So these were announced yesterday as part of phase 4 of the MCU:
"Black Widow" - May 1, 2020
"Eternals" - Nov 6, 2020
"Falcon & The Winter Soldier" - Fall 2020
"Shang Chi" - Feb 12, 2021
"Wanda Vision" - Spring 2021
"Loki" - Spring 2021
"Doctor Strange 2" - May 7, 2021
"What If..." -Summer 2021
"Hawkeye" - Fall 2021
"Thor 4" - Nov 5, 2021
"Blade" - TBD
(Others were mentioned without dates.)
It was ridiculous before but this is just flat-out absurdity. The oversaturation of superhero and its sad attempt to put them into phases is a detriment to the film industry. If one movie fails, the studio doesn't worry because they have another film coming out in a few months and everyone will forget about it. Disney will never take a chance with directors like Paul Thomas Anderson, Peter Weir or Cameron Crowe and finance good, original non-superhero content.
They just go for the superhero and big budget content because they know it will break bank. This is the equivalent of when you have to write an essay about a life changing event and you write about someone you know who died because you know it's a topic that will give you an easy A. Take chances, Disney. There are many people out there who have original ideas who are waiting for the chance.
I agree. At some point the pendulum has to swing, and hopefully there are still independent movies being financed. I don't give them my $$ unless it happens to be on TV and I'm in the mood.
Funny how people complain how there isn't enough diversity in Hollywood but then they keep greenlighting the same kind of movie and no one calls them out because it's not a race issue.
I liked the first Superman (1978) because I saw it when it first came out and was maybe the first big-budget superhero movie. I think I liked the next two as well.
Disney will never take a chance with directors like Paul Thomas Anderson, Peter Weir or Cameron Crowe and finance good, original non-superhero content.
It's studios like Marvel that make it more difficult to allow Hollywood to try other projects. Look at the top 20 highest-grossing films. They're almost entirely remakes and sequels.
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Marvel isnt making it difficult. It's the approach that everyone else is trying to emulate -- b/c it works. Play it safe with pre-sold stuff like remakes, sequels and movies based on TV shows, toys, games and pop novels.
Even worse, they make audiences scared to take chances on seeing anything without a brand name attached to it. In the old days, movies made their dime based on genuine audience engagement.
Nowadays, movies make profits based solely on brand recognizability. All the smart, challenging films get ignored until Netflix. While *Marvel fight movie #25* reaps all the cash. Fuck Hollywood.
Exactly. That's exactly my point. If the mass audience wants the dumbest movie possible, have respect for your own product and don't just do it because people are dumb enough to want mediocre stuff.
Indie films don't get the same advertising and exposure as superhero movies which ultimately sell themselves. It doesn't matter who is going to be the new Hulk, people will go because it's Hulk and the Marvel name is attached to it. Just because the audience gave a movie money, that doesn't mean they have to greenlight 20 new projects immediately and releases them in phases.
They go b/c they went and enjoyed the prior movies. They anticipate them before the advertising even begins. Everyone whines about RT scores and their effect -- but then some small film gets great scores -- yet people still dont go. Why? B/c the audience plays it safe as well. They know what they're getting with those other films. TLK got mediocre reviews that expressed the same safe approach -- yet it killed this weekend. Everyone knew what they were getting: The same movie but with the latest fx. When the audience demands something different, things will change.
I disagree for a few reasons. First: the amount of money that a film makes doesn't translate to the amount of people who went to go see it. In the case of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, fans go to see the film multiple times. Nobody says that they saw "The King's Speech" 7 times and "Iron Man 2" only once in theatre. Comic book fans will spend every penny to watch their favourite comic book hero multiple times.
Second: the issue with what Disney is doing with these sequels and remakes and buying other companies is that they don't care about merit. The audience will go anyway no matter how big of a pile of garbage their films are. Then when another franchise becomes popular, Disney goes ahead and buys it.
Third: Disney owns Rotten Tomatoes so I can't really take their reviews seriously.
Fourth: We often hear about how Hollywood is losing money but Disney movies keep breaking records. There is obviously something wrong there.
Fifth: 3D. Pretty much any Marvel movie can be released in 3D. No one would care about a Scorsese movie being in 3D, just look at Hugo.
Sixth: re-releases. So many times when a sequel is about to come out, they re-release the previous film a few weeks in advance to gouge more money.
Seventh: we don't know how many people aren't showing up to the theatre because there isn't enough variety and they don't want to see a Marvel movie.
First: So you think they should stop making movies that some portion of the audience pays to see more than once? Even if every one of them were limited to only one paid viewing, the final BO would still blow away the small, chance taking film.
Second: Exactly, the AUDIENCE goes anyway. Why? B/c the AUDIENCE doesnt care about merit either. They like the familiar, the safe. They fall asleep at the idea of The King's Speech. Disney isnt forcing it down their throats. They learned to give the people what they want. You are in the minority. They dont throw gobs of money behind movies to capture the minority. The movies are a reflection of the market. Blame the market for not wanting something different.
Third: I was talking about critical reviews before the movie opens. TLK and Aladdin received mediocre critical reviews -- but people came in droves anyway. Some small film gets great critical reviews -- but people still stay home. The familiar, pre-sold material still wins over taking a chance on the new despite the reviews.
Fourth: You have it backwards. The pre-sold approach is a reaction to the AUDIENCE not going to the theater as much as in the past. The only thing that brings people out with consistency are films like those you're complaining about. It's not killing Hollywood; it's the only thing keeping see-it-in-the-theater afloat
Fifth: Except critics, no one cared about Hugo at all. It wasnt the 3d. It didnt connect with the majority. That's exactly the type of film that they're reluctant to take a chance on now. Why? B/c it bombed! Again, you're complaining that they tailor to the market more than ever. Why? Hugo didnt matter b/c despite the quality, it didnt lend itself to the big screen like these other pics in 3d or IMAX. Again, the audience has spoken. They dont force it upon the masses; they cater to them
Sixth: Same idea. Re-release WORKS. The audience isnt gouged. They CHOOSE to come out. They would rather watch those films twice than take a chance.
Seventh: They do know. They know all too well. The spend a lot of money gauging preferences and who's showing up and why. They know people have more alternatives to going out to the theater than ever. People have access to a world of media in their pockets at all times. These pre-sold tentpoles are the only thing that energizes them enough to get up and go out to the theater. When/if people stop coming out for these films, things will change. But dont hold your breath. Most are not nearly as discriminating as you'd like them to be.
I want to apologize if these are too long. I try my best to shorten them.
1. That was my response because earlier you wrote "If most didnt prefer these movies, they wouldnt exist" implying as if it's what most people wanted. The only way to determine that is by box office success. Which, as I said, is deceiving because people see the movie multiple times.
2. I agree. But that's my point. It's oversaturation to the point where the film studios don't care about the end product as long as it makes money.
3. Smaller films often don't get released in the same amount of screens as bigger budget movies.
4. Disney had to intention to even attempt to try some original smaller budget films. They even shut down Fox 2000 as soon as they bought it: https://www.screengeek.net/2019/03/22/disney-fox-2000-shut-down/ Now they're not even allowing people to see a smaller budget films because they're buying it just to get rid of it.
5. That's my point. Why didn't people go to see it? There was a legendary director and Chloe Moretx was a big enough name as well as some other decent stars.
6. It's gouging when you're asking for the same price on the movie ticket as it was when it was first released. If the people want it, then that means there is no such thing as gouging unless you're lying about the product.
7. When we go to a theatre that has 10 screens and a big company's film is playing in 9 of them, a smaller company is going to have a tough time trying to compete with the amount of screens simply because they can't afford it.
It all boils down to the same thing. The masses want this. It's a reaction rather some weird artistic choice by certain studios to shove a certain content down throats. These films check the boxes that lead to $$$. The exhibitors want those 9 screens showing the same movie b/c that's what fills the seats. Buying tickets to the films you'd prefer to see more of is the only path to change. Disney would make a bunch of those if the public wanted them. The simple fact is that they dont want them. You're in the minority. The minority gets 1 screen while the majority gets 9 screens. It reflects audience preference.
And it's not gouging when you dont have to buy a ticket. You're pretending that it's a need rather than something someone could easily go with out. They want to go again. They choose to pay the freight again rather than using that money to see something else. Gouging is when you jack up the price of something that everyone needs. It's not when you keep the price the same and people freely choose to buy again b/c they like it so much.
Yeah but as I said, the bigger companies can afford to have 9 screens. Studios make a licensing agreement with a distribution company. From there, the distribution company comes to a decision of how many prints need to be released. Money is definitely a factor in the process.
Gouging doesn't have to be a necessity. Gouging is: "To remove something from something else by scraping or scooping." httpss://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/gouges So in this context, Disney is releasing an excessive amount of films and creating a Marvel Cinematic Universe so they can milk as much money as they can from its audience, which is also why they re-release films and people pay the same price as its original run.
to engage in swindling, overcharging, or the like:
using your logic, if I buy a vanilla ice cream cone, love it, then go back for another one, it should be reduced in price the 2nd time or else it's gouging??
Charging the SAME for a 2nd viewing isnt OVERcharging. People are freely going to see the same film a 2nd time for the same price. That's in no way gouging.
There is a difference between watching something twice on a release and then watching it again on a re-release. Would you pay $80 for for the exact same Super Mario Bros. game from the 80s if it were re-released on a new console today? You can't compare food to media. Would you pay full price to watch Citizen Kane in theatre? It's like what Disney does when they put movies "in the vault". They re-release it when they want and charge the exact same amount as if it's a brand new movie (special features notwithstanding). My point is that when a film is being re-released and you are asking for the same amount as the first time around, it's gouging. And again, gouging doesn't only mean that's it's overpriced.
No, it isnt. And you were talking only about the same price being overpricing the 2nd time. You're just expanding to this scraping/scooping stuff after the fact. And what excludes an indulgence food or any other item or service? As you can see from the actual definition applied to pricing, there is no exclusion as to type. It's ANY overcharging for ANYthing. It's not narrowed to only the things you wanna bring up.
And people do go see old classic movie re-releases. They choose to pay the price b/c they cant replicate the experience of a theater and big screen. It's nostalgia. A small portion of the market choose to indulge in such things -- so, there it is; Fathom Events/TCM does it every year.
But instead of getting lost in these weeds. Let's get back to the real point. It's the market. It's the audience. Disney isnt scheming to force a certain content to the masses. They've responded to the marketplace. You're attacking them for serving what the vast majority prefer. Go after your family and friends who wont bother with the next indie film. It's not Disney's fault that people prefer these films. Disney doesnt care. They'd produce silent movies right now if the masses wanted those. You're focused on the wrong end of the equation. Buy a ticket to a small film, drag some people with you. If the marketplace changes, Disney and all the rest will react. But the other films are what bring people to the theater now. That's just the way it is. Disney just delivers what people want. If it were as you prefer from the studio down, the theater business would have already gone under. People have Netflix. They stay home. They dont bother. Even with colossal Disney tentpoles this year, revenue is still down 10% from last year. Less and less tix are being sold. No one cares about the other films. That's why no one cares about awards season. They can consume enough other options without moving anything but their fingers. Times have changed. Simple fact.
Disney isnt scheming to force a certain content to the masses. They've responded to the marketplace.
But they are scheming. I gave you the link of how Disney bought Fox but purposely closed Fox 2000 immediately after. Why buy it if they're going to close it? Just don't buy it and let other people take control of it. And it's different between food and media because there are already examples of it. If you own an XBox and they add an old game to the store, the price is significantly lower than it's original price. Gouging doesn't only mean it's by force. If I gave you permission to gouge my eye out and you do it, you're still gouging my eye. Gouging is like scraping and scooping. They're trying everything they can to make money because they know people are buying it no matter how bad the product is and how ridiculous they become. They're scraping the bottom of the barrel.
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I said scheming to force, not "scheming" --ie, doing the best to make money, like a business -- in the entertainment business -- where you give people more of want they want, and less of what they dont. They have an undeniably successful model. You keep running away from the unquestionable preference of the masses. You want them to serve you, the shrinking minority. Doing that has been a losing proposition for a long, long time. Disney didnt twist any arms. They, and others, who you dont mention for some reason, have realized that pre-sold is the way to go. The interesting, chance-taking films dont draw. Studios are reluctant to take chances b/c the audience is reluctant to take chances. Simple fact. You look right past the audience and blame the content providers. You have it backward. They spend gobs of money trying to identify what people want. They have it clocked right now but you're pretending they just made it up to crush you and other small film fans. It's the movie-going public that calls the shots. The vast majority of people want the familiar, the same, rather than the edgy and original. Disney delivers. It's that simple. Why bother with the others when those people dont go. You're skipping the most obvious fact b/c it doesnt gel with your personal tastes. They dont care about you, me and the rest of the 5%. They care about retaining the 95%, as any smart business would. It's never been harder to get people to come out (another fact you keep skipping over). If they're coming, you keep them coming. If another Avengers film wasnt playing but some film that you'd prefer were playing, the 95% stay home. They dont change their mind and go out to see Tolkien or The Aftermath (both from Fox Searchlight). They watch something on Netflix that they've seen a few dozen times before. Only big and pre-sold bring em out. They didnt make that up. They just realized it and served the market.
Well, I would consider buying a portion of a company just so they can close it down as scheming by force. It's almost like getting rid of it because they don't like the very fact they exist. Don't get me wrong, I'm putting blame on the stupid audience too for falling for it .
I think you're way too high on Fox 2000. They're not like Searchlight. They've served up a lot of mediocre midrange movies. I'd sooner watch a Marvel or Pixar movie than the bulk of Fox 2000's offerings over the years. And you're pretending that Disney reorganized to deprive the audience rather than a larger goal to serve it with what works best. They doubled their number of film units with the Fox acquisition. There's overlap, so some consolidation was inevitable -- as with any takeover.
But I question why they even bought it as part of the deal if that was their plan. Maybe they only wanted the profits from the movies that were already made and didn't want to bother doing lower budget films.
Mid-budget is actually a worse proposition than low budget, indie films. It's the weakest category. And Fox 2000 wasnt killing it there. No one does any longer. You go epic, tentpole, more-is-better -- or you go low budget where the risk much less. Midrange is more expensive but with the small return of a low budget indie. I read that it's harder to get financing for that category than the other two. Blumhouse is killing it by keeping budgets extremely low. Marvel is killing it with huge budgets. The middle is becoming extinct b/c the track record of success stinks. And Disney already has units to do these things. The smaller end will go to Searchlight. The bigger stuff will go to 20th Century Fox. The middle will vanish b/c audiences dont push them into the black with consistency.
re: paying full price to see re-released films - not only would people pay full price to see old movies, they do pay full price to see them. i've seen re-releases of 2001, planet of the apes, the birds, spirited away, some like it hot, alien, howl's moving castle & a few other studio ghibli films in the past few years & paid full ticket price.
i'm not sure why you would expect screenings of older films to be discounted. if anything, given they have likely smaller, perhaps niche markets in some cases, you could argue the audience could be charged a premium.
ok, but that's different from buying a ticket to see a film screened in a theatre. i was responding to the following comment you made:
Would you pay full price to watch Citizen Kane in theatre?
i would & have paid full price to see old movies in the theatre.
when 2001 was screened last year, i went to see it three times in our liemax theatre. paid $18 each time if i remember correctly.
that's a recognition that there's something unique in the theatre experience, i believe.
if there are two releases of a film on physical media with different prices but the same content, you'd obviously buy the cheaper option. doing otherwise would just be silly. but i don't think that's what we were discussing.
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These are ticket prices for seeing old films on the big screen again. Most people are too young to have seen these classics in a theater in the original format. So, they pay a premium for a chance to do it today. Like I said, and the other poster confirmed, there's a bunch of them re-released for a limited time every year.
I love them but you are not alone in disliking them...many of the regs here don't enjoy The Cape movies in the least
I value them and love them for the pure spectacle...sometimes real life is dramatic and hard enough that spending two hours watching robots and guys in funny outfits beat the hell out of each other is a fine distraction
Maybe I'm a big dummy (lots will tell you I am) but escapist nonsense is great fun
Bring on ALL of these movies and shows and I'll watch them
It's not that I hate comic book or superhero movies, it's just that there are too many of them. Why not release one or two a year? Disney has this elaborate plan on rolling three or four a year and trying to tie them into other movies and then rebooting other ones. It gets annoying.
Maybe I'm a big dummy (lots will tell you I am) but escapist nonsense is great fun
Bring on ALL of these movies and shows and I'll watch them
Pretty much how I feel. If I didn't like them I simply wouldn't watch them but either way it's Disney's empire and they can run it as they see fit. There are plenty of other movies out there for people that prefer other stuff.
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Of those upcoming films the only ones that I have a slight interest in seeing are Black Widow and maybe What If (which I'm hoping is going to be the alternative history take on the classic characters). Even so, I probably won't see them in a theater but download them or wait until they come out on disc.
There is a huge market for this crap because it is simple entertainment. At the end of the day, most people are stupid and don't want to challenge themselves intellectually.