Look it up. How stupid are we going to look if it turns out to be completely ineffective in mitigating the spread. Bunch of goofballs walking around with bandanas on for 6 months.
Sure it would make sense but let’s follow the science here. Starting to look like a tin foil hat.
Since they say that it gets into your system via mouth, nose, and eyes, then we are leaving ourselves severely vulnerable! OUR EYES!
It should be the planet's duty to reduce their vulnerability to this flu-level killer by 50% by wearing an eye patch. Mandatory eye patches now! If you won't wear an eye patch then you are trying to kill your fellow man.
I went to the dentist last week and they put protective glasses on me.
share
Probably because they're afraid of being vilified by Leftist Fascists for not towing the party line.
😎
I don't agree. Without masks the cases could have been double. even 10 years ago in when I was in Asia people wore masks to avoid even getting the flu which sucks (and kills), or to avoid the pollution in the air.
shareWhat about 50 years ago during Woodstock and the pandemic that was going on?
shareThe last pandemic was over a hundred years ago. Spanish flu and it killed a hundred fifty million people, despite not having social Mobility and despite having a much less population
shareWhere were WHO at the time?!
shareHong Kong Flu (H3N2) 1968-1969. It killed over a million people.
Meanwhile: "hey, let's go roll in the mud at Woodstock!"
Note what people remember or are even aware of.
Bingo 👆
shareIn the fall of 1910, a pneumonic plague which originated in Russian Siberia broke out in Harbin, the northeastern region of China. The epidemic spread so quickly that within four months, it claimed 60,000 lives.
...
Dr Gerald Mesny, a prominent French doctor, was one of those who doubted Dr Wu's views. Dr Mesny himself died of pneumonic plague several days later, after refusing to wear a mask, succumbing to the epidemic infection. His death shocked the international community then.
LOL Right after he refused to wear a mask, he died of it! See: correlation vs causation
A mask is fine. The psychological help is real. It is good for those who already have the virus to keep their gobs from splattering around (a little, but not much). So sure, it is a sliver of help and placebo is a great help. Welcome to your new home, Planet Placebo. Power seized is never let go.
Bow down to the new c.y.o.a. technocracy.
Unlike the debate over whether the general public should wear masks, the absolute necessity of personal protective equipment is hardly disputed for medical personnel caring for patients with infectious diseases. To my surprise, during this pandemic, doctors and nurses in some places still have to protest in front of their workplace to get PPE. Are their supervisors some idiots or some arrogant bastard who have no respect for other people's lives? I don't know, but my message to those supervisors is "please lick your finger while counting your dollar bill, allegedly it will boost your immune system."
shareI can agree with this.
Story time: The very first weekend into the mass toilet-paper-grabbing panic, my father had a stroke (he is OK now). So I had to drive to the emergency room to take care of business. No one really knew what was what yet. The emergency room was empty and they took me through a few closed areas before allowing me to see him or even take care of arrangements/signatures etc. Security and first stage of people I encountered were all masked. Most of the nurses in the hospital were without masks and pretty casual about distance. It was quiet. It was not overrun. Three empty rooms per one occupied. The day before this I heard that they were creating a medical bivouac at a local fair ground to help the overflowing hospital. It didn't all add up. But I will say that even though the nurses looked calm and nonchalant, it could be that they would have loved a mask if it were available. I don't know if they lacked them due to supply or if they were not worried.
So yeah, mask up our medical employees*. They need it.
*not showing greater rates of infection, fyi
I am glad that your father has recovered from the stroke. I find good news like this always encouraging during this time when I can't stop worrying about my parent and other elder relatives.
shareOne thing I notice is people seem to think PPE grows on trees and cost and availability isn't a consideration.
How much PPE is available to everyone who needs it? It's a finite amount, and to produce more, in especially a short time, costs money. It just isn't that simple to declare everyone should suddenly have PPE while still functioning as necessary.
Money is of no importance, only life is important. You won’t tell frontline soldiers that ammunition won’t grow on trees and cost and availability are a consideration, would you?
“The Strategic National Stockpile (SNS) holds thousands of deployable face masks, N95 respirators, gloves, and surgical gowns that could be deployed if state and local supplies are diminished due to the current COVID-19 response and commercial supplies are exhausted.”
（source: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/congressional-testimony/hearing-emerging-disease-threat-how-us-responding-covid-19-novel-coronavirus-03032020)
"US edits National Stockpile website after Kushner claims it’s not for states"
(source: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/us-edits-national-stockpile-website-after-kushner-claims-its-not-for-states)
This thread is the reason why it's hard to get a health message out to people and have them follow it.
shareIf it’s proven why isn’t there proof?
shareScience works on evidence, not proof. Proof is in the realm of mathematics. There's enough evidence to support that wearing masks limit novel coronavirus transmission.
shareDon’t waste your time. This post is just head-in-the-sand sea lioning. I posted some “proof”, aka evidence but heard 🦗🦗🦗
Once you grasp that this is a new, never-seen-before virus, then you can understand that info will at first not exist, then info from early studies will come out, then that info will be proven or disproven by subsequent studies. Anyone with a decent high school science education is at the very least aware of this process.
While this is true, it does not follow that wild speculation is a responsible tactic. Guessing that 2.2 million people will die had a shockwave with grave consequences. In this era of cancel culture, everyone wants to cover their own ass. No one wants to be the one who underestimated the BIG VIRUS. So they went big. So big that they fucked the integrity of the ship. So our economy takes on more water than it can hold and we treat a virus that is perhaps 2xworse than regular annual flu like it is explosive ebola. Yes we adjust our view and approach after we gather data. The key to doing that correctly is "AFTER." They were shooting first and asking questions later. Then the next shot would be speculative instead of based on what we knew so far. The whole ordeal has shaken my respect for the medical field. Then we find out we can't even trust the W.H.O.
I don't think the masks are a mistake but I do think that they are a major overestimation of effectiveness. We shouldn't need them soon.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
-Charles Bukowski
Again, as "WHO (809)" said we are in new territory. The previous experience we had in dealing with this kind of epidemic was a century ago. It's safe to assume that none of the people who were involved in the original spanish flu are alive today.
"If there was any doubt that the new coronavirus isn't just "a bad flu," a new paper lays that myth to rest. The study authors found that in the U.S. there were 20 times more deaths per week from COVID-19 than from the flu in the deadliest week of an average influenza season."
https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-deaths-vs-flu-deaths.html
Scientists working on the problem deal with data, but they share their results with politicians who deal with votes. Us humans have a tremendous ability of compartmentalising stuff which don't impact us directly. So, the end result was always going to be an unhappy exercise with politicians relying on the short term memory of people.
https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU%3Aen
This isn't close to Spanish flu. This is much closer to the pandemics of 1969 and 1957 (iirc). and those two, like this one are close to being about twice the deaths of a bad (as opposed to "the average") flu season. The usual suspects. Some paper "laying it to rest" could easily be the next for-sure-thing that gets walked back.
It is like we are dynamiting the dam to deluge the town when only 4 houses are on fire. And all because no one wants to be the person who didn't "do everything they could" to stop this if it ends up burning the whole town down. Within this analogy I want there to be concordant efforts to the problem as it is identified. Like sending 5 fire engines just in case there is a 5th house on fire instead of wiping out the whole town with a flood before you even know how many fires.
Do we know everything about this new virus? No. Should we be careful? Yes. That 2nd answer does not license unlimited power over unspecified stretches of time. How will you feel about mandatory masks still being in effect by penalty of fine in a year? Two? Do you think that the lockdown needed to be for 3 months? The need for curve flattening was seen and addressed in very localized areas. It went way beyond that everywhere else.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/10/world/coronavirus-history.html
https://i.insider.com/5e84fc4092e1917e855418a1?width=1100&format=jpeg&auto=webp
World population 2020 - 7,794,798,739
World population 1918 - 1927 2,000,000,000
We live in a very different world than a century before. it's a more global economy. So, the mortality of COVID-19 cannot be predicted accurately. For comparison, in 4 decades of my life, I have lived and worked on 3 different continents. My grandfather didn't even venture out of the state where he was born.
Please stop comparing this virus with the flu. It's not the same, not even close even to the worst flu season. The closest comparison would be to malaria. The flu is pretty much common the world over with most countries having different strains of the virus. But, how many times have people worn masks? Did anyone self-isolate or quarantine? Was there a lock-down? Were restaurants closed? Did people start working from home during any of the flu seasons?
So, the total world mortality rate for any give flu season is with the virus being given a free reign. With current world death rates from COVID-19 greater than half a million in just under 5 months and that too with all the lock-downs and travel restrictions and economic disruptions, we cannot even imagine what would happen if the novel coronavirus was given a free reign to infect all 8 billion world population just like a regular flu. It would have been disastrous. And don't forget that we are still in the beginning stages of this epidemic. The virus is expected to be with us till 2021-22. So, the virus still has a lot of damage to do.
Also, people who recover from the flu, they can get back to work. That's not case with this virus. A significant number of people sustain severe chronic issues and lung scarring which will last them for the rest of their life. And this has been observed in healthy people in their twenties too, not just old people.
Most developed countries blundered with their initial response. That's when everything went downhill. If people were isolated and quarantined and adequate measures taken to stop the spread of the virus, then the lock-downs could have been handled much better. Instead of the entire country only affected regions would have needed to be locked down.
This extended period of lock down and panic is because of those days of initial blunder. To compare, checkout the results of South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, Germany etc. They went in quick with strict measures and managed to isolate the "spreaders" so that it can be handled effectively.
That's the thing with doomsayers. They are always right. "We must do these things or there will be disatser" Then if the numbers are low, they are right. And if the numbers are high then "You didn't do enough, like I kept telling you!"
No one cares that the numbers are being over reported. Are some people getting fucked up by this? Yes, of course. Are people people cooking the numbers for profit and power? You bet. Reports of it abound (and often censored ... hmmm). I am filled with distrust when organizations like the WHO are revealed to be political puppets.
There you go letting your imagination run wild again. Where did you hear of this doomsday scenario? Did you hear it from any of the health officials?
The predictions the health authorities made were based on what was known about the virus at a particular time and that information is dynamic. The predictions are based on a number of inputs and the corresponding outcomes are categorized as worst, normal or ideal (best) case scenarios. All the inputs are live inputs, which means they sometimes change on a daily basis. The most important input factor in the modelling is people. USA has had the worst reaction as far as people (and the leadership) is concerned. Is it any surprising the final results skewed towards the worst case scenario as far as the modelling is concerned?
The claims of over-reporting is propaganda that has originated only from one section of media and politicians and as usual with zero evidence. On the contrary, the number of deaths and cases of infection are under-reported by as much as 50% and it is norm across most nations where the handling of this pandemic has been incompetent and inefficient.
As far as WHO is concerned, it is as political as the CDC, which means it has no teeth. It depends on information reported to it from nation states. It cannot force even the weakest nation to furnish anything that they don't want to. It's not surprising that the countries who had the most inept response to the pandemic is trying to paint WHO as political.
WHO declared coronavirus as a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on 30th January 2020. The President of USA was in denial till mid-March claiming it was a hoax.
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/27-04-2020-who-timeline---covid-19
Wow.
That's how it SHOULD have happened but they made wild guess and then lowered them after the information would invalidate their predictions. Then they'd way over guess again. So yeah, science it adjusting you paradigm based on information ... not getting busted for wild over reaching stabs at prophesy.
The over reporting has been documented. Hospitals get money for every Corona case they get. By recommendation of the CDC, they are reporting any and all deaths that are respiratory in nature as Covid. If a person dies in a car accident but their body tests positive for Covid then that one gets counted too. The list goes on. It is shameful.
The WHO supported every lie China told. We may as well stop talking about them nor referencing the WHO at all.
The president declared an early block on flights from China since he was warning of the danger. This made the Democrats call him a racist and call for people to "come on down and shop in China Town!." Say what you will about him but he beat his opponents to the Wuhan panic and now they, as usual, try to ret-con the narrative. He responded with flight blocks. His enemies responded with labels and pork-barrel blockades to relief.
The only thing missing from your reply was facts. Rest is all good.
shareThe high end estimates were projections based on “if we do nothing”. However, the shutdowns, the distancing, even the masks helped slow the spread or at least pace out the rate of infection. The slowing prevented massive overcrowding at hospitals where people were dying in hallways in Italy and Iran.
I highly recommend watching the latest episode of PBS Frontline called “The Virus: What Went Wrong?” It looks at various countries and shows what some did right (South Korea) and what others did wrong (Italy, Iran).
Does it show all the efforts to alleviate the pressure on so called highly impacted hospitals that ended up empty? Did it cover the fact that Japan merely recommended that its populace avoid crowds and contact without scuttling its own economy and has basically the same numbers as us? Did it discuss how places like Italy, Iran, and NY had reduced their number of hospitals in the years previous to the outbreak?
I don't dispute that masks have an impact. I dispute the degree of impact and the general erosion of freedom authorized by overreation, hype, and CYOA paranoia.
I don’t see masks being overhyped. They reduce spread of the virus, period. I see no erosion of freedom. That notion is where overhype is happening. People just get their back up when they are told what to do. There were a group of guys who used to walk around San Francisco bare naked, not a stitch. Who wants to sit in a chair after one of these guys sat there? Same now with masks. Who wants to sit next to someone on an airplane who is ejecting droplets all around him?
shareThat's a fair point but when does it end? Would it be OK with you if it was permanent?
shareIt ends or scales back when the outbreak subsides, meaning there are no new daily cases, or when there is a vaccine.
shareHope you are right. Many seasonal maladies are without remedy nor vaccine. We live with them. I think there is a very high % chance that the mask rules will endure among other rules.
Wear an eye patch or you are being irresponsible.
CYOA = corona you over assumptions?
shareBecause the countries that are having better outcomes with Covid19 are the ones where it’s not seen as unusual or out of place to wear face mask.
shareYup. Here in Singapore we have been wearing masks since early in the year and have only had 26 deaths. Frankly anyone who is not wearing a mask when they are out and out hasn’t been paying close enough attention to what’s going on in the world.
share75 % effectiveness.
They put Covid infected rats in a cage, an non Covid infected rats in another.
Scientist then placed a fan blowing from the infected to the non infected rats.
Scientist did this numerous times and found that by simply putting a tea cloth between the two cages, stopped transmission 75%
(The Economist 2020)
Alot of shit on the internet, stick with what winners like me read....The Economist
Was the tea cloth loosely ruberbanded over an opening with gaps on both sides? Or was it a seal? What outcome were the """scientists""" looking for?
The coverage of the next flu will be brutal. Daily death count etc.
The article did not go into the fine details.
The CDC does recommend masks
I'm an Atlantic person myself. The Economist is too much too soon, for my taste. I can't spend this much mental time every week on such a broad spectrum of world events.
But I trust both as being great arbiters for the Truth.
👍 yes I subscribe to that also.
The Economist is densely packed, and to be honest some of the financial section is over my head, but there is no better magazine to explain to person how the world works. So many people are confused on this today, with a seemingly unlimited amount of dark alleys on the internet to go down.