MovieChat Forums > Donald Trump Discussion > I am still unclear what Trumps crime is

I am still unclear what Trumps crime is


Genuine question .
Whats the crime?
One headline puts it as
Former US President Donald Trump has been found guilty of falsifying business records to cover up a hush-money payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels, making him the first convicted ex-US leader.

He paid Stormy $130,000 and wrote it down as Lawyer fees.
Or you could put it as "He asked lawyer to pay Stormy $130,000 and wrote it down as Lawyer fees.

So wheres the crime?
One theory I've heard is that keeping Stormy quiet is "Election interference" which is ridiculous- there is no law saying all sordid pornstar booty calls must be declared.
(I even heard this is why they upped it to "felony")

I also heard this payment "broke campaign funding / donation rules" .
How so?



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I didn't follow a minute of it except for snippets that invariably are heard or headlines read, but to be honest, it does seem like a political hit piece.

I think the facts are he had an affair with a porn star, he paid her off to keep quiet, then tried to hide the payoff by charging the payoffs to something other than his personal checkbook with the notation "paid for hooker hush money".

To answer your question, the things Trump did are against the law. But felony? Seems like a misdemeanor and fine at most would be the result for for most scum caught boinking sluts and paying them off and trying to hide their disgusting behavior with book cooking. That this was blown up over a political adversary should make both sides shudder.

Like the Lewinsky blue dress that was covered with presidue, it seems like a politically motivated action worthy of a Banana Republic.

I wasn't going to vote for Trump, but this type of political attack is frankly frightening. Between this and the two nebulous impeachments, is this how we want to go? Right now, I'm leaning toward voting for Trump.

Honestly, I look at Trump's crimes and find a disgusting man paying off a hooker, but then I compare that with Biden not protecting our border and wonder whose crimes affect the country and what crimes affect morality?

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It's not a felony to pay off a hooker for heaven's sake and if this were anyone else, they wouldn't have gone through what this man had to go through for weeks

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BKB (6660) 4 hours ago SAID>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"It's not a felony to pay off a hooker for heaven's sake and if this were anyone else, they wouldn't have gone through what this man had to go through for weeks"
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Trump paying off an adult film star was not what he was convicted of. Trump was convicted for falsifying business records to influence the 2016 election. He did that 34 times and was convicted on all counts for these wrong doings. It is against the law to do that. What is so difficult to understand about that?
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/31/g-s1-2086/former-president-trump-found-guilty-on-all-34-felony-charges-in-hush-money-trial

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BKB (6660) 4 hours ago SAID>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"It's not a felony to pay off a hooker for heaven's sake and if this were anyone else, they wouldn't have gone through what this man had to go through for weeks"
======================================
Trump paying off an adult film star was not what he was convicted for. Trump was convicted for falsifying business records to influence the 2016 election. He did that 34 times and was convicted on all counts for these wrong doings. It is against the law to do that. What is so difficult to understand about that?
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/31/g-s1-2086/former-president-trump-found-guilty-on-all-34-felony-charges-in-hush-money-trial

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He was guilty of a clerical error. Oh. How did they prove whoever put the money in the wrong column did it at Trump's behest and specifically so it would influence the 2016 election?

If it was a real crime, why did they wait until now to bring charges?

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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-guilty-verdict-trial-hush-money-case-what-to-know/

Just days before the 2016 election, Cohen paid $130,000 to adult film star Stormy Daniels, who claimed she had sex with Trump in 2006. She agreed to keep her story under wraps in exchange for the money.

After Trump became president, Cohen was paid $35,000 a month for a year in a series of checks, most of which were signed by Trump. Prosecutors said the checks and associated business records were illegally portrayed as payments to Cohen for his legal work, when in fact they were intended to reimburse him for the Daniels deal, among other things.

There is the crime, or so the state says. The jury believed the state.

Are you claiming that fraud is not a crime?

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I dont see fraud there.
Who was the victim of the Fraud?
He gave lawer money to give to stormy , wrote it down as lawyer money.

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Trump did one thing, but called it another thing in his books. That was the fraud.

The law in NY does not require that there be a victim. That worn out trope has been brought up time and time again. Where did you get the idea that there has to be a victim for something to be illegal? That has never been a thing in the USA. There are plenty of victimless crimes on the books. Look here; https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/P3TKA175

You call it lawyer money. The state and the people involved on both sides called it legal expenses and reimbursements. In NY, they are not the same and they are not interchangeable.

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His crime was running for President in 2015 on the Republican side instead of the Party he's donated to for like, EVER and they turned on him.. Prior to all of this, this man ran his Business Empire for over 45 Years and not one complaint from anyone and he was genuinely well liked.. Here, don't believe me, look at this picture of happier times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/magazine/when-hillary-and-donald-were-friends.html

Look at how happy everyone was one big happy family..

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Trump's crime was fraud. Get used to it. https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/P3TKA175

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/175.05

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree
when, with intent to defraud, he:
1. Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an
enterprise; or
2. Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true
entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
3. Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise
in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by
law or by the nature of his position; or
4. Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof
in the business records of an enterprise.
Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

The felony part is here; https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/175.10

What do you think Trump's lawyers are going to say at the appeal?

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BKB (6660) 4 hours ago SAID>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"His crime was running for President in 2015 on the Republican side instead of the Party he's donated to for like, EVER and they turned on him.. Prior to all of this, this man ran his Business Empire for over 45 Years and not one complaint from anyone and he was genuinely well liked.. Here, don't believe me, look at this picture of happier times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/magazine/when-hillary-and-donald-were-friends.html

Look at how happy everyone was one big happy family.. "
=========================================
What? Trump has been a pariah in New York for many years. His Trump organization has been sued THOUSANDS of times. Here, read about the Trump organization's legal woes over the years...........
https://www.azcentral.com/pages/interactives/trump-lawsuits/

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LOL!

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I can't answer your question as I don't really understand either! I do think it was the weakest of all the cases against him, though...Also, I agree with the TT brigade, this only helps him! Oh well, I guess we shall see come November...


As far as I'm concerned it doesn't even matter who wins at this point, the fact that the race is this close means America has already lost!

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He was running for president and he had just said the whole 'grab them by the pussy' shit and it was going to come out that he had slept with a porn star and did kinky things with her while his wife was at home with his baby so he used campaign funds to pay her to shut up so he could win the election.

It would have hurt his campaign if this had come out, it's not a crime to sleep with a pornstar or to commit adultery. It IS illegal to use money that people donated to a presidential campaign to cover up information that the voting public should be aware of and lie about it.

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You're so full of lying, deceitful shit! While it's still not clear to me where the alleged election fraud occurred, what is clear is that the money did not come from campaign contributions but rather his own wealth. I saw the letterhead on the checks he signed which clearly said 'Trump.org'. On its very face, your allegation is preposterous. $130,000 is a pittance to a multi-billionaire, so why would said billionaire resort to stealing campaign finances when he wouldn't even accept his $400,000 annual salary as POTUS, you fuckin'dumb shit snake-in-the-grass? https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37977433

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Jesus Christ. Take a pill, you are totally unhinged. It's embarrassing.

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He's right I've not seen one headline along the lines of

"Trump on trial for mis-using campaign contributions "

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The hush money payment from Trump's personal lawyer to Stormy Daniels broke campaign finance law.

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then how come none of the thousands of news articles about the case mention "campaign finance law." ?

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Where are you finding your news?

https://time.com/6985532/trump-conviction-myths-debunked-essay/

Myth: There is nothing illegal about paying hush money, and famous people do it all the time.

Response: Paying hush money itself is not a crime, but it is a crime to falsify business records. And it is a more serious crime to falsify business records with, as in this case, intent to conceal other crimes. These include violations of campaign finance laws, by accepting donations over the legal limit, and violations of tax laws, by inaccurately characterizing the payments as income.

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Whats key for me is wether he "Falsified business records" do do any of that stuff you listed ( crimes) or just to "disguise" the hush money (not crime) .

Its ok everyone saying
"Falsifying records is a crime!"
"Falsifying records is fraud"

And it is when the mafia doo it or whoever because it is done for financial gain or to cover other crimes .
Trump writing "Lawyer payment " instead of "Stormy Payment" for no financial benefit at at all doesn't qualify as far I can see .
Its the same as if he wrote "Lunch at McDonalds" when it was Dennys.

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hmm
In that filing, prosecutors disclosed that the crimes they alleged Trump intended to conceal were violating state and federal campaign finance laws and violating state tax laws. The court rejected an additional basis offered by the prosecution, falsifying business records outside the Trump organization.


So Trump did all this by calling his Stormy payoff "Lawyer fees" ?
Was it made clear at any point how campaign finance laws were violated exactly?
What payments did he categorize as income?


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You really should take anger management classes because that would benefit you. Why are you so angry? Maybe your worshiping a 34 times convicted felon has pushed you over the edge. Imagine that. But keep lashing out because you're hilarious! 🤣 You make me laugh.

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He didn’t use campaign funds. His lawyer paid Stormy Daniels, and he paid his lawyer from his personal accounts.

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Yes, Trump used campaign funds to pay off Stormy then he tried to hide it. That's why Trump was convicted of 34 felonies.

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No, he didn’t. He made payments to Michael Cohen with his own personal money. Not from any campaign funds, or business accounts.

You spend way too much time trolling Trump to be this wrong.

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Myth: There is nothing illegal about paying hush money, and famous people do it all the time.

Response: Paying hush money itself is not a crime, but it is a crime to falsify business records. And it is a more serious crime to falsify business records with, as in this case, intent to conceal other crimes. These include violations of campaign finance laws, by accepting donations over the legal limit, and violations of tax laws, by inaccurately characterizing the payments as income.

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Nice strawman. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

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If you talking about the hush money trial, then that is everything to do with what you're talking about.

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I was talking specifically about his claim that Trump used campaign funds to pay Storm Daniels, which he did not. Nothing in that cut and paste even addresses that point. It’s just a strawman argument.

This is what I responded to.

It IS illegal to use money that people donated to a presidential campaign to cover up information that the voting public should be aware of and lie about it.

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Why do you care if Trump did or did not use campaign funds to pay Daniels? Trump frequently misuses campaign funds. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/05/1192343919/a-large-amount-of-trumps-campaign-money-is-being-diverted-to-his-legal-fees

Trump spent money for purposes other than what he listed in his business documents. NY decided that how he did it was illegal. It is that simple. Is Trump less guilty if he did not use campaign funds?

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You are right. If he had done what these idiots claim, the FEC and the DOJ would have spotted it 8 years ago. Instead they said,"there's no case here, nothing to see." It was Cohen who went to prison for election fraud, tax fraud, bank fraud and lying to Congress. He took it upon himself to pay the NDA through a loan he procured because Trump kept stalling, didn't really want to pay it. Cohen created the paper trail that got him convicted on those charges. Trump got convicted on the assumption of "guilt by association", the prosecution suggesting that if Cohen was convicted on those charges, then Trump must also be guilty because of the reimbursement payments, which by the way, were entered into his company's accounting records as, "for services rendered." I suppose that's the flimsy, bogus charge of 'falsifying business records.'

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The irony here is that a porn star did more to discredit Trump than the entire Democrat party could ever hope to achieve.

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LOL!

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