star than most other guys. Dances With Wolves(Best Picture, Best Director) and JFK gave him "Oscar bona fides," and they were hits but he had OTHER hits -- The Bodyguard was huge; He beat his own miscasting as Robin Hood, etc.

But then a funny thing happened. Hollywood has a way of "cutting people down to size" and they rather gave Kevin Costner enough rope to hang himself by making the over-long and/or overexpensive films Wyatt Earp(totally trounced in advance by Tombstone), Waterworld, and The Postman.

I daresay that Kurt Russell may just have outdistanced Costner over the decades as a "draw."

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

I also really liked Costner's version of Wyatt Earp but the rest of the cast was lacking.

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Well, with Wyatt Earp so centered on -- Wyatt Earp(Kevin Costner) -- it does seem like his co-stars were a bit short-changed.

Its funny -- the same bad guys are in Tombstone and Wyatt Earp -- but they have SO much more impact in Tombstone. Powers Boothe with his evil "Bye"; and Stephen Lang as a the bullying coward Ike Clanton and Michael Biehn as the learned Johnny Ringo -- even "early stars" like Billy Bob Thornton as a weak bully and Thomas Hayden Church as -- Thomas Hayden Church.

Meanwhile, Kurt Russell was willing to take the risk of letting the Ultra Cowboy Sam Elliott play one of his brothers -- with Bill Paxon as the other.

Helluva cast!

As I recall, other than Michael Madsen, Costner didn't have "names" as his brothers, and the bad guys were undefined.

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So were the costumes, guns and leather rigs.

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The effort to "cutting Kevin Costner down to size" began with buying out all the good costumes for Tombstone before Wyatt Earp went into production. I think Kevin had to go to Europe to buy his.

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They went to a huge amount of effort to make Tombstone feel authentic and it shows. Wyatt Earp was made like it would've been in the `80's.

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I guess so. Costner was a star born in the 80s, and writer-director Kasdan made HIS bones in the 80's.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

If you simply replaced Russell and Kilmer with Costner and Quaid in Tombstone, it still would've been great.

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That's a great point! The movies came out so close together, Costner and Quaid would have "fit" Tombstone, and if Quaid had Kilmer's lines and scenes -- PLUS his weight loss -- it coulda been something.

Note in passing: Not only is Doc Holliday a great character, he gets a great "foil" in that hooker who travels around with him as sado-masochistic lover, sidekick and henchman. Kilmer got Joanna Pacula(good); Quaid got Isabella Rosselli(better, and a DEAD RINGER in voice and look for her mother Ingrid Bergman.) Meanwhile, Wyatt Earp has those soap opera wives and happy ending romance.

BTW, I "see" Quaid in Tombstone, but Costner would have to lighten up in as Wyatt in the Russell role. Russell gets that great early scene(with great dialogue), slapping Billy Bob Thornton around. Harder to picture oh-so-serious Costner there. But I'm sure he could do it.

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As the old man used to say, Wyatt Earp was cut out right but sewn up wrong.

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Ha! Great phrase. I will have to remember that.

[–] Darren (1342) a year ago

Not sure how I missed this when I commented on this post earlier...

You note that you haven't seen the movie starring Stacy Keach and Harris Yulin. I'm afraid that's evident: you reversed their roles. Harris Yulin didn't play Doc Holliday, Stacy Keach did. Yulin played Wyatt Earp. I remember seeing the movie as a kid on TV, and not thinking much of it. It's even less accurate to the historical events than My Darling Clementine.

[–] ecarle (14979) a year ago

Oops. And guess what. Since then i have seen Doc and ...now Ive forgotten it again. It did choose to pick Doc as the title character. I recall a more cynical and brutal take on the characters.

[–] Kowalski (75528) a year ago

DOUGLAS WAS GREAT...AND HENRY FONDA IS A FAVORITE OF MINE AND HE NAILED THE ROLE...BUT VAL KILMER SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN BORN TO PLAY THE ROLE...ABSOLUTE PERFECTION.

[–] liscarkat (18373) a year ago

"The film is hindered by its 1946 year of making..."

No film is hindered in any meaningful way by having been made in 1946.