Loser
His downfall has been glorious
shareTalented and was cancelled because an actress who owes any fame she has to his talent thought he was to abrasive. Given the shortage of talent in Hollywood right now his downfall is a shame. The Buffy reboot will be a generic woke flop without Whedon behind the wheel.
shareNah he sucked
shareThe first three seasons of Buffy were awesome and so was his script for Speed.
shareHe didn't write Speed.
share"Joss Whedon was brought in a week before shooting began, wrote "98.9% of the dialogue", added major plot points, and is credited with creating the "Pop quiz, hotshot" line."
Although the latter is apparently not correct:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joss-whedon-speed_n_5473795
IMDb should at least credit him then.
shareThey can't, because he wasn't allowed a credit.
"I did not get a credit on it. The studio gave me one, but then the Writers Guild of America took it away, and I was pretty devastated."
Usually if they're not credited, IMDb will still put it with an (uncredited) beside it.
shareI can't say I know how all of that works. The credit for the script legally belongs to Graham Yost, so it might be problematic to list Whedon. It's something different than, let's say, playing "Man in Background".
shareHe had more than one allegation. The dude is an asshole.
shareYup. Serial abuser
shareUnless he raped somebody, who cares?
shareWould you like to be mistreated on set?
shareDid he slap somebody?
Physically assault them in any way?
He had a group of people who kept wanting to work with him so obviously he wasn’t as bad as some sensitive people claim.
David O. Russell physically assaulted actors on set and yet people still decided to work with him, some even multiple times.
shareThen they’re idiots.
Whedon didn’t assault people so let’s focus on him, shall we?
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Why?
Was she trying to seduce him?
Even if she did, she was underage. Does Joss Whedon have your nudes or something with all this defending?
share[–] samoanjoes (58417) 3 days ago
"David O. Russell physically assaulted actors on set and yet people still decided to work with him, some even multiple times."
I read Clooney punched O'Russle in the face on the set of Three Kings for berating one of the production employees (O'Russle didnt return the punch). I never heard of O'Russle getting violently physical with anyone. He verbally ripped lily tomlin a new asshole, deservingly.
The Main accusations are from 1 actor on Buffy and 2 actors on Justice league. Given that the mans done dozens of projects and worked with dozens upon dozens of actors that's not much. And so far i have yet to hear of one incident that was bad enough to cancel his career. So the guy wasn't nice sometimes. grow a thicker skin and get over it.
The Firefly cast had nothing but nice things to say about him. Nathan Fillion stated he would gladly work with the man again.
Ray Fisher accused him, Jason Momoa supported Ray Fisher and said that things were bad. Gal Gabot said that she had to go to "higher-ups" about him and they took care of it. Charisma Carpenter accused him of bad on set behaviour and 9 different actors and actresses on Buffy and Angel supported her accusations. A writer on Firefly also spoke out about his behaviour.
But even if it was only 2 people that accused him, why be dismissive of it? Would you leave your kids with a babysitter who was only accused twice?
Yes a group of people accused him of stuff, did a single one of them provide a shred of evidence?
shareThe higher-ups took care of the Gal Gadot incident. She obviously had evidence.
shareThe higher-ups took care of the Gal Gadot incident.
Yes.
She obviously had evidence.
No not obvious at all, all that's obvious is that higher-ups took care of her when she complained. There could be a plethora of reasons for that. share
Then why didn't he sue if he felt that he was innocent?
shareYou're asking the wrong question. Why didn't they provide evidence if he was guilty?
shareMaybe they did. There was probably testimony from other actors as well. Companies do investigations. I highly doubt she went into the office and they went, "okay, that's good enough for us", and didn't do their due diligence.
shareMaybe, probably, highly doubt
It's ok to just admit they are unproven accusations. The fact is neither of us will ever know the truth, but I refuse to hate someone based just on accusations. Not when I can hate him for many other reasons already.
So it's just a case of she said, she said, she said, she said, he said, he said, she said, he said vs. guy who said he was innocent from all of that?
shareEvidence? Does it mean anything to you at all?
shareWould you leave your kid alone with a babysitter who was accused by 12 people of touching kids with no evidence at all?
shareIs the babysitter also working with an entire movie/tv cast and crew present? Otherwise your comparison is bullshit.
shareYou must have missed the part where he wasn't allowed to be ALONE with her. It doesn't matter if there's a crew there.
shareWho isn't allowed to be alone with the babysitter? The baby? The baby's father? Your analogy is all over the place now.
shareYou've confused yourself. Joss Whedon wasn't allowed to be alone with Michelle Trachtenberg. So I'm asking if you would leave your kid alone with a babysitter who was accused by 12 people of touching kids.
shareSo is Joss Whedon the figurative babysitter or the baby in this comparative scenario?
shareThe babysitter.
shareAnd Michelle Trachtenberg is the baby? It doesn't work still because you said the "babysitter" wasn't allowed to be alone with the "baby" so how are they even a babysitter? Let's just abandon the analogy and talk straight. What is Whedon accused of exactly? No more alluding to sexual abuse and be straight with it.
I don't know if I even accept the narrative that he wasn't allowed to be alone with MT based on an article from 2021 with zero evidence. If it was considered a problem why wasn't it dealt with at the time instead of decades later? Sounds like some bandwagoning MeToo horseshit to me.
Show me the money.
And Michelle Trachtenberg is the baby? It doesn't work still because you said the "babysitter" wasn't allowed to be alone with the "baby" so how are they even a babysitter?
Now you get it. You don't leave someone who has been accused of inappropriate conduct alone with a baby.
If it was considered a problem why wasn't it dealt with at the time instead of decades later?
It was dealt with at the time. She only revealed it in 2021. share
Now you get it.
Oh no I got that your analogy was utterly retarded right away.
You don't leave someone who has been accused of inappropriate conduct alone with a baby.
What is Whedon accused of exactly? No more alluding to sexual abuse and be straight with it. Learn to read or have your vague claims dismissed.
It was dealt with at the time. She only revealed it in 2021.
What was dealt with at the time? Be specific. What are the accusations? Because all of this vague smearing is utter faggot shit tbqh, and I hate Joss Whedon.
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Oh no I got that your analogy was utterly retarded right away.
It wasn't an analogy. I asked if you would leave your daughter alone with someone who has been accused of inappropriate behaviour by 12 people. It's a simple question even if you take Joss Whedon out of the equation. But let me ask you even more bluntly: knowing the accusations given against Joss Whedon, would you allow your children to be alone with him for any reason?
What is Whedon accused of exactly? No more alluding to sexual abuse and be straight with it. Learn to read or have your vague claims dismissed.
It has nothing to do with reading. Michelle Trachtenberg said that he wasn't allowed to be alone in the same room as her and she wasn't going to comment further. If she wishes to comment further, then fine, but that has nothing to do with reading. I don't care about the specifics. MANY people have accused him and chosen to speak out against him. They obviously know something we don't. And this isn't from one show. And it spans a few decades.
What was dealt with at the time? Be specific. What are the accusations? Because all of this vague smearing is utter faggot shit tbqh, and I hate Joss Whedon.
The understanding that he was not allowed to be alone with her in the same room is what was dealt with. I don't care if he touched her or hit on her, if the people on the show made that rule, Michelle Trachtenberg clearly said something to the producers or bosses. share
So you chose the faggot shit then.
Apparently it's difficult for you to say yes or no if you would leave your kids alone with Joss Whedon. But not responding to it actually gave me the answer.
shareApparently it's difficult for you to state what it is Whedon accused of exactly, because you're a smearing faggot with zero evidence except for decades old gossip. Take your faux morality and choke on it like you do penis.
shareIt doesn't matter what he did. I'm asking you if you would leave your child alone with Joss Whedon even though 12 people have accused him of doing inappropriate things even if you didn't know what those inappropriate things were?
shareYeah I know exactly what you're doing it's called false equivalence and lots of retards like you try to use it.
shareMichelle Trachtenberg said Joss Whedon was not allowed to be alone in a room with her. I am asking you if you would leave you kid alone in a room with Joss Whedon knowing that information as vague as that accusation may be. The equivalence is the exact same.
You're purposely playing ignorant to the information because you know that you wouldn't leave your kid alone with him. You're saying nonsense like "why would my kid be on a film set if you said that they were alone".
You dumbfuck I'm asking for evidence, no scratch that I'm not even asking for evidence, I'm asking for specific accusations of wrongdoing, and you cannot even give me a single specific allegation or accusation, you keep falling back on this retarded babysitter nonsense because you don't actually have a fucking argument in reality.
If it's not important enough to specify then it's not important enough for me to give a shit about.
I'm asking for evidence, no scratch that I'm not even asking for evidence, I'm asking for specific accusations of wrongdoing
I know what you're asking. And I'm asking you for the 10th time if you would leave your kid alone in a room with Joss Whedon EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT HE WAS ACCUSED OF.
I've capitalized, italicized and bolded it for you because apparently you seem to playing ignorance to that part.
If it's not important enough to specify then it's not important enough for me to give a shit about.
It's your kid, it should be important enough to give a shit about whether the details are there or not. share
And how many babies was Joss Whedon accused of abusing as a babysitter again? Oh yes it's zero
Fuck off with your retarded hypothetical, stupid cunt.
I'll repeat this because you're dumb.
FUCK YOUR RETARDED HYPOTHETICAL!
Got it? Understand yet thicko? We're not playing your dumbdumb little fantasy game we're staying in the reality of facts you low IQ pleb.
It's obviously not important as you've failed to specify it. Moving on.
Yes but what would you do if a babysitter was accused 12 times but then it turned out she was innocent all along! She was innocent and you hounded her based on accusations now a young babysitter has killed herself over false allegations you monster, what now? You're literally responsible for her suicide in my head!
Swearing and name-calling clearly shows that I'm getting to you.
And how many babies was Joss Whedon accused of abusing as a babysitter again?
Who brought up babies? All I said was "kid".
Fuck off with your retarded hypothetical, stupid cunt.
Don't blame me that you're confused. Did you honestly think babysitters were only for babies?
Got it? Understand yet thicko? We're not playing your dumbdumb little fantasy game we're staying in the reality of facts you low IQ pleb.
I actually even dumbed it down for you by removing "babysitter" out of the question.
Yes but what would you do if a babysitter was accused 12 times but then it turned out she was innocent all along! She was innocent and you hounded her based on accusations now a young babysitter has killed herself over false allegations you monster, what now? You're literally responsible for her suicide in my head!
At no point did I ask you if you thought Joss Whedon did it or not. I even once specified regardless whether or not you think he's guilty.
Let me ask you one final time in the simplest way possible for you to not be confused: given the accusations against Joss Whedon, would you allow your child (at any age) to be alone in the same room with Joss Whedon (in any context), andregardless of whether or not you believe he is guilty? share
I'm happy for you.
Or I'm sorry that happened.
It's a non issue to me as I don't know any specific accusations and no one cares to tell me any.
Once again proving you're a child.
shareOnce again proving you have nothing but vague smears.
It's a non issue to me as I don't know any specific accusations and no one cares to tell me any.
So then your answer is "yes" to leaving your child alone with someone who was accused of harassment by 12 people.
shareYou monster, you're responsible for that 14yo teen babysitter's suicide! How could you falsely accuse a little girl like that you evil bastard? She was only trying to save up to move away from her abusive stepdad and you killed her, you're heartless!
shareYou're strange.
shareSuddenly you don't like hypotheticals?
shareWhat part of "regardless if you think he's guilty or not" do you not understand?
shareHey I'm not the one who drove a teen girl to suicide here
shareJudging from your post history, I'm not surprised why you're so confused.
shareJudging by your post count I can see you talk a lot of shit.
shareI talk a lot, but you'd need to read the posts to determine it's shit. I actually read your post history.
shareYeah no one has time to sift through your trash to find the occasional nugget, I can base my opinion on our interaction instead. You talk shit.
shareI can base my opinion on you by this interaction well, which gave me the hint that you probably have the same argumentative style with everyone else. Turns out your post history proved me right and it was quick to find as it wasn't even an occasional nugget.
shareNo 9 actors supported Charisma Carpenter. They didn't make any statement about what happened on set. just that they supported her. All Jason Momoa supported was that things were bad on set meaning Whedon didn't get along with certain actors. Did Momoa himself complain about Whedons behavior toward him specifically. And accused of what exactly.Neither Carpenter, Gadot or Fisher have made any claims that would support destroying the mans career.
shareThey could have supported Joss Whedon or have even stayed silent, but they chose to come out in support because they obviously saw something we didn't. No one asked for money from him so what would they have to gain? Do you think people just randomly wake up one day and say, "I'm going to ruin this man's career for kicks"?
shareCharisma Carpenter is a woman who made a #meetoo claim at the height of the movement. They supported her because she was perpetuated as a victim and they wanted to stand on the right side of the social media #Meetoo brigade. And they made no accusations or stated seeing any toxic incidents themselves. Just that they supported Carpenter. Why didn't any one of them go on record and report an incident that supported Carpenter's claims.
Why are there no records or reports of incidents from any other cast member from that show. The only one to make any actual accusations was Carpenter alone. I'm not saying it was random. Clearly she had personal issues with him.
I just learned below that Michelle Trachtenberg said Joss Whedon was not allowed to be alone with her on set.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/michelle-trachtenberg-says-joss-whedon-was-not-allowed-to-be-alone-with-her-on-buffy-4132256/
Eliza Dushku said: he created "hostile and toxic work environments" and was responsible for "ongoing, passive-aggressive threats" against her.
https://news.sky.com/story/joss-whedon-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-cast-member-eliza-dushku-speaks-out-over-controversy-12215874
And these accusations are coming from shows and movies. Do you really think these people who have never met all decided to take him down for no reason?
I just replied about what i think about Tratchenbergs claim below under Wint3fir3. Don't trust Dushku after her nonsense on the Bull set trying to cancel Michael Weatherly simply because he made a dirty joke. Luckily Weatherlys female co stars from NCIS all backed him up.
share"A dirty joke"?
“However, in my first week on my new job I found myself the brunt of crude, sexualized and lewd verbal assaults. I suffered near constant sexual harassment from my co-star. This was beyond anything I had experienced in my 30-year career.”
She didn’t refer to Weatherly by name, but she added that the male co-star “frequently referred to me as ‘legs.’ He would smell me and leeringly look me up and down. Off script, in front of about 100 crew members and cast members, he once said that he would take me to his rape van and use lube and long phallic things on me and take me over his knee and spank me like a little girl.
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/eliza-dushku-fired-bull-sexual-harassment-1235113193/
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Specifically what i heard was they were in a scene together involving a white van i believe and he made some kind of rape van joke. Making a dirty or sexual joke is not a verbal assault. And his female co stars from The Bull and NCIS all stood up for him and backed up his character.
shareThat doesn't mean it didn't happen to Eliza Dushku. He easily could have done it without anyone around. But look at the quote above, he continued to do it. That's harassment.
shareContinued to do what?. Make dirty or sexualized jokes. Not liking someones sense of humor is not assault or harassment. And supposedly Weatherly made these jokes on set while filming like the white van incident so people were around. No one else complained because they were harmless jokes.
shareThen why was she awarded $9M after being fired for calling out the harassment if it's not harassment? And did you ever think that he was targeting her specifically?
shareTargeting her with what?. Making sexualized jokes that she found offensive. She was awarded 9.5 million because she claimed she was written off the show for the allegations she made. It was awarded for writing her out not allegations.
They wanted her out because they considered her the problem. The cast and crew stood behind Weatherly and carried on with the show. Incidentally Dushku hasn't done anything since The Bull. Maybe because no one wants to work with an actress that they have to walk on egg shells around when telling a joke. Weatherly on the other hand is about to start a new show with his female NCIS co star.
Whats more likely. That out of all the beautiful co stars Weatherly worked with he for some reason singled Dushku out and decided he would make sexualized jokes with her. Or that his sense of humor has always been what it is and one overly sensitive actress took offense.
Making sexualized jokes that she found offensive.
You do realize that constantly going up to the same person who asks to be left alone regardless if it was offensive or not, is considered harassment, right?
Also, CBS didn't even handle it properly:
In a draft of the investigation report, which was reviewed by The New York Times, the lawyers said the company’s handling of Ms. Dushku’s complaints was not only misguided, but emblematic of larger problems at CBS. When faced with instances of wrongdoing, the company had a tendency to protect itself, at the expense of victims, the investigators wrote.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/13/business/media/cbs-bull-weatherly-dushku-sexual-harassment.html
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Constantly going up to the same person?. The jokes were made on set during scenes. He wasn't going up to her he was working with her. And he probably made the same types of jokes with his other co stars.
Her allegations, and i can't emphasize this enough, are based on jokes. Dirty sexualized jokes but just jokes. Dushku has stated that she was molested as a child on the set of True lies. So her being overly offended by his brand of humor may have more to do with her than him.
As I said, it doesn't matter if they're offensive or not, jokes or serious, when some is being asked to be left alone and you keep going up to them, that's harassment. It's like if a woman breaks up with a guy and he calls her on the phone 20 times a day after telling him to stop calling.
shareBut he didn't go up to her. You make it sound like he was creepily stalking her. These jokes were made in the context of co workers in a scene together. He wasn't following her around shoving the jokes down her throat.
shareYou're also not near a person when you call them 20 times a day and also don't have to pick up the phone, but it's still harassment.
shareNot to mention he wasn't allowed to be alone around then underage Michelle Trachtenberg on the set of Buffy and James Marsters, who played Spike, has also mentioned he was physically abused by Whedon.
shareI didn't hear about this. I just checked and you're correct.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/michelle-trachtenberg-says-joss-whedon-was-not-allowed-to-be-alone-with-her-on-buffy-4132256/
To me it's his worst offense, and pretty much the main standard I have for why someone should not being able to be in power - because there's gotta be something seriously wrong for him to not be able to be left alone in the same room as a teen girl.
shareI'm surprised it even got that far. If I was a producer of something and I was told that a showrunner or director isn't allowed to be alone in the same room as an underage girl, I'd replace him.
shareYeah, for it to get as far as him needing to be banned, it is pretty weird he wasn't replaced, but that's the thing about Hollywood - a lot of bad people get a lot of passes.
shareI know what your referring to with Marsters. He talked about it on Michael Rosenbaums podcast. He simply said he that Whedon intensely backed him up against a wall and complained about a decision the higher ups made to keep Spike alive when he had planned to kill him off. It was a creative dispute.
And there's not any where near enough context in what Tratchenberg said to jump to abuse or toxic behavior. What Tratchenberg said was there was a rule on set that whedon was not allowed to be in a room alone with her. But they never say why. Theres no actual accusation from her. I can read a hundred and one things into that. could be they simply didn't get along. she was a teenage girl and he was a creatively demanding boss.
The problem i have with these allegations is 1. they are extremely isolated to mainly 3 specific people and 2 sets and 2. they are extremely vague. I keep hearing toxic behavior and abuse but these few actors aren't telling about any specific facts or incidents to substantiate it. I'm not gonna piss on somebodies name with out some facts to back it up.
I haven't ever had any boss I've had back me up against a wall, but certainly not a writer/director, so I frankly don't care what the dispute was over, nothing about it indicates it was warranted. And nothing about the issue with Trachtenberg suggests she had to be kept away from him or called her behaviour into question. So he was very clearly the issue. It doesn't matter how many explanations you come up with, the facts that we do know is that he wasn't allowed to be left alone with a teen girl, that's hella problematic however you paint it.
Of course all the complaints are vague - we know blacklisting in Hollywood rarely applies to directors, so everyone working with him before his downfall was kissing his ass. Since then, loads of people he's worked with have either backed up the complaints or come out to support those making them, not to mention that a lot of people were making subtle complaints along the way and talking around the issues he had without naming names. Surely, if he's not as bad as everyone says, he'd have some current defenders, no?
"I haven't ever had any boss I've had back me up against a wall, but certainly not a writer/director, so I frankly don't care what the dispute was over, nothing about it indicates it was warranted."
Marsters himself didn't think it was a big deal or he would have complained. Yet no accusations from him.
"Since then, loads of people he's worked with have either backed up the complaints or come out to support those making them,"
I haven't heard a single person back up any complaints. Just people coming forward to support those making them. And honestly what is there to back up. Again all the complaints are extremely vague. No one has described specific horrible things he said or did in detail. So because of #Metoo i have to blindly believe what the accuser says with out having any factual data to back it up.
"not to mention that a lot of people were making subtle complaints along the way and talking around the issues he had without naming names. Surely, if he's not as bad as everyone says, he'd have some current defenders, no?"
What people?. What subtle complaints?. More vagueness. Nathan Fillion talked about Whedon on Rosenbaums podcast. He said he enjoyed working with Whedon and he would gladly work with him again if given the opportunity.
Eliza Dushku and Amber Benson backed up Charisma Carpenter's claims the workplace was toxic and Amber stated "it comes from the top." Jason Momoa and Gal Gadot backed up Ray Fisher. Everyone on the set of Buffy knew Whedon couldn't be left alone with Trachtenberg. Are all these people wrong or lying? Yes many have been vague, but we know how the industry works. It's the same reason James Marsters didn't bring up the abuse for years. He would have been ousted if he'd spoken up earlier.
And Nathan Fillion defended Joss Whedon 3 years ago. Also, he defended him as a director, not as a person, and made it about the work, not about the man's character. I'm sure a lot of actors would still work for him if he was directing, that's how the industry is. Just like loads of people continued to work for and with Harvey Weinstein after knowing what he did - Brad Pitt confronted Weinstein after Weinstein tried something with Pitt's now ex Gwyneth Paltrow and still went onto work for him later. It's not indicative of good character.
Yes but Toxic how. Dushku thought an innocent dirty joke was toxic so toxic can mean different things to different people. Where are the facts. They keep throwing the word toxic around but they don't produce any factual incidents to back it up.
Nathan Fillion defended Whedon well after Carpenter made her accusations. And all the actors on Firefly have said they had a good working relationship with Whedon. So if Whedon is such a terrible person where was that toxicity on the Firefly set. Does he have a magic switch that lets him turn the supposed toxicity on and off at will.
Are you being willfully obtuse or are you really not getting it?
To reiterate, loads of people who were sexually harassed by Harvey Weinstein still ended up working for him later, due to being contracted to work for Miramax and out of fear of being kicked out of the industry. And again, Nathan Fillion defended Whedon 3 years ago. On a series that had one season.
The fact everyone who has spoken out about him except Charisma Carpenter have been somewhat vague speaks to how hard it is to speak up about the abuses many actors face on set, because there is always a chance he will make a comeback and regain the power he held. And they'll be under that power - just like Carpenter was when she came to work for him on series Angel after he fired her from Buffy for being pregnant. And Dushku was assauted as a teen on set by a stunt coordinator, so I think she's qualified to identify and name toxicity when she sees it.
Loads of people gave statements about weinsteins actions. Things he did. Things he said. A lot of people coming forward showing a very long pattern of abuse and toxic behavior. Based on the over whelming accounts and accusers i can safely say Weinstien was a piece of shit because of the evidence.
There's no evidence with Whedon. Just accusations. In comparison 3 people from 2 sets have come forward with extremely vague accusations about supposed toxic behavior. These again vague accusations are isolated to 2 sets and 3 actors. If i'm to believe Whedon is a toxic piece of shit then show me a pattern. Show me actual evidence. You can't because the accusers have provided none. At least not enough to make me believe that he is the extreme monster they claim he is.
This article details some of the complaints against him: https://www.vulture.com/article/joss-whedon-allegations.html They include complaints not only from actors, but writers, costume designers, women he's dated etc. I would start at the part about Miracle Laurie for some of the specifics. But yes he's had a long history of being difficult to work with, often cushioned by what a "genius" he is. His story echoes the current situation with writer Neil Gaiman, if you're familiar with his current downfall. Hailed as a genius and treated as a god, which prevented a lot of people from seeing him for what he actually is, an asshat with too much power.
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