If you constantly think negative thoughts or negative outcomes, are you ultimately just wishing bad luck on yourself?
In other words, are you just inviting trouble?
shareIn other words, are you just inviting trouble?
shareThere is a little truth to that actually. Negativity attracts negativity (unless we are talking magnets .... wait, are we talking magnets?) so not so much creation of bad luck as trimming one's sails for a less pleasant fate.
Worry is a prayer for what you don't want.
Misery loves company.
shareAgreed.
shareI don't, but then, the whole discussion lacks nuance so I'm not even sure what "misery loves company" even means.
shareThey seem to be suggesting that people who are miserable love to keep company with others who are also miserable.
But IRONICALLY, the ARTICLES that have been posted here to this topic also say that's NOT the case, and that MOST of the time those who PRETEND not to be MISERABLE (by PRETENDING to be HAPPY or OPTIMISTIC) are actually the ones who are the MOST MISERABLE.
Here's a quote that illustrates this point:
https://lonerwolf.com/negative-thoughts/
Stop Fighting Your Negative Thoughts – Here are 3 Reasons Why
positive thinking is actually a form of spiritual bypassing because it is used by people to avoid their deeper issues such as persistent unhappiness, deep-rooted anger, and emptiness.
There is a reason why positive thinking makes us feel nauseous and overly optimistic people annoy us to no end – and that is that, deep down, positive thinking feels fake and disingenuous to us.
The article also explains how SOCIAL MEDIA is responsible for the ATTITUDE that people shouldn't be PESSIMISTIC or TOO NEGATIVE. So that also means that it's SPREADING lots of MISINFORMATION around that isn't helpful:
>>All over social media, the internet, and within countless books we hear of ways to “stop,” “banish,” “eliminate,” and “eradicate” negative thoughts.
>>We even see more noble and spiritual posts out there aimed at helping us to “overcome” and even “transform” negative thoughts into positive thoughts.
>>While all of these blog posts, advice columns, and step-by-step guides may be written with good intentions in mind, what they are really doing is deepening our suffering and causing us to fight against ourselves under the guise of “self-improvement.”
>>The reality is that trying to get rid of your negative thoughts is a reactive and mentally confused approach towards increasing your happiness, calmness, and well-being. Those that advise you to replace your negative thoughts with positive thoughts aren’t actually helping you in the long term.
>>In fact, if anything, the positive thinking approach does more harm than good.
As you can see it also says that "POSITIVE THINKING does MORE HARM to us" than being a GOOD thing for us.
And since my NIECE has also ABSORBED this kind of MINDSET now, (where she'll only interact with others she doesn't consider to have NEGATIVE THOUGHTS) one can also TESTIFY as to how SOCIAL MEDIA has pretty much turned her into an UNBEARABLE SELF RIGHTEOUS MONSTER or into what the article describes as being "an overly optimistic (person) who annoy(s) us to no end."
No magnets were hurt whilst making this thread.
shareMaybe, I know one thing for sure. I cannot stand being around people with negative comments or demeanor. We have too much of that around the office. I can admit things aren't always "gold", but the constant griping just wears me down.
shareI was with some nice people I don't know well a couple weeks ago, but when one retired guy piped up with "that's the government blah-blah-blah," I cringed and thought if this is how this guy likes to converse, I'm out.
I really don't blame people if they are disappointed in how the government operates but it's a complex problem and you aren't solving anything by standing around jawing negatively. Lighten up, please.
Not as bad as people who don't want to hear any complaints and just want everybody around them to pretend everything is great. I cannot stand people who go through life constantly being in denial.
shareSince My niece is like this, one understands all too well what you mean. Because she also doesn't want to hear any complaints, and for you to PRETEND as if everything is wonderful when it is not.
And since her life is also heading for DISASTER as well, one can also imagine what will happen to her once she can no longer be in DENIAL anymore.
No disagreement from me on this note either. However, I am a man of action. When you have people that just complain about everything with no resolved or recommendations for improvement, than it is a waste of everyone's time.
shareIf you constantly think negative thoughts or negative outcomes, are you ultimately just wishing bad luck on yourself?
Not what I meant, no.
shareWell whatever it is that you mean ...
it's STILL NOT LOGICAL, or RATIONAL, or REASONABLE to assume that our ATTITUDE ...
(whether it's POSTITIVE or NEGATIVE) ...
towards something has anything to do with something NEGATIVE happening to us or not.
Because if that were the CASE, then we could also SIMPLY WISH for something to GO AWAY or to NEVER have HAPPENED at all in the first place.
In other words, it's still MAGICAL THINKING to assume that we can CONTROL something with our ATTITUDE towards it when we CANNOT.
So my opinion is still NO to your QUESTION of whether or not the way that we view something (POSITIVELY or NEGATIVELY) INVITES TROUBLE or BRINGS BAD LUCK to us.
If anything, you INVITE TROUBLE by always thinking that things will WORK OUT for the BEST instead of being more REALISTIC and being able to accept it whenever they DO NOT.
I find that a positive mental attitude is the best approach.
shareA POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE is one thing.
Being REALISTIC about whether or not you should be POSITIVE about a NEGATIVE SITUATION is another.
🧐
Focusing on the positives is a better path.
shareFocusing on the positives is a better path.
Absolutely - yes.
shareA therapist may tell you that depressed people see things in a "distorted" way. I counter that depressed people are seeing things exactly as they are -- that's why they're depressed.
We are not all capable of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses or letting bad luck or bad health just roll off our backs. 🙄
Yes I agree that sometimes those who see things in a REALISTIC WAY are also judged by others as thinking too NEGATIVELY.
But those who think TOO POSITIVELY (or too POLLYANNAISHLY) can also be DEPRESSING PEOPLE to be around.
Because who the HELL wants to be around someone like that all of the time especially if you've just been through some kind of a TRAMA filled situation???
If a HURRICANE has just HIT your area and demolished the place, for instance, does one really want to endure someone else telling them how LUCKY they've been to have experienced what they've been through???
Or does one want to deal with someone else who sees the situation more REALISTICALLY, or someone who is telling them more USEFUL information that they need to know (such as where to go to get FOOD, GAS, or other supplies that they need).
🧐
Sometimes I'll get the hint of a feeling that for some people, if you AREN'T reflexively cheerful all the time, you don't have the right attitude. They'd rather be with people who make it a point to exude enthusiasm, every moment should be fun and funny. I find that a little strange and certainly tiring.
shareYes EXACTLY. It's pretty much the same thing as if you ate SPOONS FULL of SUGAR ALL of the TIME, which would leave you feeling a HIGH or a BUZZ at first, but ultimately it would result in you feeling LOUSY and VERY HUNGRY and even SICK from not getting the proper enough nutrients that one needs for a proper DIET.
There's also a story called "CANDIDE" (think of SUGARY CANDY) where a young man goes around with a CHEERFUL ATTITUDE all of the time even when what happens is UTTER DISASTER.
How would you describe Candide?
>>Character List. Candide A simple young man who travels the world and experiences all of its joys and horrors. Throughout the novel, Candide acts as a test for the concept of philosophical optimism, or "all is for the best."
Character List - cliffsnotes.com
www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/c/candide/character-list
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/c/candide/critical-essays/the-philosophy-of-leibnitz
>>Voltaire's wide reading and experiences provided him with sufficient reason for rejecting these ideas. The phrase "all is well," a refrain in Candide, voiced again and again by the young hero and Pangloss, his teacher, is scorned; "the best of all possible worlds" becomes a grim joke.
>>The belief that everything forms a chain and that each individual must keep his place in that chain is dismissed as sheer nonsense.
In other words, he REJECTS the idea that BEING CHEERFUL has an EFFECT on anything, and thinks it's UTTER NONSENSE that being CHEERFUL for most of or for all of the time has anything to do with what happens (or does not happen) if you remain that way most of the time.
If anything, most of the people that you'd interact with would think that you're some kind of a LUNATIC.
📕📖📗📘📙
Being positive doesn’t necessarily mean being a ‘happy clapper’.
shareHere's part of an ARTICLE that CONFIRMS what it is that I've been telling you about needing to "FIND A BALANCE" between being either TOO POSITIVE or TOO NEGATIVE:
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/323577
WHY THINKING NEGATIVELY ISN'T ALWAYS a BAD THING
we're often urged to "look on the bright side," but this advice isn't helpful for most people.
In fact, it's self-defeating.
When people think negatively, they're likely to convert their anxiety into action. Negative people are well-aware that they could fail, so they may take more time preparing for possible worst-case scenarios.
This research was enough to get people intentionally thinking more negatively.
if you tell a defensive pessimist to visualize failure before they throw darts at a board, they're more likely to perform positively. On the other hand, if you ask strategic optimists to do the same, they'll perform worse
Not all mindsets are created equally. There's a downside to positive thinking. One serious enough that it might convince you to ditch optimism altogether --
Positive thinking's dark side
There's actually quite a bit of data suggesting that thinking positively can hinder people from realizing their goals.
There are problems with pessimism too. The trick is to strike a balance between positive and negative thinking.
When we're overwhelmingly positive, we're unlikely to experience stress or anxiety -- two emotions that galvanize us to try harder and strive for more. Conversely, if we're too pessimistic, we can be so paralyzed by stress that it's hard to take action.
So, what do we do?
Explore the space in the middle.
what's right for you when it comes to positive and negative thinking?
Chances are you already know. Find a mindset that leads to mental wellness and productivity.
But, next time somebody tells you to think positively, remind them that negative thinking is a more-than-valid option.
Here's another article:
https://lonerwolf.com/negative-thoughts/
Stop Fighting Your Negative Thoughts – Here are 3 Reasons Why
Is negative thinking something we should be ashamed of?
QUOTE: All over social media, the internet, and within countless books we hear of ways to “stop,” “banish,” “eliminate,” and “eradicate” negative thoughts.
We even see more noble and spiritual posts out there aimed at helping us to “overcome” and even “transform” negative thoughts into positive thoughts.
While all of these blog posts, advice columns, and step-by-step guides may be written with good intentions in mind, what they are really doing is deepening our suffering and causing us to fight against ourselves under the guise of “self-improvement.”
The reality is that trying to get rid of your negative thoughts is a reactive and mentally confused approach towards increasing your happiness, calmness, and well-being. Those that advise you to replace your negative thoughts with positive thoughts aren’t actually helping you in the long term. In fact, if anything, the positive thinking approach does more harm than good.
Why Positive Thinking Isn’t the Answer
Undoubtedly, positive thinking makes us feel good – temporarily. We can even train ourselves to adopt a more positive mindset, which helps us to see life, ourselves, and others through a more optimistic lens.
But while trying to transform our negative thinking patterns into more positive patterns feels good, and may temporarily make us feel better about ourselves, it isn’t the answer. In fact, if anything, positive thinking is actually a form of spiritual bypassing because it is used by people to avoid their deeper issues such as persistent unhappiness, deep-rooted anger, and emptiness.
There is a reason why positive thinking makes us feel nauseous and overly optimistic people annoy us to no end – and that is that, deep down, positive thinking feels fake and disingenuous to us.
positive thinking is still playing by the black and white rules of duality which is a way of seeing the world in a fractured and unrealistic state. In other words, when we think negative thoughts, our knee-jerk reaction is to believe that the opposite end of the spectrum – positive thinking – is the answer.
The problem here is that we are still puppets of the mind – we can’t see that there is actually a third way that transcends thought altogether,
Positive thinking also involves a tremendous amount of judgment. When we want to “think positively” we are essentially condemning the rest of our negative thoughts and trying to be a way which we think is “better.”
Once we have condemned our negative thoughts as bad or undesirable, we are actually creating more negativity, but this time painting it with the pretty face of “positive thinking.”
To be continued ...
This next part describes my "POSITIVE- VIBES- ONLY," "ANGER-PHOBIC," and "VERY Goofy" NIECE PERFECTLY:
Have you ever seen “positive-vibes-only” types of people passive aggressively react to any source of negativity?
These anger-phobic types of people seem vibrant and happy on the surface, but the perceptive person will always be able to see an undercurrent of fear.
This fear comes from resisting life and anything that is perceived as being “bad,” toxic or negative.
While it’s understandable that anyone would want to keep negativity out of their lives, positive-vibes-only people seem to be particularly phobic and resistant to the darkness.
Ironically, this fear of negativity and underlying obsession with staying positive actually generates massive amounts of suppressed emotion leading to an unstable psyche and personality.
The truth is that positive thinking always involves some level of resistance to the negative – that is simply how the game is played. Unfortunately, it is very hard for many people to realize this as they’re so invested in positive thinking as the miraculous panacea to all their problems. However, if you honestly examine positive thinking with an unbiased mind, you can see that it creates more harm than good.
three major reasons why you need to stop fighting your negative thoughts:
1. You cannot control your thoughts
you’re not controlling your negative thoughts – you’re just superimposing positive thoughts on top of them. Yes, you can train your brain to have more positive thoughts through repetition and habit, but at the end of the day, you cannot truly remove your negative thoughts. No matter how hard you try, you will always have negative thoughts.
The truth, realized by countless sages through the ages, is that we cannot control our thoughts at all. Our thoughts simply arise and fall, like waves in the ocean. One moment we have one thought, the next, we have another.
2. You are not your thoughts
We tend to assume, automatically, that we ARE our thoughts, without truly inquiring into the origin and nature of our thoughts. This is why we become so obsessed with “thinking positively” – because we believe that WE are the ones creating our negative thoughts. Not only that, but we believe that we are our thoughts. In other words, we automatically identify with our thoughts and believe whatever any thought says is true. Identifying with our thoughts is actually the root cause of our suffering.
3. Fighting your thoughts increases your suffering
Trying to control, get rid of, or eliminate your negative thoughts actually feeds into the illusion that “you are your thoughts” which creates more suffering.
Instead of trying to think more positively, why not simply see that a thought is a thought, and it means nothing about you unless you believe it? Learning to stop fighting and suppressing negative thoughts, and instead, learning how to witness and disidentify with them, is much better in the long term.
Solutions such as practicing positive thinking actually create more harm than good because they fuel the illusion that you “are” your thoughts, your thoughts mean something about you, and therefore cause you to suppress and condemn whatever isn’t deemed positive.
For thousands of years, sages and awakened people have known that the solution to our suffering is learning how to witness and detach ourselves from our thoughts.
Pretty much. I can attest to this. It sort of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. But the same can be said for the opposite, that's how I choose to live, now anyhow.
shareMaybe you can't help it?
shareSo all of the people who've been hit by the HURRICANES, and the FLOODS, and the FIRES, etc. are responsible for it due to the way they all were thinking too NEGATIVELY???
🧐
I mean that has nothing to do with what I said, but hey, you do you Mr fearmonger.
shareWhat was said wasn't meant to spread FEAR. On the contrary, it was meant to do away with it by POINTING OUT how ABSURD it can be to assume that there's a connection between what we THINK and what happens to us.
Because most of us OBVIOUSLY DO NOT have anything to do with it whenever HURRICANES, FLOODS, FIRES, etc. end up Hitting our areas.
Right???
Thus the reason why it also isn't LOGICAL to assume that's the case.
I actually wasn't referring to your hurricane statement when I said fearmonger. I just know your schtick by now. Holier than thou bullshit. Covid update this, covid update that. I understood you better when I thought you were a bot. Now I know you're a human you're just annoying.
shareYou seem CONFUSED:
Here's the TOPIC:
If you constantly think negative thoughts or negative outcomes, are you ultimately just wishing bad luck on yourself?
So if we follow this kind of LOGIC that would mean anyone who has THE BAD LUCK to get HIT by a HURRICANE would be responsible for it due to having thought NEGATIVE THOUGHTS.
And that's also NOT LOGICAL, or REASONABLE, or RATIONAL, which is also the reason why one said it's ABSURD to think that way.
But instead of being willing to ADMIT this, you try to CHANGE the TOPIC, by trying to make ME the TOPIC ... ONCE AGAIN???
JOI is/was a HOLOGRAM (not a BOT).
🙄
No, you're wrong. I never said that when bad things happen it is always a result of negative thinking. I just reasoned that no good comes from negative thinking, well mostly.
You just like to piggyback on any current disaster to find self validation. Which is the only validation you'll get.
I just reasoned that no good comes from negative thinking, well mostly.
I just don't believe in absolutes. I'm sure there has been, on times, an occasion where negative thinking actually solved a problem. It's just no way to go about life though. I'm a beer half full, silver lining type guy. And believe me, I have no reason to be. I just find dwelling on the negative to be detrimental to a good time. I mean I'm not reinventing the wheel here. The only sage advice Ive given in real life was a reorganisatioal tip for a friend's spice rack.
shareAgain, not what I meant.
shareSOMEONE HAS BEEN READING THE SECRET....HULK HOGAN DIGS ON THAT TOO.
shareNo. A wish does not make something come into existence.
I’m not specifically talking about wishes.
shareI just find it funny when those terms creep in when they shouldn't.
Anyway, I know what you mean, but you leave out a subset when you don't speak of action. I've known a few "always positive", "don't worry, be happy" types, but some of them use it as a crutch for never evaluating the action or inaction that actually invited the trouble -- or worse, they don't worry, or they're never down, b/c someone else fixes things for them. There are plenty of smiling, always happy, fuck ups who depend on others to help them out of their latest pickle. They don't worry -- but someone did, took action, and saved the day.
‘Happy clappers’ are odd.
shareIt's not only among the religious. Some are just waiting for dad, mom, big bro, big sis, in any form to clean up the mess or give them what they need. They let others worry about the reality of potential negative outcomes for them. Blissfully ignorant dependents. Plenty of those around.
shareI'm not much acquainted with these types of people but if you say there are plenty around I will take your word for it.
shareI don't think that's what Andy is taking about - I know I'm not. It's not necessarily about always being happy either.
To me, it's about figuring out how to overcome obstacles and problems that come your way. Too many people think they can't achieve certain goals when in reality they really don't want to do what is necessary to achieve them. Worse yet, many people don't have any goals - but they are jealous of those who have figured it out. They are the unhappy and negative ones.
I understand having an outlook where negatives are not irrationally accentuated.
And I understand the difference between "I can't." and "I won't." I was just adding my own point. Some folks do the opposite of what Andy describes. They're always positive, never look at the downside (b/c the reality scares them), and skip along a tightrope while crossing fingers that there's a net (meaning others) to catch them from crashing to that ground they won't dare look down at. What is their positive outlook inviting? I'd say those would be better served looking at possible negative outcomes for approaching things that way. So, Pollyanna is just as irrational as Debbie Downer. In everything, reality calls the shots, whether you like it or not.
Pollyanna is just as irrational as Debbie Downer. In everything, reality calls the shots, whether you like it or not.
One problem I see with this is people aren't always in control over their own nature's. I don't think people choose to be fearful or negative. It's either how they were brought up or it's inherent in their psychological makeup.
My favorite example is how siblings often have dramatically different attitudes from one another, and there isn't any obvious reason.
Usually siblings are different because they try to find other ways to get the ATTENTION of their parents.
So if their sibling is good at something, then they'll try to do something else different in hopes that their parents will notice and appreciate their effort. One also sees the same kind of a thing happening in the situation between CAIN and ABLE in the book of GENESIS.
And yes people who are BI POLOR, or have MANIC and/or DEPRESSIVE personalities that they're born with, are also controlled by the CHEMICAL reactions in their bodies that also tend to be INHERITED.