MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983) Discussion > Why didn't original Palpatine survive De...

Why didn't original Palpatine survive Death Star II?


Back in 1983 it wasn't really a debate, the Emperor was dead, his best troops defeated by Ewoks, a tiny pin-prick A-Wing engulfed the bridge tower of the Executor Super-class Star Destroyer into flames, and the Death Star II exploded shortly thereafter. George had to end his trilogy so the corners had to be cut to do it and quick.

However, since then we've had the Expanded Universe (1977-2014), novels, comics, PC & console games, Special Edition, prequel movies and now Disneyverse (2014-), sequels, spinoffs, cartoons, you name it.

For some reason, Darth Vader (Anakin Skywalker) tossed Emperor Palpatine down the Emperor's tower (not a reactor shaft, the Emperor's tower is at the very top of Death Star II), thinking that it would end him when after seeing all the above canon and non-canon works of Star Wars, one would simply deduce that Vader would realize Palpatine could easily slow his descent onto one of the below catwalks, and make his way back to the Throne Room using force jump (or a service elevator), surprising and ending Luke and Vader at their most vulnerable.

Instead, Palpatine keeps firing lightning, screaming like an idiot, and falls to his apparent doom, not even attempting to slow his descent or grab onto one of the many catwalks below. When Palpatine reaches the strange electrical glow below, he turns into a bluish-purplish mist and the rest is history.

We could say it was all part of Palpatine's plan to die and then re-emerge decades later in a failed attempt to take over the galaxy, but why bother with that when he could have re-emerged minutes later and wiped out Luke and Vader very quickly?

I suspect the force lightning and his hatred of Luke probably had something to do with him losing control and falling to his doom, but it still seems odd.

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Forget what the EU books have mislead you to believe. George Lucas has stated only his movies are canon. The EU books have always just been a way for George to get money from suckers who don't realize the books barely have anything to do with Star Wars.

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No one every got rich over-estimating the intelligence of the average Star War fan.

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The EU was heavily supported, maybe not always by George, but by many of his cohorts and publishers, and at least a good chunk of the books and comics were fantastic. Nevermind the dozens of amazing Star Wars PC games in the 90s like TIE Fighter, Dark Forces, and Rogue Squadron.

George loved Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy so much he named the capital city of the Republic and later Empire, Coruscant--which was first named by Zahn in the book Heir to the Empire. Friggin awesome. Had Abaddon was the original name George had in mind, I believe.

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"suckers who don't realize the books barely have anything to do with Star Wars"... Harsh. And a very singular way of looking at professional fiction written about a fictional universe. I don't really care about Star Wars fiction cuz I get all I want and more from the movies, but I do have fond memories of plenty of Star Trek fiction, and I never gave a rat's ass if it was somehow "canon"...

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Why didn't Palpatine survive? What kind of question is this? Because once upon a time, there was only meant to be 3 movies.

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Actually, George wanted 9 movies at one point if memory serves. I dunno, something to talk about, seeing as how Palpatine's decades in waiting re-emergence as galactic overlord in Rise of Skywalker was a total flop.

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No, he didn't have 9 movies planned from the beginning. He spouted that nonsense once he started calling the originals 4, 5, and 6, which was after their theatrical releases. This is supposedly his "original" script: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars. The guy talks out of his ass.

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Agree. With the first Star Wars, it was legit just a single film project. George had no standing to say he wanted a 9 film saga. Even the idea of a single sequel would have been so far out of his grasp. But once Star Wars became the success it was, of course marketing would insist on more. But you could tell Lucas had no over all plan. Everything he had done in the original trilogy was as he went along. That's why I would get so annoyed when he tried to say 'I had the prequels planned all along!' no he didn't! you could tell the way the story went, he never had them planned prior to the original movie like he tried to claim.

That all being said, I believe there is footage of a Mark Hamill interview from the early 80s...possibly to promote Empire...saying he had 9 planned (or at least the later trilogy...I can't remember) and saying that he would be the trainer or whatever in the following 3 movies. But I doubt Palatine coming back would have been apart of that. I'd still love to know what was in the treatment Lucas gave Disney that they rejected.

I hate the idea of trying to reinvent history. There is no shame in saying I made these films up on the fly. Trying to convince people you had this epic plan destined idea for a 9 movie SAGA about space pirates just always came off fake and cheap to me. You'll never get me to believe those prequels they way they were told was in Lucas's head in the early 1970s...3PO built by Darth Vader and all.

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Lucas - the man who pouted when Disney didn't use his 7-9 scripts - said he never wanted 7, 8, and 9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB2dmmbKcsw

Lucas, who again wrote scripts for 7-9, approved countless books, games, and comics, and sold the franchise to Disney saying he never wanted it to go on forever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNh7Tyw-O60

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I think he didn't survive, I think he was vaporized. I think his followers did what "Doctor Who" did with The Master during the 10th Doctor years, they found a trace of genetic material and grew a new Emperor!

Of course, it never works out the way they hope, if you're working from a pathetic little smear of DNA. The new Master was batshit crazy, and the new Palpatine fell to bits after a while.

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Rise of Skywalker explains is pretty clearly. Not sure why more people didn't pick up on it. I was having this conversation on another board not too long ago: https://filmboards.com/board/t/HoW-dId-PAlPatiNE-CoME-bacK%3F!-3365584/

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Of course, a guy who bought an entire clone army with other people's money could easily be smart enough to order a couple of spare bodies from the Kaminoans, and use the Force to transfer his consciousness into them if his body was vaporized or something.

It looks like they shafted him though, gave him a crap new body that fell to bits, maybe he should have put in the order while he was still on good terms with them.

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LOL! I don't know if you are being serious or not, but I think his body is falling apart because he is evil. Unnatural. What he is doing is an abomination. It's too much for a cloned body to handle, which is why he wanted to possess Rey. Not sure that would work either, but that was his thinking. His body was falling apart. It couldn't handle the unnatural things he was putting it through.

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Oh bosh, evil doesn't make bodies fall apart! Dictators and tyrants live to ripe old ages if they aren't deposed, in better health than the rest of us because they don't suffer the stresses that come with having a conscience.

And no, I'm not taking this question 100% seriously, say 75%. And if Palpatine's cloned body was falling apart, it's because either something had gone wrong while his followers were dragging the spare clones around while fleeing from the Republic, or because he needed a new clone after he'd destroyed the Clonemasters of Kamino's base, and he couldn't find anyone who could make a clone body worth having.

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"Oh bosh, evil doesn't make bodies fall apart!"

Bad cloning totally does though.

What a clown ass response.

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Just bad cloning.

I can assume anything i like about the cloning of sentient being, since it doesn't exist in real life!

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You're a fucking child.

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No, I'm an extremely immature older person.

Why else would I be discussing Star Wars.

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This. This is an odd thread.

I can understand if someone wanted to speculate about in-universe reasons for fun. But that's fanfiction. Palpatine didn't survive because he got thrown in a deep dark pit and died from fall damage.

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If the guy simply asked how he came back in The Rise of Skywalker and wanted to talk about that, that's perfectly fine. But to be baffled as to why a character didn't do something in a movie 40 years ago when the sequel was written 5, is just a bogus question.

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Only George Lucas's Star Wars movies are canon, NOTHING ELSE. Yep, not even the Disney crap counts, certainly not that mass of EU rubbish.

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Hey, George loved Dark Empire so much (the comics) that he bought everyone a copy for a Christmas party back in the 90s (so I have read anyways), and that featured the resurrected Emperor Palpatine. I still think it was quite nice of him to support the EU as much as he did, up until the prequels anyways when he made the Geonosians bug creatures the inventors of the Death Star, not Bevel Lemelisk.

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I was so excited when I bought that comic in hardcover format about 5 or so years ago. I was shocked how bad it is. Palpatine dies and comes back like 3 times. It's pathetic and laughable.

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Could be wrong about this but I think the Death Star was more of a creation by the Separatists as a whole. More likely an idea cooked up by the trade federation and was being designed into practicality by a collation of others.

The separatists were gathering on Geo and discussing their alliance, war plans, and separation from the Republic. I'd say what the Geo's had in the hologram was the unfinished concept designs brought to the meeting as a strategic proposal. Hence why they handed it over to Dooku during the retreat instead of keeping it themselves. I doubt the tech challenged Geo's designed the DS themselves.

We don't see it again until the empire is formed and it's under construction. I'd say the leaders of the Separatist (which was just a big game designed by Palp) were the only ones that knew about it. Once they were killed by Anakin, Palps further developed the designs and started construction.

This is based just on what we see in the movies not supportive outside canon.

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Watch the originals and tell me the Death Star wasn't the Empire's thing.

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Umm okay. The prequels are just as much cannon as the originals and they clearly show the Death Star in early concept before the clone wars.

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Watch the originals and tell me the Death Star wasn't the Empire's thing.

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How about "Clone Wars"? That was made by Lucasfilm Ltd., and was an expansion of the world of Lucas's prequels from beginning to end.

I can see why some of the fanboys might not want to accept its Disney spinoffs as canon, but IMHO "Clone Wars" not only has an infinitely better claim to be considered official Canon than the fan-fiction books, it's just plain Canon.

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You "dISnEY!" people are fucking weird. Why are you loyal to him? The prequels are AWFUL movies. He bastardized the originals with constant tinkering - and even worse a refusal to let the untouched movies be released. Fuck that guy.

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I would say the same about you, you freak of nature growing out of a man's chest.

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Three possibilities:

1) The shock of Vader's betrayal combined with the adrenaline surge of falling don't give him a lot of time to react, even if he is a Sith Lord. We know he didn't "foresee" this because his foresight doesn't predict Vader's betrayal at all, apparently, so his gifts of prophecy are more visions and less "Spidey-sense". This site says he'd have 9 seconds to react, if the shaft was the height of the Empire State Building: https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/10/dropping-a-penny-from-the-top-of-the-empire-state-building-isnt-dangerous/

It's possible that it's longer than that, but we see him vaporize fast enough that I think he impacted/was blown up before then.

2) Vader used his own powers to speed the Emperor's descent, or at least cancel out his former master's abilities to slow himself down.

3) The Emperor's lightning actually hits a bunch of power coils or some other technobabble machines and that's what fries him, not the fall itself.

I favour No.1 and No.3 myself. Maybe even a combination...

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i like 3. killed by his own weapon. maybe his lighting hits power couplings. stay away from power couplings!

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i just pictured luke and vader igniting light sabers and having a final duel with palapatine. never thought of that before.

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Aye. It was as simple as Palpatine realizing Vader tossed him over the edge, quickly going into Darth Sidious acrobatic mode (like he does in Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith), grabbing onto a catwalk or using the force to lower himself slowly, making his way back up the tower, and taking out Luke & Vader in Sidious fashion.

That's the problem with the prequels and cartoons, they give us a Sidious that is not completely there in 1983's Return of the Jedi, and sure we can always say he got older, lost his touch, or maybe didn't practice the dark side methods as often as he did decades earlier, but I doubt it.

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could it be summed up to being his overconfidence that luke said was his weakness. like you say maybe he didn't practice the dark side as much anymore because he felt he didn't need it.

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