Another incredibly frustrating fact of life is that we live in a kind of world where we can't even all agree on what is right and what is wrong, and even if we do agree that something is so terrible and destructive (besides murder of the innocents of course), we still tend to debate endlessly on what type of punishments should suit the perpetrator.
And while one group of people believes that they should get the harshest punishment possible, others debate whether or not the person should even be punished by being put to prison in the first place, including how much sentence they should get, would it be right, do they deserve it, will it solve the actual problem at hand, etc and same or similar (besides some utterly unfathomable uncivilized places out there) debates exist on victim's sufferings etc.
In the end who is right, and is it really all that shocking that society is often indifferent, like, maybe they just don't know how to help? And where do you stand on all of this and who influences you?
Granted, I'm totally against opposite extremes ala victim blaming and anything like that, but even good normal ordinary people are often way too powerless to help and affect the situations, and professionals often don't work in the ways they should and it seems like we will have to struggle with all of this for many more years to come, and no modern day digital age angry internet protests are sadly liable to help.
There are SOME middle grounds to all of this, like for instance, I heard MANY times, without spelling it out, MEN say that if a woman, who is attractive, managed to *insert terms of imagination*, and I don't mean kill them or anything like that, even if the law AND civilized society says otherwise, they'd have NO problem with it whatsoever, and they would carry on living as if nothing bad has ever happened, let alone start hating on the person or wishing to kill themselves etc, point is, we seem to have double standards not just in law and morals, but OURSELVE
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
S sometimes as well, except that, err, well, our granddads and grandmothers MAY think VERY differently, AND in the name of GOOD, they may not just WANT to talk to us about it in DETAILS, but they may briefly mention something that they mean.
And I hear about how throughout human history, yes, none of this is any new unfortunately, society and ordinary people in some or other ways often condemned those that were hurt rather than those that hurt others, and even refused to help those dying or affected by natural illnesses - was morality like 500 years ago just not all that developed in most of us, and I don't just mean Kings and rulers who executed people left, right and centre for simply not respecting their Holy principles, so called, I mean oh COME ON NOW!
If 500 years ago we as humans were generally BETTER, ie more empathetic culturally and collectively, would there be far less evil in the world today?
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
Some crimes are indeed worse than others, but imagine if we had no crime or bad acts at all? Regardless of from who they were coming from and at whom they were directed at?
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Popcorn Kernel (2368)
7 years ago
Punishment does not undo the damage and creates it's own set of problems. I think focusing too much on punishments is not very productive for a civil society. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. You ask a lot of questions but you aren't asking the right questions. In all your novel-length posts, you never mention prevention.
Just to take one example- the Las Vegas shooting. the perpetrator is dead already so punishment is moot. Even if he was still alive, chopping off his head would not really do much, it won't bring the innocent victims back and it won't prevent another mass shooting next week.
Why does this happen over and over and over and over again? Why does it keep happening here and not other places? What can we learn (if we are even capable of learning) to stop it from happening so much? Have we just become so numb that it seems like an acceptable cost?
Your ridiculous example of men saying that if an attractive woman raped them they would not mind... do you think this juvenile erotic fantasy is anything analogous to real rape? Victims do not get to choose their rapist, they do not get to choose an attractive rapist or dictate other conditions like it has to be the gender they are sexually oriented towards. Would these same men enjoy it if a man raped them? or if the woman was not attractive? Or if the woman gave them an incurable disease? Or if the woman raped their ass with an object? Of course not. They only think it would be 'no problem' IF it followed all of their sexual preferences. That's not rape, that is bdsm role playing. Please do not confuse these fantasies with what real rape victims go through. I can only think you are very young and inexperienced to make such a comparison.
COME ON NOW! yourself.
You also do not understand anything about history. I will bow out of this masturbatory discussion now. I hope you can start asking the right questions someday.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
What do I not understand about history? Wasn't there indeed a lot of killings of innocents and troubles and societal indifferences and whatnot?
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
And by the way, of course I do not confuse the real issue with any fantasies, I was just talking about, however rare those other examples are, cases where consent is not so clear and the fact that those people have spoken about it all in that sense, yes the majority of them are like that and it is of course horrible and wrong, plus those other examples also cause physical pain and damage and whatnot, and BDSM role playing involves consent and is not harmful or anything, and while I do consider those things terrible, I consider a lot of other forms of violence to be horrible and wrong and inacceptable too.
And again, what did I misunderstand about history, are you implying that in history, save for the powerful people in position of dictatorship, societies in general had morals too?
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
Plus think about for instance aspects like "statutory rape", where there is consent involved, but the person having sex with the subject is say 1 year below the age of consent, and in some cases, the "perpetrator" may be a woman who is attractive and whatnot and means no harm, but it is still considered wrong and even against the law and therefore a crime. (Ever seen "Notes on a Scandal" (2006) with Cate Blanchett?)
Besides, everyone is afraid of sexual offenders who are men and a lot of it also has to do with the fact that they are the ones who are physically stronger than women and also commit the offenses more and they have a penetrative organ as well, why do you think movies like "I Spit on Your Grave" are so popular?
So no of course one wouldn't like it and whatnot, but I was just explaining how in real life, besides the fact that problems of that and other sort exist, people sadly often think differently, stating it as a sad fact nonetheless. I again wasn't trying to be too provocative or controversial, and I think all forms of violence against people are wrong and should be treated seriously besides they mostly shouldn't happen in the first place.
But they did happen throughout thousands of years of whole human history and sadly still do.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
Keep also the fact in mind that in REAL LIFE, OF COURSE it is all different and worse than what you would have experience etc in either a fantasy of any kind or even a FICTIONAL MOVIE, then again, as I stated many times already, in real life, you are often unlikely to fight tons of bad guys on your own and come out victorious and even a hero, plus you may still get arrested for killing someone who tried to wrong you in some or other ways, and evil in real life is not just an entity that can get defeated and disappear forever and ever.
Point is - its a fact but HARDLY (unfortunately) a surprise of any kind. And I am no longer going to state it as if its a groundbreaking fact of the universe either.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
P.S. Originally this wasn't even THE main topic of THIS thread, rather, it was about humanity's evil and violence in general, but on the subject of men, even if it IS a fantasy and NOT "you know what", wanting to be ***** by women who are attractive, I was mostly talking about THEORETICAL double standards that some of those people happen to state, whereas OF COURSE the TRADITIONAL examples of it, and ones that you have mentioned, are indeed horrible and wrong, and are recognized as such by CIVILIZED people, even if our, however few, examples of condemnation of it isn't likely to make it go away.
I was also stating that women would NEVER state something like THIS even as an example of fantasy etc type of elements, because for ANY woman to have sex forced against her, even if its by her husband and whatnot whom she finds attractive and who had sex with her before (consensually, of course), it would be nothing short of a NIGHTMARE of the worst kind, and I'm fully aware why and I have no qualms about it, perpetrators of that crime should indeed be punished and condemned as seriously if not more so than other violent criminal offenders.
Plus, I would just like to state that in a totally different matter really, but men in general aren't rated on their looks to the degree that women are.
And I have seen in certain films that have portrayed that scenario, and it was that (there was no consent involbed), well, its just happened that most of those actresses didn't look bad at all, although it was still hurtful and wrong, but the point is, I've seen men in theory (this is an observation, not moral judgment) discuss those issues and they are generally met with different approach than those other traditional examples, and I have even seen discussions online around these things with many different people saying different things.
The point is, I wish that all human beings can at least GENERALLY agree and EQUALLY so on what is right and wrong and how such wrongs be judged, but
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
I guess that may indeed be TOO much to ask of our world that has plenty of DIFFERENT kinds of people with some people being less and others being MORE ignorant, some people less and others MORE empathetic, some people less EXPERIENCED, some less understanding, some inclined towards one point of view and some to another - and a lot of this is sadly in our nature as such.
By the way, I do agree with a lot of points made here and there , and I don't deny any harsh truths here or elsewhere, but sometimes, I get too tired thinking about this and analyzying possibilities of it all coming to an end.
And finally, no in no way is being a victim worse than a perpetrator, perpetrators of any bad deed are indeed to blame.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
In some countries, Holocaust Denial is punishable by prison sentence.
I agree of course that Holocaust has happened and it IS terrible no doubt, but as wrong as saying as something else it may be, do people really deserve to be jailed like that for that?
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
By the way Popcorn Kennell, I didn't offend you, did I, and are you alright? Cause I was looking at the issues of various kinds of violence and humanity's indifferences overall, and I don't think I was too inaccurate about history, was I?
Are you alright?
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Popcorn Kernel (2368)
7 years ago
STOP.
No matter how hard you try to backpedal, you just dig yourself in in deeper.
I should have looked at your posting history and your fascination with rape scenes in movies before I ever replied to you in a serious way.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
I do apologize for any inconvenience though. But are you alright?
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Popcorn Kernel (2368)
7 years ago
I am more alright than you will ever be. Please get real help, not the kind on a movie chat board.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
Actually, I have been in psychological therapy for a few years now, for different reasons though, and it was helpful.
Point is, I kinda felt you were a little angry and I didn't mean to me, and I am still a bit confused as to what you meant by me not knowing history, whereas everything I said about events that happened historically pretty much is true, hundreds of years ago there was indeed a lot of killing and societal prejudices and injustices happening on a grand scale to people who don't deserve it.
Also, I don't have any especial fascination with that anymore than I do with other forms of violence including murder, I just happened to discuss it more in ways that were open by other users.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
And even then, I meant no offense whatsoever to you or anyone.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
Most of my posting history just deals with violent films with controversial themes in them in general, and I had just about as much posting history in films featuring murder as I did in that theme, so I'm not "especially fixated" on anything, besides I just haven't even been around here that long and with enough time, I'll post about something else.
The main problem with me is is that I don't have ALL the answers to ALL of our world's troubles and I know sadly though full well that we can't cure them by action movie methods alone. And I don't sympathize with any offenders either.
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Popcorn Kernel (2368)
7 years ago
That is not the main problem with you. It's not even in the top 15 problems with you.
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
What is the main problem with me then? (I give up.)
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TheMan18 (13015)
7 years ago
I will open one big secret to you all, I, and I am a 31 year old male in case anyone is interested, have managed to get told off, complained about etc for stuff far less than a lot of bad people, mostly men of course, have done and get away with and with nary an upset bit of conscience on their behalf.
I also cannot even IMAGINE being ignorant and say blaming the victim of anything and keep a straight face and a normal mind in the process.
Does that mean that I was simply better raised than some people or is there no explanation on why some people are better than others etc?
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