People are very desperate to turn this non-entity into some legendary, tragic figure on par with Billie Holiday or something.
She was nothing special, just famous for having died early, but left absolutely no impact on culture or music whatsoever. I wish people would stop making her a "thing", and would focus on the true legends of stage and screen.
Agreed
It’s like Jazee, or however that moron spells his moniker. He was a crack dealer preying on people’s weaknesses. Now he’s a successful music artist which I think is great and he turned his life around. But does this asshole get treated like he’s royalty? I love how the white dipshits pander to this guy
I think all of this is part of a conspiracy to dumb down the American public. When I was a kid, we were taught to respect legendary artists like Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley, The Beatles, The Stones, Nirvana, even older singers like Frank Sinatra and Johnny Cash. But people in the media insist on teaching the new generation to see mediocre artists like Biggie Smalls and Aaliyah as legends. In NYC, officials we actually got a street named after Biggie Smalls. Can you imagine? We have streets named after detectives who died in the line of duty, veterans, famous artists, mayors, governors and...Biggie Smalls.
This has got to be deliberate. The thing about older legendary artists is that they often sang about deep stuff (especially political issues), so I think that's why the mainstream media keeps elevating these crappy acts to royal status. The Powers That Be don't want a new generation of Americans to hear powerful music that could change things.
No offense but you're coming off as a bit of a nutter with all this "conspiracy" talk. There are far more important things to be outraged about.
sharelol
hello from across the pond!
Oh, I’m not British. I just like that term. Lol.
sharelol
shareI do too. I read JJ Connolly and he uses a lot of cool brit terms like that. They have a whole huge vocabulary we know nothing of! lol
And it's colorful too. And fun.
Like, 'old Bill' is one of the terms for law enforcement. Also 'grass' is another term for law enforcement/cops
great stuff. :)
Right? I like learning the differences between words like “car park” (what we call a “parking lot”), “till” (“cash register”) and “nappies” (“diapers”).
“Old Bill” and “Grass” are new to me. Thanks! :)
I don't give a rat's ass how you think I come across. I'm old enough to remember when there were deliberate attempts in the 1980s and 1990s to "dumb down" American TV, movies and political discourse across the board. It was so blatant that this led to dozens of articles and books written about the phenomenon, a movie based around the concept (Idiocracy, by Mike Judge) and even a Wikipedia entry that discusses it in full detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbing_down. Google the phrase "dumbing down of America," and you will see thousands of websites referencing it. If TV shows, movies and political talk shows were deliberately dumbed down for 20 years, why on earth would pop music not also be part of the equation?
So, call me a nutter all you want. I think it's being a nutter not wondering why so many talentless artists--most who sing or rap bullshit like "Booty", "My Humps" and "Stupid Hoe"--are being pushed to the forefront and so many talented artists are being ignored. Or why people like Alex Jones and Joe Rogan were elevated as political pundits, or why TMZ was given so much influence in the news media.
Wow, you’re really aggressive sniping at me and using foul language. It’s not that serious.
shareWow, another person who instigates a hostile response and then plays the victim when responded to in the exact same manner.
If you knew anything about "British slang"--and I do-- you'd know how condescending and insulting that term, "nutter," is. By the way, it's tacky to pretend to be a nationality you're not on the internet, because if you act like a jerk, this will confuse people into thinking that someone from that country is being a jerk. It's also a form of trolling.
Pointing out that you’re the aggressor when you falsely accused me of being one and telling you it isn’t that serious isn’t playing the victim.
I also didn’t “pretend to be British” by using that term. And if someone reads an online exchange where someone is being rude (which I wasn’t) and comes away from it with the assumption that all or most of the people of that nationality are rude then they’re not very bright to start with.
And I think it’s tacky to curse at someone when they weren’t being hostile or argumentative to you.
Actually, you were rude.
shareI think all of this is part of a conspiracy to dumb down the American public. When I was a kid, we were taught to respect legendary artists like Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley, The Beatles, The Stones, Nirvana, even older singers like Frank Sinatra and Johnny Cash. But people in the media insist on teaching the new generation to see mediocre artists like Biggie Smalls and Aaliyah as legends. In NYC, officials we actually got a street named after Biggie Smalls. Can you imagine? We have streets named after detectives who died in the line of duty, veterans, famous artists, mayors, governors and...Biggie Smalls.
It's like a funny joke they never expected to be taken seriously, then the idiotic public take it and runs with it and someone said 'wow, they think its for real, that this stuff is good. Heck why don't we make some money off these idiots”
totally agree.
I forgot about the pet rock lol. thanks!
True, that's why marketing is so dangerous and why I eliminate as much as possible from my life. I won't watch anything with commercials and even mute the radio when ads come on. Marketeers are very good at their job which influencing how we think and feel about everything from clothing, food, and politics.
shareThe artists you listed are fantastic! I grew up in the 90s but my family always had old-school soul, funk and jazz playing in the house and I absorbed it. Apart from a few artists, I don’t listen to current pop radio and instead seek out singers and bands the mainstream don’t pay attention to. There’s a lot of great stuff out there waiting to be discovered. You just gotta look. :)
shareSomebody put 'hip hop' up on display and told us 'this is quality music, it takes REAL skill to do this' and millions fell for the joke.
Nice post. You are way deeper into it than I am. I'm sure all you said is true.
I glossed over some points in my other post. Which is, what you alluded to, which is that it didn't start out as crap. I agree with this. I liked Run DMC and Sugar Hill Gang etc. But.... BUT..... I still would not put their talents on the level with The Spinners OJays Commodores Earth Wind and Fire Delfonics Al Wilson Al Green The Temptations etc etc
Like I said, the pop music world of 60s 70s was packed full of MUSICIANS. And skilled ones, at that.
Yeah maybe the powers that be pushed a subversive message through rap. Still, the public had to buy into it. I just think it's sad that black music lost it truly original glory. Gone. Vanished. Puff.
(please please oh baby please I hope no contrary mary's pop up here to fire off a retort on one single line or whatever. Geesh I am so tired of that.)
I liked Run DMC and Sugar Hill Gang etc. But.... BUT..... I still would not put their talents on the level with The Spinners OJays Commodores Earth Wind and Fire Delfonics Al Wilson Al Green The Temptations etc etc.
Fascinating. I didn't know that but it makes sense. I hear French rap in movies and Spanish rap and yes it does seem different.
Plus our because so violent that took the fun out of it for anyone with good sense and decorum. I don't know how one can justify all the degradation that has consumed it over the years.
I don't know how one can justify all the degradation that has consumed it over the years.
You may live in NY, but you were obviously not born and raised here. Big had a large personality, was well liked and respected. He was the best at what he did and in most songs he would shout out/praise where he was from which was Brooklyn. My 64yr old Jewish employer knows every word to Gimme The Loot. That's right; an old white guy born in 1955 raps along to Gimme the Loot. Mediocre artist? Not in the slightest.
Now when it comes to the govmint trying to dumb down the people, I'm with you there, its obvious.
All you have to do is walk outside.
If she’s such a “non-entity” why are you bothering posting on her board?
And your claim that she made no impact on pop culture or music is inaccurate. A lot of today’s female singers are influenced by her (Rihanna, Ciara, FKA Twigs, just to name a few).
If she’s such a “non-entity” why are you bothering posting on her board?
Then why feed into it by complaining? That's fine that you don't care about her (despite making a thread on her board) but your outrage over the coverage of her getting a wax figure is over the top and a bit silly. You didn't find her talented or worthy of attention but that's your opinion. Not a fact.
And of course she wasn't a "legendary" singer or actress. She died at the age of 22 and had a lot more work to do.
Wow, you're coming across as a serious troll right now.
I didn't express any "outrage." I wrote a three sentence response expressing why I didn't think she was that big a deal. I didn't even mention the wax figure.
You came along in an angry manner putting me on the defensive, demanding to know why I was on her board. So, I answered the question and explained that the constant news feeds about the wax figures are why I posted. Now you're taking the answer that I gave to you to use against me, to claim I'm being "over the top." Why did you ask me a question if you were only going to use my answer to claim outrage? Because you really wanted an answer, or just to bait me?
Point is, I'm far from being outraged. If I came across as angry in my response, it's because I didn't like your sneering, argumentative tone putting me on the defensive, demanding that I justify my being on this board. So I responded in kind.
You didn't find her talented or worthy of attention but that's your opinion. Not a fact.
We obviously have different ideas of what “trolling” is and no, I’m not pissed at all. Should I be?
I wasn’t aggressive or “demanding” to know why you bothered posting on her board. I asked because you called her a “non-entity” and complained that you were sick of her fans putting her on the same level as Billie Holiday so it’s only logical that I ask why you’re contributing to the (in your opinion) undeserved attention you feel she didn’t deserve. Nothing “pissed off” or “trollish” about it. You’re being overly defensive for no reason. And I stand corrected about the wax figure. You did mention that in your first response and not your first post.
And no, it’s not a fact that she was talented. That’s also an opinion. And another no to “baiting” you. I simply asked a question.
Because every so often, this non-entity keeps being shoved down everyone's throats as if trying to convince us that she were Janis Joplin or Billie Holiday. There are a gazillion stories popping up in my news feed this week about her getting a wax figure at Madame Tussaud's. I'm getting sick of it and I'm pushing back against it.
"Your compassion toward the memory of a 22 year old who died in a plane crash is truly inspiring."
Not taking any sides here, but how is this an argument in any way? Seems like nothing but shameless guilt tripping
Shameless? Well that's pretty much my middle name ;) But come on man, this is the internet...people don't feel guilty so guilt trips are pointless. But I found her lack of compassion kinda patehetic personally and have no problem saying so. As for me making an argument, I think I made my point with the line that followed:
Somehow I doubt "a gazillion" stories are popping up on your news feed and if it's truly too many for you to deal with then you should change the news feeds you subscribe to instead of expecting it to change to suit you.
She died young and had a nice career in the industry. I liked her but wasnt a big fan at the time but remember a lot of people deeply mourned her death. Im a fan now and might see some seeing her not a big thing but still she did have her fans, unique style, uprising career, and tragic stop.
shareI believe she was already a thing. She was a star on the rise - this is evidenced by the career path she was on before she died. Romeo Must Die and Queen of the Damned were huge, from my recollection. Her songs played constantly on the radio. And despite how they turned out, her part in The Matrix sequels was widely anticipated. Even after a five year hiatus from music due to filming, her album was still in the top 2 before she died, just behind Survivor by Destiny's Child. It reached no. 1 after she died, sure, but it's not like it went from 50th to 1st.
You're definitely entitled to your indifference to her, but making out that her career was mediocre and downplaying her cultural impact on modern music is just plain factual inaccuracy.
Well said. This OP needs to get over themselves because no ones going to stop "making her a thing" just because he or she doesn't share their opinion of her impact for music in her brief time. She was a huge star and deserves all the love she has gotten. Why? she worked hard and earned it.
shareThanks, Thriller.
shareYou could say the same thing about James Dean or Bruce Lee or Sid Vicious if you wanted to.
So what?
hi
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Yeah the OP i think is just being nasty; I mean the girl had a very pretty voice; I am not even a fan of pop music but I can recognize a talented singing voice. I think she was on par with Beyonce and lightyears ahead of someone like Miley Cyrus (who I am not sure even counts as a singer). Combine that with the fact she died is tragic plan crash at only 22 years old. She was still just a young kid; Billie Holiday had a career that lasted 3 decades; it is utterly ridiculous to compare them; there is no telling how legendary her career might have been if she hadn't been 22 years old when she died. She might have slipped into obscurity like other pop singers or she might have rivaled Beyonce. The tragedy of her death is that we will never know.
And as you said; she was already very successful and very popular with at least 3 really solid hits (I don't like them but they were top of the charts for weeks).
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I think I have only seen her in Romeo Must Die; it is not a very good movie, so don't get your hopes up. Aaliyah is not exactly going to blow you away either. It is alright for a corny kung fu movie; and Aaliyah was only like 19 when she made it so she does alright for such a young actress.
It is fascinating and sad that she died so tragically with so much potential. I can appreciate the talent even if I don't like the pop music. But the OP was an unfair assessment and was belittling both the young stars talent and the tragedy of her young death, and also conflating it with a completely different kind of tragedy with that of Billie Holiday (who has a long a successful career only to see it burned down by her drinking and drug problem that lead to her being unfairly targeted and treated terribly by police leading to her death because of her health). That is not even close to the same thing as a 22 year old dying in a plane crash while leaving a performance.