The Dark Knight is a higher rating? - Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) Discussion

[–] DocCasualty 14 years ago

It shouldn't. IMDb ratings are nothing more than popularity contests of fan boi favs.

"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye." 2001: A Space Odyssey

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[–] Fisherman82 9 years ago

You explained best how imdb ratings work. Also, this movie has 5588 votes of 1, how is that even possible? I mean, I understand a 3, 4, 5 but no way in hell 1. Even if you don't like the movie you can't vote this 1.

Raylan Givens: I'm going to need an ambulance, and a coroner.

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[–] kidsmakemovies2 9 years ago

The majority of IMdB users don't understand that there are more than two ratings. If they like a movie: OH BOY 10/10. If they don't like it: OH BOO 1/10, NO redeeming qualities here at all.

See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.

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[–] DFWTooThrowed 14 years ago

Because it's an amazing movie. Honestly, I like it better. Maybe it's because I'm younger. I have nothing against this movie, however. This is the first "older" film that I have watched solely because everyone tells me it's one of the best movies of all time, and actually liked it.

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[–] Samme7 14 years ago

Im 16 and this is my second favourite film. Pulp Fiction is first, and The Dark Knight Is worth about an 8/10 I suppose.

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[–] diablozoll 13 years ago

You know that this little fact doesn't make you more intelligent than that who considers The Dark Knight as the better?

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[–] marousha_n 12 years ago

Actually it does, The Dark Knight is a big pile of BS. On the other hand, DR Strangelove and The Great Dictator are the two best political satires ever made. It takes some brain to understand them though. As for The Dark Knight an IQ of 50 is more than enough.

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[–] diablozoll 12 years ago

I'm not taking sides, I just think a movie doesn't need to have deep ideas which are harder to understand, in order to be good. You can't deny The dark knight is a very well-made film. I don't understand your rating system. It means that a kids movie with a simple plot can't be good? I bet you think all the Disney films are crap. You know, something is wrong when you rely solely on movies to educate you, to make you use your brain.

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[–] alex-tillberg 12 years ago

That is the most retarded thing i have ever heard. You really mean that The Dark Knight is just a pop-flick and requires no thinking or intelligence at all?

Holy crap. Why can't people just enjoy the movies instead of comparing them? They are both great films.

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[–] marousha_n 12 years ago

Yes, I mean exactly that. Only someone of lower intelligence would see a masterpiece in that crap. The IMDB ratings are just the result of hordes of fanboys giving 10/10 to all junk that has enough explosions. That is the truth.

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[–] fillshertease 12 years ago

Sorry to burst your bubble but people with high intelligence don't watch movies for intellectual stimulation. Film is an art and as such it is primarily an emotional medium. Contrary to what you have said, no movie ever made requires high intelligence to understand and enjoy. Neither of your two examples - 'Dr. Strangelove' or 'The Great Dictator' - require any great level of intellectual effort. Average to medium intelligence is all that is required for any movie and that's why highly intelligent people do other things for intellectual stimulation.

Of course highly intelligent people watch movies but for the most part they do so for other reasons. If anything it's to take a break from intellectual activity - not to stimulate it - and generally speaking, like most people, it's for the sake of emotional enjoyment and to escape the pressures of day to day life. It's only the less intelligent who hold the ridiculous notion that the enjoyment or understanding of certain movies is an indication of high intelligence.

It simply isn't!

So I apologise for bursting another bubble but your comments and opinions about 'The Dark Knight' specifically, and movies in general, give the distinct impression that you're pretty stupid. I'm sorry to be so blunt but they certainly don't make you appear to have even average intelligence. Your understanding of what makes a movie a masterpiece is severely restricted and emotionally immature. Your explanation that the high rating of 'The Dark Knight' is based purely on the number of explosions indicates an inability to apply even basic logic, let alone to construct or understand a reasoned argument.

In short, your comments couldn't be further from the truth...

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[–] marousha_n 12 years ago

An action flick that a 5 years old would understand, no matter how great the filming technique is or how amazing it looks, should never be compared to an amazing satire that stood out the test of years. If your tiny baby-faced brain cannot comprehend it, I feel sorry for you.

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[–] Tales-from-the-Goondocks 11 years ago

Why do you feel sorry for him? He's clearly more knowledgeable than you about art and cinema. These are pretty much facts:

"It's only the less intelligent who hold the ridiculous notion that the enjoyment or understanding of certain movies is an indication of high intelligence."

"[...] your comments and opinions about 'The Dark Knight' specifically, and movies in general, give the distinct impression that you're pretty stupid."

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[–] Tales-from-the-Goondocks 11 years ago

Another incredibly stupid post of yours.

First of all, I think it's incredibly funny how you think it is such an intellectual challenge to "get" Dr. Strangelove or The Great Dictator; it's not. Both films are pretty straightforward and you are not a smart person just because you understood them, in fact you seem to be a very slow young man.

Second, the criteria you are using is extremely funny too. By this sentence of yours "an action flick that a 5 years old would understand [...] should never be compared to an amazing satire that stood out the test of years" it is understood that the criteria you are using to judge a film quality is how difficult it is to understand it. Apparently, according to you, if a film has a simple plot, then it is bad, as great filmmaking as it may be, but if a film has a plot that's difficult to understand, then it is automatically good. I'm sorry, but that's a very VERY stupid criteria that only an ignorant dumbass would have the guts to post here. It doesn't make any kind of sense. It sounds even more ridiculous when we consider the kind of films you seem to think are difficult to understand (i.e. Dr. Strangelove and The Great Dictator).

I wonder how is it that people like you just don't forget how to breathe.

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[–] marousha_n 11 years ago

Another stuck up moron that thinks I would be offended that he calls me stupid. If that makes you feel better go ahead. But we all know who the stupid one is, don't we?

First of all, I think it's incredibly funny how you think it is such an intellectual challenge to "get" Dr. Strangelove or The Great Dictator; it's not. Both films are pretty straightforward and you are not a smart person just because you understood them, in fact you seem to be a very slow young man.

By this sentence of yours "an action flick that a 5 years old would understand [...] should never be compared to an amazing satire that stood out the test of years" it is understood that the criteria you are using to judge a film quality is how difficult it is to understand it. Apparently, according to you, if a film has a simple plot, then it is bad, as great filmmaking as it may be, but if a film has a plot that's difficult to understand, then it is automatically good. I'm sorry, but that's a very VERY stupid criteria that only an ignorant dumbass would have the guts to post here. It doesn't make any kind of sense. It sounds even more ridiculous when we consider the kind of films you seem to think are difficult to understand (i.e. Dr. Strangelove and The Great Dictator).

First of all, I am a woman, not that it makes any difference, but you seem to know them all.
Second, The Dark Knight is not just simple action, is a dumb movie even by it's own standards. Now I love comics and movies about superheroes, but that movie is an offense to all Batman comics ever written. If you fail to see why I feel sorry for you.
I never said Dr Strangelove and The Great Dictator were rocket science, others cannot understand simple satire. That makes them stupid, not me.
So we got to the conclusion that someone must be really stupid not to understand something so direct, isn't it? You see what I did here, you bozo? Just what you did above. Your first attempt to make me look stupid backfired at you.
You sir, are a gem of nature: so much stupidity packed on one is rare. I also love how you disprove your own points. I am waiting for more. Bring it on, I'm waiting

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[–] Mellow-Fellow 10 years ago

I know I'm just pissing in the wind here but it's not everybody else, it's you, sorry. I don't think people particularly care that you dislike the Dark Knight, it's the way you are presenting your argument that makes you look foolish. Some people understand satirical films, and still don't like them. I keep thinking, your poor family, I bet you are a real delight to have around.

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[–] mrwnmero 10 years ago

wow you must feel sorry for a lot of people...
first of all the dark knight is not about batman vs Joker, it is about a much deeper message that I don't think I should explain because you will not understand it anyway. secondly Dr. Strangelove is AMAZING !! its story is really simple and straightforward so you shouldn't need 5000 IQ to understand it.
by your standards, The Matrix should be the best movie ever, right?
you just don't understand how movies work, the directing, the acting, the script, the sound effects and music, the decoration and costumes are all factors that build a movie. not just how hard the story is to "get".

but it isn't actually about the story or whatever method you use to compare movies, you just seem like you have a personal vendetta against the dark knight, because why else would you pick that one from the other 44 movies on top of Dr. Strangelove?

and let me tell you something, if you like pop music that doesn't make the rest genres are inferior or have lower quality or designed especially for slow brained kids.
I think you get my message, or you don't. it doesn't matter.

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[–] Behelit 11 years ago

Well I disagree with you, but I don't agree with the other person either. I partly agree with him that a film solely made for entertainment, as great as it may be, should never be put on par with a brilliantly thought-out film with a true artistic identity, that makes you question society, human nature or even your own existence. Very few films have such capacity, and Dr. Strangelove certainly does have it.

I also think you are being rather narrow-minded when you say "If anything it's to take a break from intellectual activity". It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you are labelling cinema as entertainment and emotions, and that you don't want a film to challenge you intellectually...

I ask you what is an intellectual activity? Is reading a book an intellectual activity? There are very fun novels that provide you with much entertainment and give your emotions a great ride, in fact that's the majority of books. But there are also books like 1984 that entertain and give much more, just like Dr. Strangelove (I won't quote other films since we're on this one's board, but my ratings are public if you're wondering). And I'm not even talking about philosophy or poetry which could be comparable to other forms of cinema...

Why shouldn't a film also be a medium to make you think and question the world? Why should it be an activity that you do with your brain on shut-down? And why should there be only one single way of being entertained? I personally don't find Hollywood blockbusters that entertaining. I know from start to finish most of what's going to happen, I know how it's going to be filmed, I know which CGI effects I'm going to see, what's the point I wonder... but I understand why people like them, it comforts them and I won't judge, I do it myself with detective films. Although there's still a mystery and something to guess, and the mood is usually quite inspiring... but I don't confuse these films with masterpieces, even though there are some exceptions.

And that brings me to The Dark Knight! I thought it was more than an entertainment (which I certainly didn't think about the next one). It was not at all a silly moralistic superhero film, the plot was intelligent and it raised some questions, it surprised me! I think it's no masterpiece like Dr. Strangelove but it's a very good film. I think marousha is exceedingly unfair to call it dumb, could it be possible that in his "higher intelligence" he didn't understand it?

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[–] dario-liendo 11 years ago

Well, I kept scrolling to come and say this.

On one hand, I agree you don't have to be a genius to understand any movie. But it's not true every movie made can only "resting" for high intellect people.
On the other hand I think movies doesn't have to be complex to be artistically great. Some simple movies, well shot and thought can be brilliant, some other films not as simple can be brilliant too. It depends on the artistic brilliance of the makers.
I loved The Dark Knight, I think the plot is good, and the Joker's character is so great.

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[–] marousha_n 11 years ago

I do not like TDK because I love Batman and Nolan tends to make everything too realistic. Gotham looks like any US metropolis, that kills it from the start for me. Also Batman rarely uses his gadgets, the villains are just psychos and that is another big no. The great thing about Batman is that the superhero is the dark one and the villains are all psychos, but colorful, fun ones. I do not say TDK is not good cinematography, I say it kills the whole Batman idea. If you ask me, good Batman movies are Tim Burton's, they got the proper setting and atmosphere. Anyway, it's good to actually have a talk with someone. Everyone tends to say they hate something and never discuss.

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[–] Tales-from-the-Goondocks 11 years ago

Thank you for this post. You are 100% right. In my experience, it's mostly stupid people who live in the delusion that appreciating certain films makes them smarter than others. And everything you said about the medium, emotions and intelligence is 100% true too. I really am glad to learn there are still people with common sense here.

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[–] kingjulian164 11 years ago

Woooowwwww.

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[–] BlakeKeys 11 years ago

The hilarious thing about that is that Dr. Strangelove has 20+ explosions in it while The Dark Knight has at most 5. Love both of these films. They should not be compared they are very different.:) peace be with y'all.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] danickster 11 years ago

alex-tillberg: exactly and besides, Heath Ledger's performance is one of the best ever in TDK.

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[–] Martin_Skovgaard 11 years ago

"You really mean that The Dark Knight is just a pop-flick and requires no thinking or intelligence at all? "

Ehm...YES!

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[–] TheArtOfBeingRandom34523 9 years ago

The Dark Knight is a pretentious pop flick that wants to be a great movie and fails.
If it had to be a summer blockbuster, hell make it a summer blockbuster, don't go artsy and try to give it a deep meaning.
Batman Begins was great because it was serious, but didn't take himself too seriously, it was an above average blockbuster.

This signature is hilarious and original.
NAAAT!

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[–] shadypotential 12 years ago

lmaoo

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[–] JamesRavenC 12 years ago

Insulting a guy's work and the people that like it gets you nowhere, you lifeless fvck.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] marousha_n 11 years ago

Inception is stolen, and TDK killed all the fantasy in Batman. That's all.

All time favorites
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[–] TheArtOfBeingRandom34523 9 years ago

Stolen from Satoshi Kon's Paprika you mean? Well I haven't seen both but I heard of this thing.

This signature is hilarious and original.
NAAAT!

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[–] delonge2 11 years ago

Alright, so I feel like I just had to do this. I can explain to you why TDK is a better film for me personally than Dr. Strangelove.

I grew up watching the Batman series and also all of the Batman movies, so when the Batman movies came back to life again in recent years, I was thrilled. I love Tim Burton, and he did a good job with the Batman movies, but I always felt like something was missing, and in my opinion, Christopher Nolan did what Tim Burton couldn't. He took it to a darker place. And it's not just about TDK on it's own, it's about the trilogy and the ongoing themes. You shouldn't rate everything you know about Batman based on TDK. It is the best of the bunch, but it wouldn't be so good if it wasn't for the others as well.

I just finished watching Dr. Strangelove, and that's basically how I ended up here in the first place. It is a good movie, no doubt, but I just felt it to be a bit weird at times. I can see everything about the cultural significance with the Cold War looming and the satire, but I don't really think you can say that this is a more intelligent movie than TDK. I'm from Norway and I grew up in the '80s, but I still understood everything about this movie and how ridiculous the entire thing is while at the same time, it is very much real and a bit terrifying.

I could also add that I've studied drama for a few years, and it's easy to see that these are both good movies, but you sort of have to connect with them in some way. The best example I can come up with is Monty Python. People either love it or they hate it. It's not about being smart or being stupid and not understanding it, it's about a lot more than that. In fact, it's so complex to even beging discussing, but it mostly has to do with culture.

You might say that Heath Ledger's Joker will be soon forgotten, but I seriously doubt that. It's one of the best displays of acting I have ever seen, and I'm fairly certain that it still will be considered that in 30-40 years. Times change, but great will always be great.

And if you think TDK is about the explosions, then the Joker wins, because that's exactly what it's NOT about. It's about everything BUT the explosions. It's about chaos. And I also like what someone said that Dr. Strangelove has about five times more explosions than TDK. Because Dr. Strangelove isn't about the explosions either. And once again, if you thought that TDK was about the explosions, then you didn't get it and your point becomes sort of invalid.

They are both great movies, but just because one of them has something the other doesn't, doesn't make it a better movie or a worse movie. It's about taste, and if you didn't like TDK, then fine, but don't go blaming it on the special effects and the level of intelligence, or the lack thereof.

And as a final point, I would just like to add that I have an IQ of 155, and I like both films, so where does that leave us? Does that mean I liked TDK 3.1 times better than the average german shepherd? No, because it doesn't work that way.

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[–] crazyspursfan 9 years ago

Actually it does, The Dark Knight is a big pile of BS. On the other hand, DR Strangelove and The Great Dictator are the two best political satires ever made. It takes some brain to understand them though. As for The Dark Knight an IQ of 50 is more than enough.

I'm sorry, but this is why I can't stand so many "film buffs" who look down their noses at people for having opinions that differ from their own. Dr. Strangelove is my favourite film of all time, so naturally I think it's a better film than The Dark Knight, but to call people who disagree with you dumb or to at the very least say it's a movie aimed at people who are mentally retarded is damn insulting to those people who love it. The Dark Knight is a great film as is Dr. Strangelove, if somebody enjoys one more than the other, it's not your place to judge their intelligence for that opinion.

You are now aware that Sam Rockwell will never be given the credit that he deserves.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] roiben2 10 years ago

Yeah, Dark knight is worth about 8/10 as this movie is.

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[–] Samme7 14 years ago

Maybe for a fanboy like yourself.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] captchas-1 14 years ago

Enough of this. Has anyone noticed the Strangelove release date? That's correct .. this film is almost 60 years old. Out of the ordinary movies survive the ravages of time.

So, for you 'Dark Knight' fans who might live another 60 years, check then for what top 250 lists the 'Dark Night' makes. History, not fanbois, will rate your film.

--- CHAS

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[–] BJ-Bobinatz 14 years ago

Enough of this. Has anyone noticed the Strangelove release date? That's correct .. this film is almost 60 years old

I agree with this. I swear, some of you act like fangirls and not just fanboys. You see, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK is number 22 at the moment; you can bet that back in 1981 it would have been number 5, maybe even number 1. And would you still cry over that?

THE DARK KNIGHT is considered by many as a greatest comic book movie of all time and it's competely legitimate that it has such a high rating. And I bet that most of you would whine if any post-2000 movie was in a top 10.

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[–] james_logan_howlett 12 years ago

Lol, the dark knight isn't even the best Nolan batman film...Batman Begins is. TDK and TDKR are both too long and take too much focus away from...BATMAN. They should have changed the name of TDK to Joker Begins and TDKR to Nightwing Rises or some such crap and before you jump up and yell back actually take some time, look at the AFI's top 100 films, read why they are the top 100 films and then try to formulate a retort lacking ignorance.

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[–] hadialam 11 years ago

The Dark Knight isn't even the best Nolan film. Non of his Batman films are his best. By far his best is Memento. But all film is subjective. So all the people arguing about rankings so fanatically is stupid. I don't agree that Shawshank should number 1 but I don't go bashing every other project Darabont has worked on. Just calm down people. There are better things in life

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[–] christomacin 13 years ago

and that's even assuming IMDB still exists in 50 or 60 years, which is by no means certain. Even the New York Times may not exist in 50 or 60 years. It's unlikely anyone would care what the ratings of a defunct website were.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] boone727 14 years ago

I would consider both The Dark Knight and Dr. Strangelove to be great movies, but it is hard to compare the two since they are very different movies from different eras. As others mentioned, we will see in 20-30 years where The Dark Knight is ranked.

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[–] matheusmagalhaes10 13 years ago

How sad is this ?
Dr. Strangelove isn't even in the top 10 of the IMDB best movies.

Your mother cook socks in hell!

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[–] DD-931 13 years ago

It's getting to the point with the IMDB Top 250 that I'm almost shocked that some of the great classic films actually still manage to stay on the list.

Periodically I've noticed that when some of the weaker recent movies on the list finally start their inevitable slide downward, fans of that movie organize to push their favorite back up on the list. How do I know? They announce their intentions on the message boards of their movie. PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN is just one example.

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[–] matheusmagalhaes10 13 years ago

If i remember well, when Inception was released, it went straight to the top of the list, as the "best film of all time".

Your mother cook socks in hell!

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[–] minhal92 13 years ago

That's because the Dark Knight was a pretty amazing film, no doubt that Dr Strangelove is pretty amazing but its also around 60 years old.. we'll see how Dark Knight fairs over time, young people can appreciate movies as well but people tend to overrate movies right after they watch them (kinda including me as well, though I always go back and fix it if I did)

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[–] businesstime12 13 years ago

Don't mean to nitpick but it's 50 not 60 years old. Simple math really.

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[–] Tales-from-the-Goondocks 13 years ago

It pisses you off that the majority of imdb users don't share your taste?

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[–] Mr_Deltoid 13 years ago

*beep* imdb sometimes pisses me off. This is the dumbest thing ever.

You're pissed off that a bunch of children rated The Dark Knight higher than a film they don't even know exists? Dude, how can you possibly take the IMDB rating seriously? Anyone with an internet connection can vote on it.

I agree with you that Dr. Strangelove is a superior example in good filmmaking, but stats are stats: The Dark Knight is wildly popular, and even among the "legitimate" film industry critics, and institutions, it's considered a very good film. You have to give it credit for that.

But regarding The Dark Knight I didn't particularly like it. It was boring and cliched as hell. The film editing was so choppy and the action scenes were a poorly choreographed disjointed mess (the one vehicle chase scene in the middle was pretty cool, though). Christian Bale's Clint Eastwood impersonation was so over-the-top I laughed out loud every time he spoke. And the Heath Ledger joker performance, while great, was over-hyped and was nothing legendary in my opinion. Fanboys made up their minds and decided it was the best performance ever before having even seen the movie. He walked funny, talked funny, and that was about it. However he won the Oscar for best supporting role as well as the Golden Globe for the same. But it's nowhere near the caliber of Pacino in Godfather II, Brando in Apocalypse Now, or Peter Sellers in any of his roles in Dr. Strangelove. William Hurt's 10 minutes of screen time in A History of Violence were a much better display of acting, too. There are a ton of others. I'm willing to bet Ledger wouldn't have won if he didn't tragically pass away before the awards were actually announced.

Dr. Strangelove destroys The Dark Knight in practically every major category, losing to it only in the technical fields because TDK has a 50 year advantage over it and that's it. I predict the test of time will not be kind to TDK, as the majority of its fanboys will most likely get so much exposure to better films they'll realize that it's not so special.

Bottom line: to be pissed off at the IMDB list of top movies is really silly.

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[–] Tales-from-the-Goondocks 13 years ago

Anyone with an internet connection can vote on it.

So, what you are saying is that only a few people of your choosing should be allowed to vote?

I predict the test of time will not be kind to TDK, as the majority of its fanboys will most likely get so much exposure to better films they'll realize that it's not so special.

Well, your theory doesn't really hold up at all. I've seen almost 1,500 films according to my imdb ratings history, including Dr. Strangelove, and I still think The Dark Knight is a very VERY special film. As you said, The Dark Knight got a good reception from critics too, and I doubt most of them are youngsters who need to watch more movies. So, how does that fact reconcile with your theory? It all comes down to this: you simply don't think it is anything special, other people do. Simple as that. It's all about taste really.

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[–] deathofseasonsxg 13 years ago

I would honestly consider anyone who has seen both movies and still thought the TDK to be better to be of lower intelligence.

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[–] lanquide 13 years ago

^^^ this, i agree.

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[–] stonewaspknight 13 years ago

Sorry

I must agree with deathofseasonsxg

TDK is OK, Dr. Strangelove is a masterpiece.

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[–] nwg-1 13 years ago

quite possibly the stupidest reasoning I have ever read on these boards

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[–] Ziad-Khan 12 years ago

@ deathofseasonsxg

Is that the limit of your intelligence? If you are a genuine movie fan and think Dr. Strangelove is a 10/10, then you also rate TDK at least in the range of 7.5-9. Hating a film just because others love it too much is not a reason to degrade a film. It has been 4 yeas since TDK and its still in top 10. Don't you think if it was so high just because of the fan-boys, then TDK-Rises should also be close to top 10? Because TDK-R is fresh in the minds of the so called 'fan-boys' and they must have still remember the entertainment they had recently in theaters.

Maybe some times you have to accept that you don't like the film, but many others do. I have seen most of the IMDB top-250 film, I think The Godfather and Pulp Fiction are very overrated and boring. But I really like Schindler's List, Good, Bd, Ugly and Shawshank Redemption. But that doesn't change the fact that the two movies which I found extremely overrated are loved by many others, so in general they are considered great films.

So without being disrespectful, I disagree with you theory of lower intelligence one.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] LiviuX 11 years ago

i'm no way tdk fanboy but this strangelove movie was BS. and you're argument is probably one of the worst i had ever read in this message boards.

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[–] tom_mangan21 13 years ago

no life.

Cleveland Browns, 1964 Nfl Champions

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[–] qwertyuioptom0902000 11 years ago

best reply ever

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[–] marousha_n 11 years ago

I completely agree with you. I wish more would understand this.

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[–] Mellow-Fellow 10 years ago

I hate when people say its just a bunch of children rating movies when they don't agree with the movie rating. I have always found IMDB to be fairly close to what I would rate the movies give or take a few stars for genre preference.

And you have to confirm your account with a credit card or phone number so its not dramatically out of line where people can set up bots to vote up a particular film, it would take a bit of work to just push 10 extra illegitimate votes through I think?

New releases always get inflated ratings, it seems to take about a year after release for films to get to the point of where they will stay.

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