Nobody is stopping you from putting on a dress. And if you chose to that wouldn't mean you are implicitly claiming to have a vagina
They are not misrepresenting their sex, that is YOUR assumption about what they are doing. Changing their appearance to a form that they prefer does not mean that they are lying to you, they are exercising their personal autonomy and freedom, same as anybody else who does anything to alter their appearance
If you shave your pubes are you misrepresenting the fact that you grow pubic hair? If you wear hair-dye are you being dishonest about your natural hair color? If you wear make-up to hide a blemish are you LYING to strangers who happen to find you attractive?
If your answer to these questions is yes, then fine. But I'll say that if these count as lies, then they are lies which are not, in any meaningful sense, immoral
Somebody calling themselves a woman is not equivalent to denying that they are transgender. If you were to ask a transgender woman if she is transgender, and she says no, THAT would be lying. But labeling yourself something (woman, or man for a trans man) is not lying because they are not using the term to mean what YOU associate with the term
You can disagree that gender and sex are two different things, but that's a semantic disagreement, not a scientific disagreement. When a transgender woman calls themselves a woman they mean it in a sociocultural sense, not in a biological sense which denotes a specific set of genitals and two X chromosomes
If you disagree with this definition of gender or find it off-putting then you're entitled to your own beliefs and values, but that doesn't mean a trans person is morally obligated to warn you about their dick when you drunkenly come up to them
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asom (6824)
3 years ago
"They are not misrepresenting their sex, that is YOUR assumption about what they are doing. Changing their appearance to a form that they prefer does not imply that they are lying to you, they are exercising their personal autonomy and freedom, same as anybody else who does anything to alter their appearance"
They do lie when they present themselves as women not as men. Period.
When I shave my pubic hair I'm not saying "hey, look at me, my pubic hair is not growing anymore".
"Somebody calling themselves a woman is not equivalent to denying that they are transgender." - yes, it is, they are lying. They are NOT women.
"but that doesn't mean a trans person is morally obligated to warn you about their dick" actually yes, it should.
And it should be a norm from their safety perspective, you don't know how a drunk individual might react when presented with a dick.
Plus, what's the point? At best the individual will say "fuck off" and leave while at worst it might lead to injuries or even murder. And it's nothing but lost time for both ...
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cyberbob (3488)
3 years ago
'"They do lie when they present themselves as women not as men. Period.
When I shave my pubic hair I'm not saying "hey, look at me, my pubic hair is not growing anymore".'
I can see that this discussion of gender is going nowhere so no point in continuing this line of conversation
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"And it should be a norm from their safety perspective, you don't know how a drunk individual might react when presented with a dick."
The OP was whether it is immoral for them to not announce that they are trans. From a safety perspective, sure it's advisable that they let the other party know. I completely agree with you on this point. But that is a matter of what they ought to do for their own personal interests, not what they ought to do out of moral duty.
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'"Plus, what's the point? At best the individual will say "fuck off" and leave while at worst it might lead to injuries or even murder. And it's nothing but lost time for both ..."
Again, I agree with this. But now you are discussing the practical benefits of them announcing they are trans, not the ethical implications
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What you oughta realize is that for your last two points, the exact same results could be achieved if instead you (or any man) would ask every woman you speak to in a drunken, horny state if she is trans. If this sounds ridiculous or embarrassing, that's because it is. It is your opinion that the burden ought to be on them, but your arguments for this are not convincing
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I know men and women who are trans and as far as I know they don't claim to not be transgender. They don't announce it to everybody that they meet, but they also don't lie about it to potential sexual partners. Both for their own safety and because there would be no sense in it. They are fairly normal people and not depraved perverts trying to trick others into betraying their own sexuality
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