It's being described as racist and the French FA have condemned it.
Anyone got the full scoop on the lyrics? Is it definitely racist? Just wondering as the BBC story doesn't really fully describe (as usual) and what I have found is ripping into them for not being French born but doesn't really seem to be overtly racist...
BBC is too respectable. You should try more sleazy outlets...
Haha, maybe... I hate that the BBC keeps doing stuff like this though. Every time you land up having to go elsewhere to get the full picture. Sure, sometimes it's due to dubious legal nature but the rest of the time, they must know people are just going to have to look elsewhere so just save us the bother!
reply share
Don't see any racism here, just saying he's not really French...
Yeah, I was wondering about that.
It long been a bone of contention non domestic born players playing for other countries - Pretty sure Zidane was Algerian born. But is that now "racism" to point it out or even make fun of the fact. Obviously the Argies are laughing at the fact that some of France's players aren't French "born and bred" and taking this piss about it but is that in itself racism now?
Football's bad for this issue but rugby union is way worse.
e.g. Scotland have a tonne of foreign nationals playing for them but if say some French players were found singing van der Merwe's parents were South Africans, would that too be racism?
Not surprising. They're saying what's on a lot of people's minds. The French, Belgian and Dutch teams at the Euro's were more or less all African. The Swiss team didn't contain any German/French Swiss - all immigrant background including the manager. Even Spain, who never had any black players before, now have two.
I think the France team is going the way of the American NBA.
It's not racist to notice it, or talk about it. If the South African national team were all white then there would be a lot of pissing and moaning. In fact, any time you have white people anywhere be it in movies or tv or competitions or schools then there's always someone complaining about "too many" whites.
>I think the France team is going the way of American NFL & NBA. They had a great team when they won the 98 world cup and most of the players were ethnic French. I guess the new generations are not fussed about football.
Kylian Mbappe is one of the best players on earth. Most of the french football team is still pretty world class.
Football is just incredibly popular with people from Africa. It's a global sport.
The French team were absolutely awful to watch, and spoiled the tournament. They were easily undone by a Spanish side that had 9 out of 11 ethnic Spaniards, likewise in the World cup final they were beaten by an Argentine team who were all Argentines, sending a message that giving up your whole team to immigrants doesn't mean you will be the best.
>The French team were absolutely awful to watch, and spoiled the tournament.
Shit tactics doesn't mean the players aren't world class.
>They were easily undone by a Spanish side that had 9 out of 11 ethnic Spaniards, likewise in the World cup final they were beaten by an Argentine team who were all Argentines, sending a message that giving up your whole team to immigrants doesn't mean you will be the best.
And yet they still got to the world cup Final 2 years ago.
There are plenty of examples of teams of mixed ethnicity beating teams of a near-uniform or uniform ethnicity in tournaments.
They're forced to play those tactics because the French coach knew they'd be easily beaten by not playing ultra defensive. That shows a lack of belief in his players to play the same way the ethnic Spaniards or Argentines do. Their immigrant team failed.
As for your second point, it doesn't matter. Spain won the tournament with almost of all their players being ethnic Spaniards. Germany were clearly the second best team, had a mostly ethnic German team as well.
>That shows a lack of belief in his players to play the same way the ethnic Spaniards or Argentines do. Their immigrant team failed.
Almost all of the French team are world-class players who play with many Spanish and Argentinian players in their club teams. They are quite capable.
>As for your second point, it doesn't matter. Spain won the tournament with almost of all their players being ethnic Spaniards. Germany were clearly the second best team, had a mostly ethnic German team as well.
Germany had 8 non-German players (or of non German ancestry, shall we say).
I'll note you ignored Italy and Croatia doing badly despite having a mostly Italian-origin and Croatian-origin team.
In the game Germany beat Denmark, they had 4 people of non-German descent in their lineup.
And 3 non-German people came from the bench. I didn't realise but one of their number is actually from *Uzbekistan*, so that's actually 9 non-german origins in the squad.
I didn't ignore it. It was a ridiculous point. Italy and Croatia played bad? So? Turkey reached the quarter finals with a team with zero immigrants. Slovakia, a tiny nation of zero immigrants, reached the knockout stages and were one minute from beating England.
And the team who won the tournament, who were head and shoulders above everyone else - had 9 of their 11 players who were not of immigrant background.
And again, no one cares about squads. That German team, the first 11, the same players they kept for the entire tournament, were mostly white. Spin it all you want.
>I didn't ignore it. It was a ridiculous point. Italy and Croatia played bad? So? Turkey reached the quarter finals with a team with zero immigrants. Slovakia, a tiny nation of zero immigrants, reached the knockout stages and were one minute from beating England.
So there's not much of a pattern here. England reached the final. Netherlands reached the semi-finals. Both mixed teams. Franced reached the semi-finals.
>And the team who won the tournament, who were head and shoulders above everyone else - had 9 of their 11 players who were not of immigrant background.
Okay so? Who won the World Cup of 2018?
>And again, no one cares about squads. That German team, the first 11, the same players they kept for the entire tournament, were mostly white. Spin it all you want.
They had 2 more white players than Switzerland (assuming their XI vs Denmark was completely unaltered).
There is a pattern - the best teams are not full of immigrants.
2018 was three entire tournaments ago. They have failed in three consecutive tournaments since then, proving that their immigrant team are not good enough to dominate international football like what Spain did from 2008-12 with their ethnic Spaniard team.
Germany had 2 more white players - which meant most of their team is not immigrants. 7-4 is a majority.
England had 6 white players meaning their side was mostly not immigrant in the final... and they lost to a team that was vastly superior because they had 9 Spaniards and not 9 immigrants.
>There is a pattern - the best teams are not full of immigrants.
Who won the World Cup in 2018?
You are cherrypicking and ignoring teams of people mostly of the same ethnicity that failed.
Also, most of France and Englands and Netherlands and Swiss players aren't immigrants. They were born in their countries.
>2018 was three entire tournaments ago. They have failed in three consecutive tournaments since then, proving that their immigrant team are not good enough to dominate international football like what Spain did from 2008-12 with their ethnic Spaniard team.
In Euro 2020, France narrowly got defeated by Switzerland on penalties.
In the WC 2022, they went all the way to the final.
In Euro 2024, they got to the semis.
Not really showing mass failure.
>Germany had 2 more white players - which meant most of their team is not immigrants. 7-4 is a majority.
So is there a substantial difference in your mind between a team with 5 players of the countries race, and a team with 6 players of the countries race?
>England had 6 white players meaning their side was mostly not immigrant in the final... and they lost to a team that was vastly superior because they had 9 Spaniards and not 9 immigrants.
Apparently you think there is. Good lord.
You think that's it, do you, that simply having a majority of non-white players (many are not immigrants, and many are actually mixed-race - so they can trace their ancestry back) or a majority of players who can't trace their ancestry back in the country they were born into means they will always fail against teams that have a uniform race?
So.. France lost 3 times since winning the world cup. They've failed. Got it.
France, Holland etc have teams made up of players from an immigrant background. I don't care if they're born there. They are not ethnically French or Dutch. That's my point.
There is a big difference between 5-6 and 7-4. Germany won the World Cup in 2014 with a mostly ethnic German team. They have underachieved since bringing in immigrant players.
And France's 2018 team had a core of French players - Pavard, Lloris, Girourd and Greizmann (his German relative is from two centuries ago so it's safe to say he's ethnic French). These players were leaders for the team in defense, midfield and attack. They do not win the world cup without them. Since then they've failed since they've become near 100 percent immigrant.
>So.. France lost 3 times since winning the world cup. They've failed. Got it.
So if every team that fails to win the WC automatical fails and is bad?
>France, Holland etc have teams made up of players from an immigrant background. I don't care if they're born there. They are not ethnically French or Dutch. That's my point.
And why is that a problem?
And Belgians golden generation, a team historically only good, but became *really good* was heavily buffered by non-belgian players. Romelu Lukaku, Vincent Kompany, Marouane Fellaini,
>There is a big difference between 5-6 and 7-4.
You also claimed there was a big difference between 5 and 6 and 6 and 5. Why?
>And France's 2018 team had a core of French players - Pavard, Lloris, Girourd and
Pogba and Mbappe scored the decisive goals that led France to winning.
Paul Pogba in 2018 was world class. Mbappe is world class. N'Golo Kanté is world class. France should, what, not pick these players? Each international football team picks the best players avaliable to them. And France is not "near 100% immigrant".
And look at who scored England's goal in the 2024 final. Cole Palmer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cole_Palmer. Palmer is of Afro-Kittitian descent on his father's side of the family.
>Greizmann (his German relative is from two centuries ago so it's safe to say he's ethnic French). These players were leaders for the team in defense, midfield and attack. They do not win the world cup without them. Since then they've failed since they've become near 100 percent immigrant.
Also, are you saying that you also object to white players playing in the French team if they have European ancestry from other countries?
Belgium's "golden generation" were hyped because all of them played in the overrated English premiership. They were an utter failure, winning nothing after being predicted to win at least two tournaments, all compounded by their humiliation to lowly Wales in Euro 2016.
Belgium's real golden generation was their 1986 world cup semi final team who were almost all Flemish, East Belgian or Walloon.
The French team that won the 1998 world cup had a core group of French players who were all key leaders in every position - Deschamps, Blanc, Barthez and Dugarry. This was the same of the 2018 team. What happened in Qatar once these leaders were off the field? They collapsed in the penalty shoot out. Their French players are vital to the integrity of the team.
Yes, I'm talking about players who come from their ancestral homeland. The quality of these tournaments has declined because all these teams have immigrant players, while the only truly good team - Spain - didn't.
>Belgium's "golden generation" were hyped because all of them played in the overrated English premiership.
And what makes it overrated, exactly?
>They were an utter failure, winning nothing after being predicted to win at least two tournaments, all compounded by their humiliation to lowly Wales in Euro 2016.
They were predicted to do very well, not necessarily win. And their generation went on quite past 2016.
>Belgium's real golden generation was their 1986 world cup semi final team who were almost all Flemish, East Belgian or Walloon.
Okay, so it was a golden generation when they got to the 1986 world cup semi final, but not a golden generation when they got to the 2018 world cup semi final? What?
>The French team that won the 1998 world cup had a core group of French players who were all key leaders in every position - Deschamps, Blanc, Barthez and Dugarry. This was the same of the 2018 team.
I have no reason whatsoever to just accept as true your assessment of the 2018 French team.
>Yes, I'm talking about players who come from their ancestral homeland. The quality of these tournaments has declined because all these teams have immigrant players, while the only truly good team - Spain - didn't.
No reason to believe this whatsoever. Baseless garbage that ignores the failures of other homogenuous football teams like Italy (who are notoriously hot and cold in quality), Croatia this time around. Portugal too, to a degree. Mostly ethnic Portuguese.
Germany also shit the bed in Euro 2020, and didn't get out of the WC group stage in 2018 and 2022.
Also, regarding Spain 2024. Robin Le Normand was born in Paris and obtained Spanish nationality in 2023. Aymeric Louparte is French and has no Spanish connection. Lamine Yamal is of Moroccan heritage. Nico Williams is clearly not white. Little details you ignore.
It's overrated because Spanish & Italian football dominates Champions League wins. The greatest players have always played in Italy and Spain, not England. Van Bastan, Zidane, Maradona, Messi - none played in England.
No, Belgium were predicted to win and dominate international football and did nothing. They were abject failures thanks to being hyped beyond their capabilities.
Belgium 86 are widely regarded by Belgians themselves as their greatest ever side. Remember, this is the era of Maradona, a much tougher standard of football in that time.
Portugal reached a quarter final. As did Turkey. Both homogeneous teams. Slovakia would've been in the quarter finals but were cheated by officials giving England 6 mins of unwarranted injury time. The winner was a homogeneous team.
Right, so Spain had *just* the 7 Spaniards then haha. Do you know that means every position on the team from defense to attack is dominated by Spaniards? That's the entire backbone of the team. 7 players is a clear majority. The point still stands.
>It's overrated because Spanish & Italian football dominates Champions League wins.
In the last 7 years, an English club has won the Champions league 3 times. A Spanish club 3 times. A German club once.
An Italian team last won the Champions league in 2009. Do you pay any attention whatsoever to recent records?
>The greatest players have always played in Italy and Spain, not England. Van Bastan, Zidane, Maradona, Messi - none played in England.
Marco Van Bastan retired in 1995. Maradona retired in 1997. Zidane retired in 2006 (I'll also add that Zinedine Zidane is of Moroccan heritage). How hopelessly out of touch are you?
Lets go more modern, shall we? Mohamed Salah, Erling Haaland, Kevin De Bruyne, Harry Kane, Virgil Van Dijk, Sadio Mane, David Silva. Where did or do they play?
Going back a bit: Robin van Persie, Luis Suarez, Eden Hazard, N'Golo Kanté. Where did they play?
>No, Belgium were predicted to win and dominate international football and did nothing. They were abject failures thanks to being hyped beyond their capabilities.
I'll await evidence for this baseless garbage claim just like the majority of the baseless garbage claims that you make.
>Belgium 86 are widely regarded by Belgians themselves as their greatest ever side. Remember, this is the era of Maradona, a much tougher standard of football in that time.
I'll await evidence for this baseless garbage claim just like the majority of the baseless garbage claims that you make.
You are special pleading. Again. The Belgian team of 18 was just as successful as the Belgian team of 86.
>Portugal reached a quarter final. As did Turkey. Both homogeneous teams. Slovakia would've been in the quarter finals but were cheated by officials giving England 6 mins of unwarranted injury time. The winner was a homogeneous team.
Portugal limped to a quarter-final on the back of half-hearted performances. England got to the final but you don't seem to give them credit focusing entirely on their defeat to Spain. France got to the semi-final, but you again think that's crap. You are again special pleading.
>Slovakia would've been in the quarter finals but were cheated by officials giving England 6 mins of unwarranted injury time. The winner was a homogeneous team.
I'll await evidence that the officials cheated.
>Right, so Spain had *just* the 7 Spaniards then haha. Do you know that means every position on the team from defense to attack is dominated by Spaniards? That's the entire backbone of the team. 7 players is a clear majority. The point still stands.
So it would've made all the difference, would it if just 2 players in the Spanish team there were not from Spain?
I'll be honest, and I'll say it clearly - you're just a hateful racist piece of shit.
No, I meant since the inception of the Champions League in the 1950s. Real Madrid have won as many Champions Leagues as every English club combined. It is total domination.
I mentioned those players because they are regarded as the greatest players of each era. None played in England. It doesn't matter how long ago they retired you idiot.
It's not baseless. Belgium won nothing. It's a fact. Their "greatest generation" couldn't outdo their 1986 team, who played in a much tougher era against better opposition.
Portugal and Turkey still reached the quarters with few or no immigrants in their team. Spin it all you want. Spain won it with world class Spaniards like Carvajal and Rodri and only 2 third world immigrants as opposed to god knows how many in the france and holland teams.
I see you have now resorted to insults. Number one rule of internet discussion - first person to lose their cool and react angrily, loses the argument.
I have enjoyed your responses though, it was fun talking to a clinical retard. I'm done with you now you boring fuckhead.
>No, I meant since the inception of the Champions League in the 1950s. Real Madrid have won as many Champions Leagues as every English club combined. It is total domination.
Right. And the Premier League has only rose to european dominance in the last 10-15 years. It has only existed since the 1992-93 season. How poor it was in the 1970s has nothing to do with how good it is now, and how competitive Premier League teams are in the Champions League now.
>I mentioned those players because they are regarded as the greatest players of each era. None played in England. It doesn't matter how long ago they retired you idiot.
Yes it does. Because we're talking about the MODERN ERA. The contemporary era. Maradona has nothing whatsoever to do with the Premier Leagues relevance in European competitions now.
>It's not baseless. Belgium won nothing. It's a fact. Their "greatest generation" couldn't outdo their 1986 team, who played in a much tougher era against better opposition.
And their 1986 team also "won nothing".
The 1986 team also couldn't outdo the 2018 team.
>Portugal and Turkey still reached the quarters with few or no immigrants in their team.
And France reached the semis. And Netherlands reached the semis. And England reached the final. What the fuck is your point, shithead?
>Spin it all you want. Spain won with it world class Spaniards like Carvajal and Rodri and only 2 third world immigrants as opposed to god knows how many in the france and holland teams.
They aren't immigrants, fuckface.
>I see you have now resorted to insults. Number one rule of internet discussion - first person to lose their cool and react angrily, loses the argument.
I will call a racist piece of shit a racist piece of shit.
>France only wins tournaments with French players in key leadership positions from defense to attack.
Baseless bullshit garbage.
>This was proven in 98 & 18, especially when they folded on penalties to Argentina with 10 of the 11 players being immigrants.
They're not fucking immigrants you hateful racist piece of shit.
I'll await a single piece of evidence that having a mixed-race team somehow makes it inherently more likely that you'll lose on penalties.
Do you deny that many of the non-white players in France are some of the best players that France has to offer, yes or no?
And France beat Portugal on penalties, an example of a supposedly homogenous team according to you. And the Netherlands beat Turkey.
>It is "near 100%", actually. If 9 of your players are immigrant background (the starting 11 against Spain), then you are a near 100% immigrant team.
4 of them are from an "immigrant background" as 2 of them are French citizens, that just recently obtained Spanish citizenship. The other 2 are of African heritage.
And France and all the others were outclassed by homogeneous Spain. Lol. Why do you keep tying yourself in knots over this? Get over it. The mostly immigrant teams won fuck all and played shit football.
Ok. So Spain had 9 players who weren't third world immigrants. Maybe that's a better argument just to shut your face up you insufferable prick.
Do you really think you're insulting me by calling me a racist piece of shit? Good. I'm glad you think that. It's an honor. Who the fuck wants to see their homelands invaded by the dregs of the third world and their sports teams taken over completely? I sure as hell don't. It's disgusting to see it. Even left wing liberals, deep down, hate to see it.
It's human nature to identify with your own kind. These are our ancestral homelands, not yours. You don't like it when we say this? Then leave us the fuck alone. 90% of this earth is full of non-white people. Go to them instead of hounding us all the time for just being honest.
The bitter irony is that if a black man in Africa saw his nation's teams being taken over by arab and white players, then you would have no problem with his complaints. That's because you like to see our nations get taken over by third worlders. You love seeing less white people. Technically, that makes you racist by definition as well.
This will be my last post on this topic, as you have proved yourself to be a typical thin skinned internet bitch who starts whining about race when he loses the argument. Go fuck yourself. You make me sick to my stomach. Degenerate shitball.
>And France and all the others were outclassed by homogeneous Spain.
And Netherlands "outclassed" Turkey. And Portugal was "outclassed" by France.
>Ok. So Spain had 9 players who weren't third world immigrants. Maybe that's a better argument just to shut your face up you insufferable prick.
Being black doesn't mean you're an immigrant, you racist piece of shit.
>Do you really think you're insulting me by calling me a racist piece of shit? Good. I'm glad you think that. It's an honor. Who the fuck wants to see their homelands invaded by the dregs of the third world and their sports teams taken over completely? I sure as hell don't. It's disgusting to see it. Even left wing liberals, deep down, hate to see it.
So I got you to go mask off about how much you hate black people and show much of a nasty scumbag you are.
>It's human nature to identify with your own kind. These are our ancestral homelands, not yours. You don't like it when we say this? Then leave us the fuck alone. 90% of this earth is full of non-white people. Go to them instead of hounding us all the time for just being honest.
You do realise I'm white, right?
>The bitter irony is that if a black man in Africa saw his nation's teams being taken over by arab and white players, then you would have no problem with his complaints. That's because you like to see our nations get taken over by third worlders. You love seeing less white people. Technically, that makes you racist by definition as well.
You presume to know what I think. When did I say anything about "love seeing less white people"?
I'll ask again: Do you deny that many of the non-white players in France are some of the best players that France has to offer, yes or no?
>This will be my last post on this topic, as you have proved yourself to be a typical thin skinned internet bitch who starts whining about race when he loses the argument. Go fuck yourself. You make me sick to my stomach. Degenerate shitball.
Except you've made repeated baseless claims that you've failed to back up.
And the absolute irony of you complaining that I'm "whining about race" when the crux of your argument here is all about mixed-raced teams supposedly doing worse than mono-ethnic teams.
>The Swiss team didn't contain any German/French Swiss - all immigrant background including the manager. Even Spain, who never had any black players before, now have two.
This is actual nonsense.
Swiss players born in Switzerland, who seem to be of Swiss origin: Yann Sommer, Gregor Kobel (German-Swiss origin, by the looks of it), Silvan Widmer, Nico Elvedi, Cédric Zesiger, Fabian Schär, Remo Freuler, Steven Zuber, Vincent Sierro, Michel Aebischer, Fabian Rieder, Renato Steffen
Lol, so 5. Why not 11? More than half the team is still immigrant background compared to all Serbian and Danish teams that were all ethnic Serbs or Danes.
Why should it be eleven? Most of the other 6 in the starting line-up were born in Switzerland. They are Swiss citizens. Also some of the 6 seem to be of Spanish origin (Ruben Vargas, Ricardo Rodriguez), or mixed (Dan Ndoye).
I originally said the *team* that played England, not the *squad*. I watched the game and saw the names on the starting 11 before it kicked off.
The Swiss team are mostly immigrant background. Albanians, Spanish, Turkish, mixed race, Africans - none of these are ethnic Swiss. It is not their ancestral homeland. My point still stands.
"The Swiss team didn't contain any German/French Swiss - all immigrant background including the manager. Even Spain, who never had any black players before, now have two."
You just said "Swiss team". No mention of England.
>The Swiss team are mostly immigrant background. Albanians, Spanish, Turkish, mixed race, Africans - none of these are ethnic Swiss. It is not their ancestral homeland. My point still stands.
Not the overall squad they aren't. And who gives a fuck about the specific team composition on that day?
No, you're clearly not a football fan. There is a clear difference between a team and a squad. I would've mentioned their entire national squad, and not team, if that was my point.
Spain had a black player in their 2008 Euros: Marcos Senna. Thiago Alcantara is also mixed race Brazilian who played several games for Spain including a World Cup and Euros, but injuries prevented him from playing more.