Just curious... Seems completely indefensible to me, but I'm sure there are rationales for the horror they are visiting upon their neighbor out & about amongst the Russophiles...
shareWeapon.
Of.
Mass.
Destruction.
Does our unlawful & criminal invasion of Iraq excuse what Russia is doing ? Was the US targeting civilians ? Is this an apples to apples comparison, is it even an argument ?
At any rate, I'm ashamed of my country's invasion of Iraq, as well Afghanistan. Fraudulent in the first case, hideously wrong-headed in the second.
I can see being ashamed or Iraq (I am as well), but why Afghanistan? The Taliban allowed Al Qaeda and Bin Laden to use their country as a home base and safe haven.
shareHow did we do there ? How wise was it to undertake to xform another profoundly backward country root & branch.
I'm embarrassed at our arrogance & stupidity.
Going in and rooting out AQ was cool. Everything beyond that, grandiose tragic nonsense.
The amount of time we stayed was absolutely absurd, however, the Taliban retaking the country after all that time is on incompetent Afghans. After 20 years of support, training and money, they just rolled over without a fight. I'm sorry to say that country is destined to forever live in the stone age.
shareWe stayed as long as we did for exactly this reason. The country is a void that fills with Taliban the minute we empty it.
shareYeah, but why wasn't 20 years enough for the Afghans to get their shit together, so they could handle the Taliban when we inevitably left? We provided billions in training, equipment and other aid, yet they didn't even put up a fight. I'm not sure it's its ingrained corruption, incompetentance or both, but it's their problem now. We gave them everything they needed to succeed and they blew it.
shareIt seems to me that there are some countries where the people are mostly sheep. They obey whoever is in charge of them and don't fight back. They always just hope whoever is in charge takes care of them. Not sure if another 20 years would change them of that but it's really not the West's problem.
It is astounding that they didn't put up a fight at all but then at the start of it all the Afghan President ran off into exile so what do you expect.
Afghanistan is complicated. Outside of the few major population centers, they are still living in a tribal society that hasn't changed much over the centuries. Unless they unite as a country, move into the 21st century and take a stand against the Taliban, not much is going to change. Buy yeah, its not the Wests problem anymore. Shame, too, because they were so close to permanent change and let it slip between their fingers.
shareSame with the Middle East. They say "It takes a generation" I think if you really wanted to fix these countries it would take a few generations. To just completely wipe out the way they think. Not that the West is great either.
I think they need to dump their religion as well. It keeps them stagnant and angry. Again though the West is no longer a good example to hold up as something to emulate.
They were close to going back to how they looked in the 50's pre Islamic revolution but they lacked the leadership from their own groups to achieve it. They just seem to lack the will to fight and want someone else to fix it all for them. Even if it's the Taliban.
Should have learned from Russia, etc etc...
Which brown country didn't we invade is a better question.
Iraq invasion was for their oil. Afghan invasion was to end Osama's network of terrorism.
At the time I disagreed with the former, but supported the latter. Allowing terrorism on U.S. territory sets a dangerous precedent for future attacks. But, the Afghan war was managed poorly.
Gas is five bucks a gallon around here, we should have killed every bastard in the country if we wanted cheap gas.
But once our guys were done wiping the floors with them we left the oil over there!
‘War for oil’ your ass!
That Saddam guy was making a lot of threats, he died cowering at the end of a rope as shitheels should. Most of the U.S. Congress AND people supported the invasion.
We should have taken all of their heads and their oil, those creeps over there are totally ripping us off right now.
Saddam Hussein was an American ally. The U.S. gave him billions in military support against their war against Iran.
At some point, Hussein asked a ditzy American official if it would be OK if he invaded Kuwait. There had been a historical land dispute. The ditz said it's not our biz so do whatever - we don't care. So Saddam invaded. Then, Bush 1 became upset and went to war with Iraq.
Bush 2 war was based on lies like WMD and being in bed with Osama when Saddam was secular and despised by fundamentalists. Those lies were believed by most people which is the reason they supported war. I knew it was BS and it'd become a quagmire that taxpayers would pay for while rich folks like Cheney benefited.
Rich oilmen, including American, make more profit with expensive oil. You really think they care about common folks?
You talk nothing but utter bullshit. Hussain was a pawn, nothing more.
If that was a ‘war for oil’ and we buried most of those demented Arab shitheads why am I now spending 25 bucks to get to The Bronx and home again everyday?
We should have killed all of them.
‘War For Oil’
Fuck your lies. You are a a liar.
Saddam Hussein from decades ago is now part of your daily road rage? I'm still driving on $10 of gas I put in my car a month ago, fool.
shareWell, let’s be honest, you have nowhere to go and nobody wants you to visit them 😀
shareHonesty is as foreign to you as Saddam was, and who you're blaming for your present "pain at the pump", which I'm enjoying immensely, btw.
shareThe sound of laughter in a dusty little cottage must sound lonely old boy, pray that the echoes keep you company for a while, that’s the only company that you will ever have.
shareThis is truth. A retiree, lives alone by choice, likes to sit on his porch, drink beer and keep an eye on his neighborhood. Be mindful of that American flag in the background, you phony, internet tough guy, during this 4th of July week end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMhbr2XQblk
Sure, you are ‘alone by choice.’
It’s not like you ran everyone off you angry fool.
I hope those cobwebs and your musty memories keep you warm old boy.
Keep lying to yourself.
I'm copy/pasting db20's informative article:
"In 1980 when Saddam was on good terms with the United States, he gave money to fund the Sacred Heart Chaldean Church in Detroit, Local 4 reported. The Rev. Jacob Yasso said he will never forget Saddam's offer when he asked about the church's debt.
"He said, 'How much is it?' I said, '$170,000,'" Yasso said about his conversation with Saddam. "Then he replied, 'We will pay it off for you.'"
Saddam turned to his secretary-general and gave the church $200,000, Yasso said. The money reportedly helped build the Chaldean Center of America located on Seven Mile Road next to the Sacred Heart Chaldean Church, which received an earlier Saddam gift of $250,000, the station reported.
More Iraqi money reportedly went to other churches around Detroit and around the country.
Yasso has photographs of the 1980 meeting in Baghdad inside the presidential palace. At the time of the meeting, Saddam was reportedly seen as more of a friend than a foe. He was a man who could check the spread of extremism in neighboring Iran, the station reported.
"He's a different person," Yasso said. "Why? Ask his conscience. Because what he did to the country ... three wars ... Iran, Kuwait and now."
The Chaldean Center houses the church offices, a Chaldean cultural museum and a school that teaches English. Many people who fled Iraq to start a new life in the United States reportedly now benefit from the place he helped build.
Yasso reportedly took criticism for accepting the gift years ago, but said it came with no strings attached and he has no regrets.
"I could do something for the history. Build something for the people," Yasso said.
I said, 'Mr. President, I have a gift from the mayor of Detroit for you. The key of the city of Detroit. Offiically you are an honorary citizen of Detroit,'" Yasso said.
To the relief of Yasso and the city, Saddam never used the key, Local 4 reported."
What a hero of the people he was. He sure shitted himself when they walked him up to the noose that ended him:)
shareGlad you found it interesting. That was my intention.
shareLeave your gas guzzler in the garage and take public transportation!
shareYou are so self righteous, not every place has mass transit you silly Lady. Is there a subway stop in the woods over here that can get me all the way to The Bronx and back everyday?
No, there is not.
Don’t talk silly to me you phony.
Bull! Drive your gas guzzler to the train station like everyone else.
You put yourself in a dopey position by deciding to live in the woods like Grizzly Adams, then cry about it. Cry me a river!
More of your fake morally superior nonsense. You think everyone lives near a train you dumbass?
You know why people live way out here in the wooded areas of The Hudson River Valley? Because crime is almost non-existent here and the schools for our children are excellent.
You are a bore. Fuck you and fuck your lectures.
"You think everyone lives near a train"
No, that's the reason people DRIVE to the train. Duh!
"wooded areas of The Hudson River Valley?"
LOL! Yonkers? LOL!
"crime is almost non-existent here"
Almost? Funny, those people in Highland Park thought the same thing. Plenty of gun nuts in your area, too.
"schools for our children are excellent."
Highly doubtful. BTW, I'm pretty sure they're being traumatized by routinely scheduled active shooter drills.
If I need to drive to the train I’m just driving the whole goddam way.
Duh! fuckwit.
I’m Living an hour North from Yonkers now, try to keep up.
Crime is low here and the schools are real good out here in the woods.
And owning a lot of guns does not make anyone a ‘nut.’ We have Constitutional rights over here you silly old bag.
"I’m just driving the whole goddam way"
Don't complain about gasoline prices when you CHOOSE to drive. Duh! We both know that most commuters drive to the train, Whiny Prima Donna.
"I’m Living an hour North from Yonkers now, try to keep up."
You're the one who called yourself Yonkers. Try to be consistent and logical.
"Crime is low here and the schools are real good out here in the woods."
LOL! No people. Just deer and their ticks.
"We have Constitutional rights"
You're not a well-regulated militia. Owning two hundred military weapons to feel safe makes you a gun nut.
I didn’t read much of that dummy.
shareGun legislation for individuals has been regulated by the state where you live for the past 200+ years until recently when gun manufacturers feared losing profit.
The Constitution wanted to ensure that a wannabe tyrant in control of the Federal government could never take over the entire country by banning state militias and THEIR access to arms.
The Founding Fathers didn't want any standing national army except in an emergency and for no more than 2 years. Only a Navy and state-run militias were originally allowed in the Constitution. If you read it, you would know that!
So much for the "excellent schools" in your neck of the woods.
The schools here are fine and every guy in the neighborhood is armed, crime is hardly a concern at all, maybe an auto theft once in a blue moon.
But Keep talking your shit you angry old woman, you are amusing.
You're too dumb for words. Street crime is related to poverty, therefore there isn't going to be much crime unless you live in a poor area. Gun ownership would have nothing to do with that.
I'm sure you and your neighbors are committing crime by snorting things.
You have proven that your schools are crap.
"you angry old woman"
That would be your wife, but who could blame her since she's married to you.
You don’t think they have guns in the hood dummy? I don’t live near poor people because I am not poor.
The schools are excellent here.
And BULLSHIT to you, a bunch of reasonable Americans happen to have a lot of guns and we are criminal Coke addicts?
We like good schools for our kids and safe neighborhoods free of dirtbags here.
You are a total idiot.
“I'm sure you and your neighbors are committing crime by snorting things.”
A bit harsh and judgemental.
BTW, New York has strict gun laws which means there is fewer gun violence than states with looser laws. Gun nut states like Alabama, Texas, Arizona and Florida are much more violent.
shareWeak and desperate clawing from a cranky old Lady👎
shareThis might help (Facts ‘n Figures Andy): -
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
... and yet gun crimes are higher in states with strict gun laws. Funny thing about Left legislation. Ever notice the redundancies within gun law? Pass the laws but don't enforce them. If the problem goes away so too does the power absorbed via being the Chief Cleaner.
shareHere’s some actual stats - make of it what you will (Statistician Andy)
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
There’s always the possibility he lived there when he created his Username. Plus, my understanding is that you cannot change it either.
share62% of Iraq's oil goes to China and India
Asia (led by India, China, and South Korea) was the main regional destination for Iraq’s crude oil, importing 62% of Iraq’s crude oil exports in 2019 (Figure 2). China and India each imported almost 1 million b/d of crude oil from Iraq (nearly half of Iraq’s total exports), making them the top buyers of Iraq’s crude oil during the year. Outside of Asia, the United States imported the most crude oil from Iraq at 331,000 b/d (8% of Iraq’s total exports). U.S. crude oil imports increased year over year in 2017 by more than 180,000 b/d, mainly to partly offset declining U.S. crude oil imports from Venezuela. However, Iraq’s oil exports to the United States declined in 2018 and 2019 because of higher U.S. crude oil production and higher U.S. imports from heavy oil sands in Canada. Collectively, European countries imported 24% of Iraq’s crude oil exports.
1. Iraq nationalized its oil fields and kicked out most U.S. oil companies. The U.S. wanted access to it.
2. The U.S. also wanted to turn Muslim countries into friendlier democracies.
3. Saddam Hussein was talking about having oil bought with euros instead of dollars. Huge threat.
Was the US targeting civilians ? Is this an apples to apples comparison, is it even an argument ?
You know, fair enough.
shareIraq1: Ally country is attacked w Anthrax (which is a WMD) in violation of International law. Invade but leave govt structure intact. Didn't "take all the oil" like some said and still say. Terms of surrender: No fly zone. Proof of disposal of Anthrax and other WMDs.
Iraq2: Violation of terms of surrender from Iraq1. Once again, leave without "taking all that blood oil!"
I agree that invading Afghanistan was wrong headed.
LOL
And not just Iraq... MANY countries. I don't even wanna hear about Ukraine or see those fucking flags that mean nothing -- just trendy shit.
Having said that, all the phony left-wingers (many who have been on RT, etc) suddenly lost their anti-war credentials.
you're retarded if you think Iraq is an apples to apples comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4xDfHnM6QM&t=158s
Da
shareRussians fighting Russians, far as I'm concerned. Back in the USSR days Ukranians were considered Russians.
shareYes, but they don't deserve to die for stupidly never joining the U.N. out of fear. They should've known he would attack sooner or later.
shareUkraine is a founding member of the United Nations actually. They snubbed their noses at NATO when they became independent in 1991. Fuck 'em. Not worth World War III.
shareNo, they were Soviets.
share
I believe TheMan18 is Russian, and if he is, he's too cowardly to respond to your post.
🤨
You were too cowardly and exasperated to deal with me, which is why I became the first poster here on your Ignore list.
shareIf I remember correctly TheMan18 is one of those anti-war Russians who cry over Ukraine.
I remember the Cold War like you and I don't trust Russia. However, in this one Putin is right and he is trying to avoid a provocation to a nuclear war with NATO.
Ukraine was flirting with NATO. I do not want my country committed to defend Little Russia. Not our problem.
I disagree completely. Invading a country because they might join NATO makes absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever. You don't invade a sovereign country because you suspect they might do something. Putin is a monster and a war criminal. He simply wants to rebuild the old Soviet Union. I hope he gets assassinated.
And don't worry. We're not going to send any troops, just aid.
Fuck Putin and Russia and Slava Ukraini!
🤨
If Russia had not invaded Ukraine, they would have joined NATO. Only after Russia invaded did the actor/comedian Zelensky declare he would not join NATO.
I do not want America to be drawn into a nuclear war over the Ukrainian S.S.R. Not our problem.
And he can't rebuild the Soviet Union. Most the former Soviet republics are Muslim. He won't risk a jihad with Iran and the Arabs.
Russia has been invading Ukraine since 2014. Russia and their minions shot down the MH17 jetliner in 2014. Russia also confiscated Crimea with little green men in 2014. Russia has nuclear weapons so NATO will not attack Russia.
Putin and many Russians don't believe that Ukraine should exist independently. Ukraine was forced to be a part of the Russian Empire and the USSR. After WW1, the Soviets invaded most/all? of the former Russian Empire countries in order to spread communism. Poland and Finland fought off the commies but Ukraine couldn't defeat them. Little Russia was the Russian name for Ukraine and most Ukrainians dislike that name.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-new-ukraine-essay-reflects-imperial-ambitions/
There is also an ideological battle over the legacy of Kyivan Rus. The capitol of the Kyvian Rus empire was in Kyiv but the Russians consider this empire to be the original Rus empire. The Russians can't claim to be a 1,000 year-old civilization if Kyiv exists independently of Russia.
https://www.institutegreatereurope.com/single-post/2019/02/18/the-legacy-of-kievan-rus-the-memory-war-between-russia-and-ukraine
https://theconversation.com/how-moscow-has-long-used-the-historic-kyivan-rus-state-to-justify-expansionism-178092
The US, UK and Russia signed the Budapest memorandum that was supposed to guarantee the independence of Ukraine if they forfeited their nuclear arsenal. The US and UK have an obligation to help Ukraine fight off the Russians.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/12/05/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memorandum/
But before 1991 Ukraine had never been independent. It was the Soviet Union which first gave it autonomy as the Ukrainian SSR. The previous thousands years it has almost always has been a part of Russia. This is why I keep saying this is an internal "Soviet" matter in which NATO should not be involved.
And as you noted, 2014 was the crucial year. Russia and Ukraine were allies until 2014 when there was a pro-Western coup. So yes, Western interference created the current turmoil.
Do you realize that Russia & the Soviet Union gave Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR in 1954? Crimea's population is 90% ethnic Russian. Ukraine's claim to Crimea is rather tenuous.
If Russia was trying to rebuild the Soviet Union, why have a friendly relationship with Ukraine from 1991 to 2014 and then suddenly change? Western involvement in the coup is the answer.
In your first link Putin lays claim to the Donbas, an ethnic Russian region of Ukraine. He doesn't want Kyiv and the rest of Ukraine. If Ukraine cedes the Donbas to Russia this war will end. It's never been about a Russian attempt to annex all of Ukraine.
As I pointed out previously, Ukraine did declare its independence after WW1 and struggled for three years until the Soviets eventually won. Most small nations were absorbed by empires so Ukraine never had a chance to be independent. Western Ukraine was part of the Polish-Lithuanian empire and the Austro-Hungarian empire. Finland was part of the Swedish empire and the Russian empire until it gained independence after WW1. Finland had to fight back Soviet invasions in 1918 AND 1939. The Soviets did not
give Ukraine autonomy. The Soviets suppressed the Ukrainian culture/language and starved them. Holodomor was the Ukrainian famine orchestrated by the Soviets when the Ukrainians balked at the commie agricultural reforms.
http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CS%5CT%5CStruggleforIndependence1917hD720.htm
https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor * Holodomor *
Ukraine was never an ally of the Soviets. They were repressed by the Russians and they want their freedom. The Russians meddled in Ukraine. The Russians poisoned at least one Ukrainian leader and they've always meddled in Ukraine's affairs.
I know the history of Crimea. Crimea was historically the home of the tatars. The tatars were mostly deported by Stalin. Crimea was sparsely populated and the huge Russian naval base is in Sevastopol.
https://ukrainianinstitute.org/today-we-commemorate-76-years-since-the-may-18-1944-mass-deportation-of-the-crimean-tatars/
The invasion of Ukraine took place on multiple fronts. There are a lot of ethnic Russians in the Donbas BUT Ukrainians also live there. Russian soldiers were sent to Kyiv and Russian bombs/missiles are hitting civilian targets all over Ukraine.
America and the weapon manufacturers along with oil & gas companies are the aggressors. Russia is only defending themselves. Imagine if Russian established outpost in Mexcio, Cuba & Venezuela ? The Ukrainian president was paid $1 bill to keep this war going.
shareNonsense. Russia is quite clearly the aggressor here, and no amount of double-talk will change the fact.
shareAmerica and the weapon manufacturers along with oil & gas companies are the aggressors. Russia is only defending themselves. Imagine if Russian established outpost in Mexcio, Cuba & Venezuela ? The Ukrainian president was paid $1 bill to keep this war going.
M'Fer Putin has an army of Shills online defending anything Russian. If there are any of them online, they always deflect the facts in another direction.
share