Back to them? BS. The West, primarily Britain and the US have been pressuring Russia and feeding their populations BS, trying to provoke Russia to strike and finally defend itself for over 100 years.
This is idiotic. Putin is going to see this as America going to war against Russia and in that paradigm it is the West playing chicken with Russia and will lead to no good.
Why would any country that is democratic [ Ukraine ] follow American dictates and go to war destroying itself, its people, and harming the whole economy of Europe as well as millions of starving people who cannot get the grain they are used to getting?
No one bothered to call Russia's bluff, and it is only now that more sophisticated propaganda from the West is going output - post war. This is insanity.
I think if you gave the choice to most Ukrainians for years of death and destruction or return Russian Crimea to Russia - it is very clear what they would have said. They said they wanted peace when they voted for Zelensky ... hahaha ... the peace candidate.
It doesn't matter anymore how Putin sees it.
It doesn't matter anymore what lies come from the Kremlin.
Russia rises up against its dictator, the brave ones.
And I'm not surprised that you don't like it.
I don't care about it except in the eyes of what is just and safe for the world.
This war will never come out positive in some way. I'm not surprised you are
clueless enough to reject that.
Putin isn't the only one who decides that.
If he uses nukes it would wipe Moscow off the map...in the next step.
And the people around Putin know that.
Putin just likes to threaten. β»
And that means for you to give up at once when the threat comes?!
Apart from it that this nuke threat is a kind of poker play.
It doesn't make any sense to talk with 'special people'. (policy)
Whithout any remorse Monsieur Putin walks over dead bodies. β»
Game over!
Because Putin is an OLD murderer I should show mercy.
Or 'policy' because that old murderer may press the red button.
Are you aware what you're saying?
If you want to spin it that way, sure. Give the "murdererr" "mercy", and don't put him into a position where he has nothing to lose and no reason to NOT push the button.
Considering such policy decisions is the job of our Presidents.
Anyone believe that Biden has done that? LOL.
You people are stampeding to war, for what? Partisan advantage? Anger over Russia giving up on communism?
You are not willing to give up anything, in order to end the war. You want it all.
Every inch of Ukrainian soil and you want Putin deposed. You probably want to see Russia's government replaced with one more friendly and democratic too.
Thus you attack even the mention of a negotiated peace and anyone who speaks of it.
Yah, I'm so evil that I want the Ukrainians to get their Ukraine back. And yah, a democratic Russia would be great! β₯
For your idea of a "negotiated peace" I'll give you a real "analogy":
We invade your home, shoot your dog and maybe one of your children. After a "negotiated peace" we may allow you to use your bathroom and sleep with us in your bedroom.
The problem is, that if you put Putin in a box where he is facing the end of everything he is and has, and has nothing to lose,
then YOU are the one putting a nuclear exchange in the realm of possibility.
I want to keep Putin comfortable. Frustrated, but comfortable enough that he has a reason to not push the button.
It is the job of the President, and the American voters, to think about how the COST of trying to "have it all" and to judge if that is worth the risk.
Please send Putin flowers every day to make the old murderer feel good. πΉβ
And no one wants to "have" the Ukraine, except the Ukrainians who own the Ukraine and the Russians who invaded the Ukraine.
I'm a 'child of the Cold War' and can assure you that deterrence works better.
Unfortunately we can no longer interview your ex-POTUS Reagan, who 'cracked' the Russian/Soviet nuke threats without throwing any bomb.
If you are doing regime change than you are backing the enemy to the wall, to the point that they have nothing to lose.
Thus, they lose all incentive to NOT escalate.
That is the core of hte concept of deterrence. YOu are trying to DETER them from escalating to nuclear exchange, because doing so will lead to their destruction.
If you are in the act of DESTROYING THEM, then Deterrence ends.
HEre's the deal. THe blind and increasing hostility I have seen against Russia over the last... ten years or so, I don't believe you.
And if I don't, I cna promise you that Putin and Putin supporting russians, don't believe you either.
What are you prepared to do, to convince Putin and his supporters, that you are willing to allow them to survive, if they lay down their arms? To convince them that this is not part of a struggle that they have to fight with everything they have, in order to survive?
Four days ago, you were attacking me and mocking me for wanting to show "old murderer Putin" "Mercy" and now you want me to believe that if they return to their border that that will be the end of it? That you will let it end there and not seek revenge for the terrible harm done by the war so far?
I don't believe that from you.
You know who MIGHT be able to see it?
Trump. Because of his history of NOT being deeply and blindly hostile to Russia.
He might be able to sell that, or something like it.
Every time when things are bad for russia - they start treating nuclear. Ukraine called that bluff long time ago.
At this point only cowardice trumpists and Elon Musk still believe it.
Seems to me like that's Ukraine is showcasing the flaws with 'democracy'.
Note how all democratic candidates can promise anything they want and once elected, do something else entirely (especially if backed by a powerful foreign state and surrounded by ultra-corrupt/easily bought off officials). The will of the people is an illusion - it always was - in every democratic nation. Fact is - every campaign pledge should be treated as a legal mandate - if that mandate is broken, presidency should be broken up and the scammer sitting on the throne should be jailed or executed, but that's not how democracy works. Many campaign pledges are not kept by EVERY president - everywhere. Best liars get elected - lying is rewarded in this system - as such, the current model of democracy practiced worldwide is flawed in the most profound way possible.
Fixing it is possible - but you need a revolution in order to do this thing right.
> The will of the people is an illusion - it always was - in every democratic nation.
I would not disagree with that. I think we should be thinking of ways to make the country more "representative" whether democracy or a republic.
Trump showcases the problem with democracy just as well.
Also moments like in CA where some years ago one of our state representatives put up a bill for Universal Health care, and even the ones who supported it and those with gave positive lip service to it voted not to bring it up for a ratifying vote because all of our political donor class threatened them if they did they'd never get another penny from them for any of their campaigns.
So the billionaires get richer, stronger, more vicious and the people get screwed. That is what Ukraine is about, the unification of the worlds activist billionaire class.
This article paints a vivid picture of what is happening in our so-called Enlightenment Democratic West ...
Trump talks about fixing infrastructure but did nothing but give these plutocrats more money and control of the country. Biden has talked a good game and at least done something, as and a lame duck who is not beholden to the plutocracy for re-election, Biden is the only US President since FDR with the guts enough to actually talk about raising taxes on the rich.
The abundance of the Post-WWII era and the growth of the middle class in the US was due to taxing absolute dictatorial power away from the American carpetbagging Nazis. We just did not tax them enough so they fell out of existence.
Russian since the 16th century. Like 80-90% ethnic Russians.
If you start seeing me not replying to your moronic replies it will be because I am sick of your disinfo and deliberate mischaracterization. You're just another in a long line of trolls here on MC.
Crimea is Ukraine. Look at maps and international borders.
There were no "80-90% ethnic Russians". LOL. Who told you that nonsense? Voices in your head?
"ethnic Russians" who appear in territories of ex-USSR countries and territory on Finland, Japan, Germany that are now temporary occupied by nazi-russia (Karelia, Sakhalin, KΓΆnigsberg) are occupants and settlers.
Once russia invades and occupies some territory first thing they do - try to force out as many locals as possible and and replace them with russian settlers. Then after time those settler starts screaming that they are locals and its their land. Which is not.
Everywhere in Ukraine or any other of those ex-USSR countries "ethnic russians" are occupants-settlers and their spawns. Ukraine's biggest problem was that after USSR collapsed - they let those settlers stay instead of kicking them out to their own country.
Ukraine will not make that mistake twice. Now every city that would be freed from nazi russia - all settlers-occupants and their spawns will be kicked out to russia,. Some arrested.
No, I don't want the USA to invade Russia.
It would be nice if the USA continues to support the Ukrainians in their rightful and brave fight against the Russian invasion.
We have no money. $22T in debt and the rest of the world despises us. We canβt afford to defend our own borders. We are cutting our own military. We have millions living in the street. I am sympathetic to Ukraine and the country's suffering. But America is bankrupt not doing what it needs to do for Americans.
We don't "despise" the USA. πΊπΈβ
Please don't listen to the cries of extremists (left and right).
They may scream the loudest, but that doesn't make them the majority.
In fact, we admire the USA...with a touch of envy for your strength.
Of course not everything that glitters is gold at yours either.
But you fought hard to unite and you were successful earlier than us.
Our little flake in the world became "Deutschland" in 1871.
And you're NOT "bankrupt".
Yah, it could be better.
But you would've serious economic problems if Putin and his pack ruled Europe. β»
Well, you make a good point about America having to rely on the financial and military support of others for its own existence. That is a legitimate analogy. I wish American leaders could have found a way to prevent this terrible war in the first place. I always appreciate your perspective TT
Oh sorry. I thought that was your point when you were talking about how earlier in history, America also had to fight for its own unity. I thought you were drawing a comparison between Ukraineβs fight with Russia to Americaβs fight for independence. It is something I had not thought about before.
No, I made a comparison with USA's struggle for unity and the German's.
Russia invading Ukraine would be like the Brits now invading the USA because they want their colonies back.