Bezos has amazing vision, and power of execution to be able to create in one lifetime, the span of about 20 years America's best company. Should he pay his workers more? Yes. Should Amazon pay more taxes? Yes. But these are things do not exist in a vacuum. Every company must do these things for our country ... don't just pick on the best company. Walmart has had these criticisms since the 90s or maybe before.
shareWhat is amazing to me about his company is that it's based on a simple business platform. He basically migrated the shopping experience from a brick and mortar to an online supermarket. That's it. Oh and yes, there is more to choose from with more competitive pricing so that's basically the biggest advantage it has over a Big Box retailer that has to compete both physically and online with Amazon. Stores like Walmart and Target try to duplicate the same model but I notice that they have less than 30% of the entire product categories and choices you can find on Amazon.
shareI think you are missing the main thing - which is that Amazon is totally customer-centric. I have really never had a bad buying experience and they will go out of their way often to make things right. Out of the blue one time I rented a movie that I watched for a while and didn't finish and a while later I got a credit for that movie.
Amazon moves fast and actually improves over time. For me price is also secondary. I will pay more for something knowing that if I don't like it I can send it back for a full refund. Because with other companies, or so-called brick and mortar stores returns can be a real hassle. I will get some things at Walmart or Staples/Office Depot of Home Depot because of price, because there are some categories of products that are not up to speed on Amazon such as plastic storage boxes or automobile batteries and some tools. Same with books, music and video. I would never buy from iTunes because the choices are limited and last time I checked more expensive.
One thing I do not like that Amazon did was to remove the ability to reply or comment on reviews. I understand why they did that - trolls in the reviews and questions, and that is a problem. But I think if there is a solution to that Amazon will be the first to implement it.
I would say that their Consumer-centric. I have a Prime account and they do everything possible to get me to buy something I don't need. That's not a new concept either, Amazon is just more efficient with it.
I also have had problems and inefficiencies with their delivery system as they've failed to live up to their delivery date estimates and more than a dozen times rescheduled weeks longer after initially confirming only a few days for final delivery. There's also still the issue of Amazon Store resellers who advertise items that they don't even have then wait to tell you after you paid them, only to go thru the hassle of the refund process.
> I have a Prime account and they do everything possible to get me to buy something I don't need.
I guess I am better at resisting ads, or in managing or deleting spam.
I agree with some of your criticisms. Delivery times have been an issue occasionally, but in general I have gotten things a lot faster than it used to be with mail-order stuff. You may not remember the days of "allow 3 to 6 weeks for delivery". Most of the delivery time problems I have had have been with non-Amazon sellers, but Prime has screwed up a few times as well.
Here is an example. I bought some shoes, twice now, and they were at a great price. Then on delivery day, they don't show up. Then a few days later they don't show up still, so I notify Amazon, and they refund my money - but the price of the shoe is not higher. The point I want to make is that a lot of sellers are the problems here as they find out different ways to use Amazon to scam the customers. Also, fake reviews are a problem too.
I used Amazon to sell off my old CD, DVD, Blueray and book collection. I had a perfect 5/5 rating because I used to package every item in a way that made it break-proof, and sent it off so it arrived early. You have to pay attention to what seller you are using and what their rating is. I still thing Amazon is currently the best company in the US.
There are some items like clothing or the shoes you mentioned that require an in-person purchase rather than online. You go to a store, find a pair of shoes that fits, pay for your purchase and are done in one trip. No repacking of the item. No unnecessary trips to the post office. No wondering if you will get a full refund. No need to go through the purchasing process all over again.
This is another of my many reasons why I think online shopping is a terrible idea.
I have bought a lot of clothes online. If they do not fit I send them back and buy a size smaller or larger. I just take my returns to an Amazon box, or a Whole Foods, or a Ross store ... there are a lot of very convenient ways to return things.
shareMore unnecessary steps that a single trip to a clothing store would have prevented. One stop and done.
shareI've had to take stuff back from the store as well, and there is the time, gas, traffic, waiting in line, spending extra money on those compulsive buys and all the time I go to stores that have nothing I want. I go to the stores and malls for the fun and exercise, but mostly I get what I need from Amazon or online.
shareHave you seen the movie Wall-E?
shareOrder a product from home and have it delivered. Big deal. Sears, Roebuck and Company started this with their catalogues back in 1892. This concept is nothing new; only the technology has changed.
I don't give Jeff Bezos any pat on the back. The guy rakes in billions off the backs of the workers and doesn't pay any taxes.
Working conditions at the warehouses are horrible. Their delivery drivers aren't treated much better, either. Malls are half-vacant and small businesses have been run into the ground thanks to Amazon. The handful of times I've used Amazon (only as a last resort) didn't leave me one bit impressed with their service. There's a lot of room for improvement.
Now he's trying to buy up M.G.M. Studios. Why is this necessary?
I'm not giving him a pat on the back either. I'm just amazed at how the traditional retailers failed to match his strategy and outspend him when they had the opportunity.
The Greed you associate him with is no different than the greed reflected by failed brick and mortar giants like Sears Roebuck whose shareholders and BoD purposely let it die a slow death so they could shuffle the debt around while maintaining the real estate assets their dead stores sit on. Where's the outrage over that? Oh, and guess what, they paid very little in taxes or even less as they can write-off the failed stores while pocketing the rest.
FUCK SEARS...FUCK AMAZON TOO.🙂
shareI agree. Greed permeates everything. Bezos isn't the only one guilty of this. I blame them all.
shareThere is a misconception here that Bezos "rakes in billions".
Bezos' salary at Amazon is 82K per years.
His wealth comes from the stock market value of his Amazon ownership shares appreciating.
That is not cash, it is not money in the bank.
I agree there is a big problem in the way the US stock market works and valuation .... BUT, that is not Jeff Bezos, that is all rich people. They pay no taxes until they sell their stocks and then they pay based on appreciation, i.e. capital gains. If they have clever accountants they can shelter their money and lower taxes ... but that is the problem with our government ... it only serves billionaires ... that is capitalism.
We need a more socialistic economy/country ... but people have been programmed to get hysterical at that word. Socialism is basically democracy, and democracy has basically been the historic fight against the abuses of the wealthy and powerful against the people, and the environment. They don't tell you that, but that is the basis of how democracy started ... the organized ( think unions ) opposition against Kings, aristocrats, dictators, emperors, the very rich and powerful who treated people like commodities.
So what if Bezos receives "only $82K/year" (not taking into account other "perks")? It vastly surpasses that of the warehouse workers and drivers who do the actual work for $15/hour.
"We need a more socialistic economy/country..."
I totally agree. I believe in a free-market, supply-and-demand driven economy, but not corporate-dominated capitalism which runs small businesses into the ground. People who get worked up over the word "socialism" usually have no clue at all what it means.
There are those who would love to see a return to a feudalistic-style society in which an aristocracy (corporations and the wealthy) rules over the serfs and peasants (modern-day wage slaves). The U.S. is already on its way to becoming a one-party oligarchy: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
I think all companies should pay even their most modest workers a living wage ... and the way to do that is through legislation, democracy and education, not by picking on Jeff Bezos.
I'm not singling out Jeff Bezos; he just happens to be the topic of the conversation here. As I said above, they are all guilty.
shareThey are all guilty of making the most of the current law ... maybe it our legislators that are bought and sold to make special laws to give socialism to the super-rich.
shareOur legislators are bought and sold, and both major parties are guilty of this. The U.S. is a one-party oligarchy. See my comment above.
shareI don't believe that it is yet, totally. You can see real democracy still working in the Democratic party, but at the top, you have a point, the leadership is beholden to the economic and military establishment. The Democrats would do better if they explained this to people, but people are stupid, that is the main reason we have the system we have.
shareyeah... that's his officially declared salary that is taxed. We are talking about the undeclared salary (not stocks either). I love these fucking billionaires - they often claim to have no money, with all their money being trapped in stocks. Some that do have tons of money in cash, claim that they will most definitely give it all away before they die - lol
You do not get a 500 million dollar yacht on 82 thousand dollars a year
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/jeff-bezos-amazon-superyacht-pandemic-b1845278.html
Yeah, I have to say that "yacht" pretty much turns my stomach. That is not so admirable. Found out about it after I wrote this.
Here is an article from the Guardian Long Reads.
Why Silicon Valley billionaires are prepping for the apocalypse in New Zealand
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/15/why-silicon-valley-billionaires-are-prepping-for-the-apocalypse-in-new-zealand
It and when the apocalypse comes a lot of these super rich are going to desert the USA and hightail it down to the Southern Hemisphere where life will be milder and live in comfort while the country that made them rich goes through its death throes. Then they can ruin New Zealand too and blame everyone else.
All because of the masses of stupid manipulatable voters who put people in office who have allowed the US to contract metastatic cancer of society.
I wouldn't put the whole blame on the masses. Masses comprise of human beings - human beings are easy to brainwash/manipulate via mass media. Mass media is owned/controlled by the uber rich. So, in many ways, uber rich own/control the masses.
shareI agree, but there are many, many Americans who are willfully ignorant.
share[deleted]
When I was teenager back in the 80s I worked in a warehouse (tool fasteners and lumber distribution) and I had about 10% of the work-place bennies that Amazon warehouse workers got. I didn't get the opportunity to learn how to use a forklift and get certified so I was basically a human version of those robots Amazon uses in their Disty centers. Oh, and I didn't get healthcare and there was no on-site lunch/snacks for us. We had to bring our own and our location was so remote there wasn't enough time to take a break outside with our 30 minute max lunch time.
shareSounds a lot like my life. So what's your point?
shareIn a perfect world, billionaires shouldn't even exist. Since they do, there must be something inherently wrong with the system.
shareExactly!
shareIn a perfect world is normal that they exist.
Have a product that appeal to masses = billionaire. Simple as that ...
But the profits aren't distributed equitably. That's the problem.
shareSo did you invest equitably in the business? Money and time and intelligence?
No?
Then why should the profits be split with you????
I'm so tired of this socialism trope "oooo, the products of your work, investment and efforts should be distributed to me as well, although I've done NOTHING to improve or make the business successful."
Start a business, put all your money and time into it and when it becomes successful (IF it becomes successful) please share the profits with me. And if your business fails please don't look at me to cover your loses, I only want to participate in the distribution of the profits and NOTHING more ...
> Then why should the profits be split with you????
You're ok with companies evading taxes via tax haven?
Well, then you should ask the government to fix the loopholes.
If there would be a loophole that would permit you to not pay taxes wouldn't you use it???
Plus: amazon doesn't pay taxes for different reasons, not via tax havens.
They don't pay taxes because:
1 they are big and smart enough to negotiate with the government to receive tax breaks/credits for building a facility that would bring A LOT more in taxes to that state.
2 almost all profit is reinvested so there is actually close to zero profit. Zero profit = zero taxes.
https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/8/21/20826405/amazons-profits-revenue-free-cash-flow-explained-charts
You still didn't tell me WHY should ANY company split the profits with you ... are you going to the mom&pop restaurant in the corner of your block to ask them to split their profits with you as well? Why not???
> If there would be a loophole that would permit you to not pay taxes wouldn't you use it???
Your neighbor left the apartment, got into his car, and drove away. You notice he accidentally left his apartment door open. What do you do? rob his apartment? Would be his fault, after all, should have closed the door properly. Loophole! And why aren't there any government agents closing our doors after we leave? It's the government's fault, too.
> You still didn't tell me WHY should ANY company split the profits with you
I hijacked this part of the thread, but I think OP meant that while everybody at Amazon is working hard for the company to make a profit, Bezos ends up in space admiring the view and workers on the street complaining about working conditions.
I'm not against Amazon or Bezos per se (in fact I do enjoy their products and follow Blue Origin), but it's the same "game" everywhere, the system is rigged, and you have to be an asshole to reach the top. Once you get there, a little philanthropy and people will open threads about how much they "totally admire" you.
Btw, why do you defend Amazon so much, you work there?
1. Stupid analogy: getting in the neighbor house would still be illegal and I would get arrested for that. Leaving the door open or closed has nothing to do with a breaking and entering felony. The tax loopholes are 100% legal ...
2. Amazon pays their workers better than a lot of other companies and the work conditions are better. Workers don't work hard for Amazon to make a profit, they don't care if Amazon makes profit or not, cut the bullshit. They work for a wage and that's all.
No, I don't work for Amazon, if I would probably I would make at least 20% more of what I make now.
BTW, why do you hate Amazon so much, show me on this doll where Bezos touched you ...
"So did you invest equitably in the business? Money and time and intelligence?"
Peoples' entire lives get invested in the business. Workers' time and talent are spent making the company run. So why should the profits be split? The answer is obvious. Without a labor force there would be no business.
The workers are paid for their work. Do you want payment or share of the profit? And if there is zero profit you get zero payment and if the company is in the red you bring money from home.
BTW, the CEO is working as well in the company, a lot of times harder than other workers.
Isn't is strange that when a company is in the red the CEO still manages to come out ahead? While the workers get laid off?
shareDepends, when some companies go bust, the owner loses a LOT of money.
The workers get paid, laid off and go to another job offering. The owner loses everything.
If you want to split the profits get your friends, invest together to create a company and voila, you get to share the profits.
But that's hard work and requires you to actually invest and risk. Or you don't want that, you only want "profit".
I had a small bar for few months that I neglected for personal reasons and went bust. Do you think that the workers come to save it? Do you think they cared if I had a profit or not?
Not Everyone Is Capable Of Putting a Business Plan Forward !
Hell, I had a nice Liberal education and A Nuclear Family to live in, but I didn't get that message.
The message I got was We Will Take Care Of You. If you are a Good Citizen, we will take care of you.
But eff THAT these days. No pensions, Social Security running out, income disparity running rampant,
yep, this is what the repubs want Big Corporations making Optimum Dollars, while the rest of of Wage Slaves are being slowly strangled.
"Not Everyone Is Capable Of Putting a Business Plan Forward !" exactly ...
There's a bit of a contradiction in the rest of your post.
the message was " If you are a Good Citizen, we will take care of you." but without pensions, weak social security, no healthcare plans how was the government supposed to take care of you?? I never met anyone in the USA that thinks, specially in the past, that the system will take care of them - the system in USA is not built for that ...
And I agree with some points: USA NEED some tax system reform, NEEDS a better social system, NEEDS a public healthcare system, NEEDS a better public education system, etc,
But guess what: that would NOT stop Bezos and the likes of them to become billionaires, maybe they would be taxed higher but still they would be able to gather a LOT of wealth - and that IS GOOD. Is good for the rest of us as well.
Amazon might not pay high taxes but pays his employees higher than other companies and guess what: the taxes that those employees pay are coming from Amazon, so you could say that Amazon pays, literally, those income taxes, which cumulated are way higher than what the company would pay in profit taxes ...
> Have a product that appeal to masses = billionaire. Simple as that ...
If it's so simple, then why haven't you simply "created a product and appealed to the masses" yet? What, you couldn't find someone willing to piss into bottles?
You're just agreeing to my point: in a perfect world billionaires would exist because it's the natural way ...
shareIn general I actually agree with your, but I would not care so much if billionaires existed if
- they paid 1.5 billion in taxes for every billion they kept.
- they were not allowed to bribe or buy into the political/campaign system.
- most of them did not turn into James Bond super-villains.
Lol.
shareLick that corporate asshole
shareJeff Bezos is a sociopath who built one of the most successful shell companies of all time and was able to get away with it because the internet gets treated differently than the offline world.
shareTalk about timing. This article just hit the Aol News feed a few minutes ago:
https://www.aol.com/propublica-many-uber-rich-pay-135751936-151807875.html
Bezos is cool, I like him, but he could be way better.
He still spends like a bum, buying the biggest yacht and other crap like that like a poor guy with a little dick.
He should take example from Bill Gates instead, who is donating a ton of his money in charities he believes in, trying to improve the planet, showing he's da man.
Making a difference for real, other than raking in a ton of money, which ultimately does very very very little for anybody, including himself.
I also admire Jeff Bezos for what he's done. I've certainly made money from what he's established.
But I get the distinct feeling that if he had conservative views instead of liberal ones (and guided the Post in the that direction), many people here who are heaping praise on him would be spewing hate his way instead.
And you think I care about your opinion because ??? you argue dishonestly and call me names in other discussions? Bug off.
Bezos would not be as smart, successful or customer-oriented if he was Conservative, he's be a greedy power-hungry creep like the Conservative billionaires.
Didn't mention you by name. Just commenting on a public post.
"Bezos would not be as smart, successful or customer-oriented if he was Conservative, he's be a greedy power-hungry creep like the Conservative billionaires."
But if the shoe fits...
Huh? liberals don't admire billionaires.
share