There should be a room in a prison with two security guards and one doctor. If you are a victim of rape or are the family of someone who was murdered, you are allowed to have a beat down of the murderer/rapist. The security guards are there to prevent you from killing the prisoner or taking any head shots. After the beatdown, the prisoner will begin their sentence.
shareit's called wrongful conviction.
shareThis guy almost became the poster child for a while to represent that: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/lethal-injection/arkansas-executions-damien-echols-ex-death-row-inmate-will-speak-n744471
shareNo. Too many innocent people are incarcerated. 4% on death row are later proven innocent.
I would focus on fixing the broken legal judicial system and crime prevention rather than beat-downs which are likely unconstitutional, anyway.
Not "likely unconstitutional", it is definitely unconstitutional. But sometimes a solid beatdown could help grieving families.
shareNot sure how you fix child molesters or serial killers. People like Charles Manson and his family who participated in the Tate LaBianca murders didn't deserve to live. I agree, there are innocent people who have been convicted, so that is why I oppose the death penalty, except in the cases like Manson and Bundy, where they admit they committed the crime.
shareInnocent people admit guilt all the time. The system is set up that way. They're threatened with no/high bail until trial and a very long sentence if found guilty unless they agree to plea bargain w/admittance of guilt. 95% criminal convictions are plea bargains.
If you were wrongfully accused, would you spend months in jail waiting for your trial if you couldn't afford bail? Lose your job, health insurance, can't support family, etc..
Overwhelming majority arrested are poor who can't afford to fight back even when innocent. And they know they must rely on a mediocre, overworked public defender, too.
The plea bargaining is unconstitutional. I'd like to see someone challenge it:
Constitution: “...the Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment; shall be by Jury.”
https://www.cato.org/commentary/devils-bargain-how-plea-agreements-never-contemplated-framers-undermine-justice#
Oh come on - you know exactly what kind of people I'm talking about. They are not innocent people who are coerced into some kind of plea deal.
share4% on death row are later proven innocent. Other mistaken criminal convictions are higher.
sharePlease, stop with that statistic. The Manson Family joked about the murders, Ted Bundy admitted to all of the killings, some of the bodies were found in Jeffery Dalmer's apartment, the Turpin children were treated like animals and the parents didn't deny it. You know exactly what kind of people I'm talking about. They don't deserve to live, but I personally think death is too easy for them, nor do I think the state should have to support them for life.
Then there are people like Scott Peterson, who I think killed his wife, but not 100% sure - I'm most definitely am not talking about people like him.
You want to ignore the low profile cases in which innocent people are sent to die or languish in prison for years.
Let's discuss George Stinney Jr.:
"Other than this supposed confession, there was no other physical evidence nor any witnesses to testify to his guilt, but Stinney was still charged and stood trial a month later. There was no written record of a confession.
The trial only lasted 2 hours, and after less than 10 minutes of deliberation, the all-white all-male jury found him guilty of the first-degree murder of the two girls. The court refused to hear his appeal, and he was sentenced to die by electrocution just two months later.
An innocent 14-year-old found guilty was exonerated 70 years after his execution.
It has long since been rumored that the person who actually committed the murders of the two girls was 26-year-old George Burke Jr., a white man whose influential father George Burke Sr. owned the land on which the girls’ bodies were found."
https://thegrio.com/2020/06/16/george-stinney-execution-south-carolina/
I'll add the terror the child must have felt facing it entirely alone. His family couldn't come to the court for fear of being lynched.
He was with his younger sister the entire day who said her brother didn't do it.
Things haven't changed much. Something similar is happening in my area now. It's obvious the guy is innocent, but the police needed an arrest.
Ok - you want to argue about cases that are entirely different from what I'm talking about.
Pointless to continue this debate.
I believe there should be penal colonies on islands where people convicted of certain heinous crimes go. Talking about lifers with no possibility of parole - the skumbags of society who for whatever reason have avoided the death penalty.
Drop them off and let them fend for themselves. If they kill each other, personally I wouldn't care.
No. Bur would I go after such a person 'extra-judicially', if I had the jump on LE ?
Probably yes, and do it myself. I would definitely consider it. I may be one of those not completely congenitally civilized.
I think this would also avoid revenge hits if the prisoner is released. I can see someone waiting 15 years to see their rapist released just to wait by their house and beat the crap out of them. At least if it happened in prison, the guards and doctors would prevent an outright revenge murder.
shareFrom reading through all the comments, it sounds like the goal for throwing a beatdown would be to help grieving victims and families blow off steam first-hand by allowing them to witness the prisoners suffering.
Ok, I totally get the desire for this type of revenge, the issue is that it’s not supported by any evidence.
In fact, the research suggests that violent acts of revenge, such as a state-sponsored beatdown, most likely will not offer the emotional relief victims are looking for, such as closure, and may actually intensify emotional distress and prevent them from healing. One study in particular found that people who took revenge often felt worse because the act of revenge kept them psychologically tied to the event.
TL;DR The psychological outcomes most likely will not be the ones you’re looking for, and could actually exacerbate existing trauma.
Sources:
Chester, D. S., & DeWall, C. N. (2016). The pleasure of revenge: Retaliatory aggression arises from a neural imbalance toward reward. Social cognitive and affective neuroscience, 11(7), 1173-1182.
Carlsmith, K. M., Wilson, T. D., & Gilbert, D. T. (2008). The paradoxical consequences of revenge. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(6), 1316.
UPDATE
Found another study indicating that acts of revenge will only reinforce the harmful memories and prevent victims from recovering:
McCullough, M. E., Kurzban, R., & Tabak, B. A. (2013). Cognitive systems for revenge and forgiveness. Behavioral and Brain Sciences, 36(1), 1-15.
I was thinking the same.
shareYeah intuitively Samoanjoes idea seems to make sense, my own gut-reaction would be to throw someone a beatdown too, but it doesn't seem like it would help at all and just make things worse.
I'm actually still googling it and finding even more studies that find it has the opposite, negative effect.
I can't deny the receipts you provided. Maybe I've been watching too many movies.
shareThe psychological outcomes most likely will not be the ones you’re looking for, and could actually exacerbate existing trauma.
I don’t think personal revenge is the answer, however, I think prisons should be much harsher and act more of a deterrent than they are currently in Western Europe, North America, Australasia etc.
shareIn US prisons, sex offenders are either in a special facility or locked up 23/7. They cannot walk the GP yard. Its already pretty horrible - they are extorted & terrorized. I'm not sure what could be done to make it worse, other than serving them up for execution in the GP.
Which also happens. For even regular prisoners, having access to a shiv is, in many prisons, most federal prisons, a requirement.
Have you seen the prisons in SE Asia, especially Thailand? 30 to a cell, no sanitation, dysentery and all manner of unpleasantness waiting to kill you.
shareI can't agree with sanctioned beatings in a prison because even the worst of the worst have protected rights. However, if a person can somehow get to them in public, that's something I can support.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauch%C3%A9
He was 100% right.
shareHero.
shareIve spoken to that man before. That was a major event in my community when he killed his son’s abductor. He has since passed away.
shareDo you know if his son recovered psychologically?
There was zero doubt the man was guilty, so I applaud Plauche for his actions and also the Judge for the reasonable sentencing.
I’ve never met his son but you can imagine the psychological scars from everything he went through must have left.
shareNo I disagree. What if the person that was murdered was a total scumbag and the prisoner who killed them was in the right ? And then the scumbag associates of the scumbag turn up to beat the crap out of the murderer ? Is that justice ?
And as far as rape is concerned that is even more of a problematic area what with false accusations and the rest of it.
The problem as I see it was abandoning the death penalty. If someone clearly commits a terrible murder or rapes someone in a terrible and violent way then the state should execute them. This gives the families of the victims some measure of justice while relieving them of the burden of feeling as though they have to do it themselves. By not enforcing the death penalty the state has abandoned its responsibility to see that justice is done.
I don't believe in capital punishment because I feel that's an easy way out for the criminal to feel any sort of responsibility for the rest of their life. If I had a child who was murdered, I'd rather the murderer be in jail for 50 years going insane being trapped in a cell than him spending 2 years in jail before being executed. But that's just me.
share