MovieChat Forums > Triumph des Willens (1935) Discussion > Don't think of the Nazis as 'evil'

Don't think of the Nazis as 'evil'

posted 18 years ago by cubanato00
48 replies | jump to latest

Before I get death threats let me clarify my statement. When we think of Nazis today we think of them as we do the neo-Nazis and other openly racist groups: bunch of hateful, ignorant, white trash hicks. The fact is that the Nazis were hateful, but they were far from ignorant. Many of them were highly cultured people: Doctors, Lawyers, Businessmen, etc. I'm sure if you were to meet one at a dinner party they'd be very charming. There is no way the German people, or any people for that matter would follow people that had "evil" personalities. While I was watching this film the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. Why? Because it's mesmerizing, and I'm saying this as a black man from Arkansas. I can see why so many followed these people. They didn't do it because of the hatred of the Jews, but instead because they had an excessive pride of their own culture and country. My point is we need to stop thinking of evil in terms of something we can spot a mile a way. True evil tricks you. True evil comes with a charisimatic smile.

[–] frodo_unplugged 17 years ago

O villain, villain, smiling damned villain!
My table. Meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain.

:-)

[–] aschmuter 17 years ago

If the Nazis had won the war then I would not be alive to write this. Same goes for my 10 year old sister,mother,father, and anyone else related to me. These fascists would slaughter Jews just for the fun of it. Families would see each other being shot right in front of there eyes. Could you even imagine you mother or father or child being shot or tortured right in front of you. Blood and agony spread throughout Europe. Schools were told to teach that Jews were the ultimate source of evil. They would have racial classes were they would learn if they ever came across with a Jew, to kill them without hesitation no matter who they were. Tell me, if this doesn't prove to be evil then what does.

For more of an insite on this watch Europa Europe, or Shindlers List.

By the way, I'm 14 and don't deserve to die.

[–] frodo_unplugged 17 years ago

what are you talking about? everyone who's 14 deserves to die. don't they teach this at school anymore?

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] TIMMAHHH 17 years ago

10% of the german nation where in the nazi party. Hitler and probably others had pure hate on the jews, they made the jews the scapegoat of the country so they could have something to blame on. But yeah, you had to be smart in order to kill 6mill people

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Taybeh 17 years ago

Forget the semantics for a while, and skip the philosophical debate if it's the man och the actions of a man that are evil. Nazism is evil, proven by their actions. The T4-aktion, the aryan "master race" policy, the racist policy, the systematic extermination of somewhere between 10-17 million people... after reading Mein Kampf and numerous book about Nazi Germany I can only say this. If nazism isn't evil - nothing is.

That said, let's talk about the people. I don't consider the German people in Nazi Germany evil. If I would have been a German living in the post-Versailles treaty period of the Weimar republic, living through the hyper inflation and the great depression the nazis would probably sound like life savers. I would probably have agreed with them and greeted Hitler with "Sieg heil" like thousands of others.

Even if many nazis in the 1930's were educated people it doesn't make them less racist than the neo-nazis today. The nazis in the 1930's were as racist as anyone can get, and if you, as a black man, would have gotten into their hands in those days you would have been labled a "untermensch" - sub-human, not worthy of life and sent off to extermination or slave work. I'm Swedish, so I would have been among the "lucky ones", who they considered "übermensch" - master-human. If I would have been labled high enough on their racial purity scale I could even have joined the SS, and gotten myself an SS-approved wife and helped the nazis to breed the new aryan masters. The former chicken farmer Heinrich Himmler used breeding experience from chickens into SS... can we also conclude that nazism isn't just evil? It's also very, very sick.

I agree thet we can't spot evil miles away. If the nazis would have been totallt open and honest they would have ended up were they belonged from the beginning, in a prison for mentally sick people.

[–] Captain_Birdseye 17 years ago

The problem i have with that word it is, in a sense, a way of excusing them. "Evil" implies they were born this way, that they are just naturally evil people. They were not. They were horrific and did evil things, but they weren't evil int eh sense of The Emperor in Star Wars. Evil implies a mental deficiency.

The Simpsons:
1989-2000
R.I.P

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] TomMerry 17 years ago

Hitler and the nazis were evil. End of story.

[–] Augusto_casanova-1 17 years ago

The real question here is what does "evil" means to you. For example, evil for me mean an unhuman state that can only be applied to demonic figures such as Satan: that is, to do and think horrible acts in pure consciousness (ehh, forgive my spelling, English ain't my language) and just for the sake of it, not even for pleasure.

That being said, my personal believe is that the whole Nazi movement is the scariest thing in the world because is was very human. Germans opened their arms to it and like what it did to their country (at least what they knew about it, wonder what they would have though had they know about the concentration camps and all those nasty things).

It is scary cause that could happen in your country. Hell, its happening in my country as we speak. I live in Venezuela and we have this president called Chavez who talks about americans and not-poor-people the way Hitler talked about non-aryan races and uses his influence to concentrate more power to himself.

Conclusion: depends first of what you think "evil" is. Second, most nazis were just like you and me, which is really scary, cause it means that regular people can admit horrible acts id they are fooled properly like such jerks (such smart jerks) as Josef Goebbels. (He designed the whole nazi propaganda, btw)

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] PigDestroyer1 17 years ago

The Nazi's were normal people just like you or me who had a fanatical ideology. I mean you can apply it to the tribes in Africa. It's just pure hatred. The Holocaust is what you get when you have a leader with absolute power who truly despises a race of people enough to want to exterminate them all. \

The same thing would happen if the Grand Wizard of the KKK became President of the USA. Their would be another Genocide, and he was be considered evil as well. It just takes the right time and tactic.

[–] tcoon4 17 years ago

I agree that the Nazi Party and the leaders of this party were evil.

However to cast a pall on Nazi Germany without understanding the events that happened prior to it coming to power is just foolish. If you have any desire to learn about history of that era and why Hitler came to power you should read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by journalist William L Schirer.

An incredible book showing how and why Hitler and the Nazi's came to power.

Evil can only exist if you allow it to thrive and that is exactly what happened. The Allies were punitive in the treaty of Versaille and then did nothing to stop Hitler before Poland.

Again...know your history and then you might understand how the Germans allowed men like Hitler and Goering to thrive.

[–] NickTenenbaum 17 years ago

Hitler was a puppet.
His backroom staff such as Goebbels, Himmler, Goerring ruled him and controlled every move he did.
He was given the tile of "Fuhrer" and placed in charge of the Nazis due to his charasmatic personality and his ability to deliver enaging and brilliant speeches.
Was Hitler evil? I believe he was a very twisted and evil man to do all the things he did. Though, he and his staff were incredibly intelligent and their gradual use of propaganda eliminated most opposition and helped to consolidate their control over the German people. It's incredible how they achieved control, they sought to restore pride in a weakened and humiliated giant, the people were so desperate they turned to the Nazi party and gradually embraced their ideologies. Though, I dislike it when people think the Nazi state was based on terror and repression., it's much more complex than that.

[–] tcoon4 17 years ago

Nick can you source what you are saying? Every documentary and book I have read disputes what you are saying. Hitler was in charge of the party. In fact Goerring fell out of favor with Hitler toward the end of the war. Not sure how he would have been in control when Hitler ordered him arrested.

The Nazi state was indeed based on terror and repression. How can you dispute that. Power and Control was the foundation of the Nazi party. Voting was suspended shortly after Hitler took over Germany. That is repression.

[–] freak_o_nature89 17 years ago

He is talking about the view of Hitler as a weak dictator, and the Structualist view of the NSDAP, as opposed to the Intentionalist view. This view is best represented by Ian Kershaw, Hans Mommsen and Martin Broszat.

I disagree with your opinion that the suspension of voting is repression. The Will of the People (true democracy) can lead to Caesarism. Was the NSDAP against liberal parliamentism, certainly! Was the NSDAP against democracy, not exactly. Classical democracy strives for homogeneity, where every bit of heterogeneity is removed (see any similarities to fascism?), think of how slaves in Athens were not Citizens, thus were not part of the People. Universal suffrage comes from liberalism, not from democracy.

The system that we live under is liberal democracy, a type of democracy. Which is the combination of liberal individualism and democratic homogeneity. 'Voting' comes from liberalism, that is to say decisions are made by a number of Private persons anonymously using secret ballots. Which is in stark contrast to the Public decisions of the People, being a film website, I'll use a quote from Gracchus in the film Gladiator, "Rome is the mob". In a classical democracy the People would have no need for representatives nor a parliament to ratify legislation. The People on short notice can create laws and even change the constitution as they act as their own legislators.

Compare the reductionism of the Public realm, that is to say the transfer of the Public to the Private rampant in liberalism, specifically in liberal democracy, with that of the NSDAP. Mass rallies and marches, millions of people coming together in Public as opposed to millions of Private persons voting privately. Which TRULY conveys the Will of the People? As I stated before, Caesarism is against liberalism, but not necessarily is it antidemocratic.

As liberalism aims at the complete depoliticisation of society, Politics becomes the handmaid to Economics, where Politics and Economics are antithesis, yet Economics is subordinate to Politics. With liberalism it is the other way around as stated previously. Hence, decisions relating to the Public are viewed through an Economic perspective, which is why big business, trade unions & banks call the shots and 'politicians' heed their every call.

To get back on topic as to if the NSDAP was 'evil', one cannot use Morality to define the Political, it is a fallacy. Besides, Morals are subjective and as Protagoras said, "Man is the measure of all things: of things which are, that they are, and of things which are not, that they are not." No two people are the same, thus not everyone adheres to the same code of Morals. How anyone can use a subjective criteria to describe Politics baffles me. Politics is activity relating to Power, of the distinction between Friend and Foe. Politics is not talking in parliament, finding truth and justice by debate and denouncing Politics as 'evil' and 'irrational.'

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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