A thought provoking question.
A friend recently presented this to me:
Q. Why do women have rights?
A. Because men gave them rights.
True of false? Discuss.
Women fought to make men give them equal rights. "A" might be a technically true statement but it does not tell the whole story. "A" implies some sort of benevolence on men's part which is misleading.
shareHow did they fight? There was no battle. Yes, women wanted/demanded rights, but how did they actually get them? As far as I can see, their rights were granted to them by men who believed (as I do) that they should have them.
shareRights are not "Granted". Rights are god given, or inherent. That is fundemental to our culture and political system.
I agree, but there are countries where women don't have rights because men won't let them.
The question isn't intended as a discussion of whether women should have rights, rather how did they get them.
SHITTY CONVO NO MATTER THE DIRECTION IT GOES.
shareWhy is that? Intelligent, thought provoking conversations that can be controversial are bad? Why? People sharing ideas is bad? This topic is existential and could be uncomfortable for some, but what's wrong with discussing such things?
shareTHIS IS TROLLBAIT HORSESHIT....IT SUCKS...AS DO YOU FOR POSTING AND DEFENDING IT.
shareThen phrase the question that way.
If you agree that rights are god given, then ask the question as though that is your framework, NOT as though you believe that rights are granted by the state or the king.
I phrased the question exactly how it was presented to me and the fact remains that throughout history, God given rights have and continue to be "granted" by those in power or from liberators. Women under the Taliban "have" God given rights, but they are unable to obtain them.
shareIt's odd that you claim to share the traditional AMERICAN belief that Rights are God Given, yet in every post you restate the OPPOSITE, that the rights are granted by men.
Let's make it more concrete. PIck a specific right that you think was "granted" to women and when it was "granted" to them.
Passed by Congress June 4, 1919, and ratified on August 18, 1920, the 19th amendment granted women the right to vote.
shareVoting is a right. It is also a privilege and a responsibility.
A lot of women didn't WANT that change. They worried that it would lead to more responsibility outside the home being put on them and end up putting them in competition with men.
I agree and it could be argued that that has happened but my point is still that God given rights don't always come into play without someone "granting" them. Atheists for example, don't believe rights are God given, so the only ways for people to have rights, are for them to be granted or seized.
shareGOD GIVEN APPLIES WITH OR WITHOUT THE BELIEF IN GOD.
shareExplain. Also, explain why a lot of God given rights are not always appropriated.
I believe that news journalists in the middle east (as an example), have the God given right to not be decapitated, but some are anyway.
GOD GIVEN...MAN MANIPULATED.
shareTotally! That's the point. Is it true or false that women have God given rights in place because men allowed it? I already gave the example of women's right to vote. That is a right that had to be granted for women to be able to vote.
share because men allowed it
YOU HAVE A PENIS...YOUR ROCK...WE GET IT...IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU SUPERIOR IN ANY WAY TO WOMEN...YOUR CONTINUED QUEST FOR THE WEIRD VALIDATION THAT MEN ALLOWING WOMEN TO ENJOY THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS IS SOMEHOW NOT A NEGATIVE FOR MEN AND NOT A DAMN THING MORE IS BIZARRE.
I don't care about any "validation". Why don't you address the question at hand instead of trying to be some crazy, white knight for some imagined cause? Do you or do you not agree that women have rights because men allowed? If not, tell me how women got rights and as as broader question, how has anyone who previously didn't have rights got them.
shareBORN EQUAL...BUT NOT TREATED AS EQUAL....WHAT A WONDERFUL GIFT...TREATING PEOPLE THE WAY THEY WERE MEANT TO BE TREATED ALL ALONG.
shareAgain, NOT THE POINT! People all over that world are not being treated like they were meant to be treated until someone allows it. Yes or no? Slaves were not freed until good people fought for them to be treated the way they were meant to be treated.
shareALLOWS...YOU ARE HELLBENT ON GETTING ME TO SAY MEN ALLOWED WOMEN TO BE EQUAL...WHICH I GUESS IS TECHNICALLY TRUE...IN THE SAME WAY I ALLOW A KIDNAP VICTIM TO ESCAPE TO THEIR FREEDOM.
shareYou finally understand the topic! How many people have you kidnapped and did you force them to smoke weed and watch movies with you and Ali?
shareI ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD YOUR "TOPIC"...I ALSO UNDERSTOOD HOW CHILDISH AND DIVISIVE IT WAS....I STOPPED KIDNAPPING PEOPLE LONG BEFORE ALI CAME ALONG.
shareAnd you've been the number one contributor.
Pro-tip: Avoid threads with "thought provoking" in the title.
I AM WATCHING SOUTH PARK AND MOVIECHATTING...ALI IS AT SCHOOL AND IT IS WINDY A FUCK OUTSIDE...I LOVED THE OPPURTUNITY TO DROP THIS MANY POSTS...USUALLY MIDDAY IS FAIRLY DEAD HERE....I HAVE A SHOGUN TO TAKE DOWN AND A THRONE TO SIT UPON AFTER ALL.
shareI don't understand your combativeness. We're on the same side. As an example of God given rights not being obtained, I believe unborn children have the God given right to not be aborted, but abortion is RAMPANT in America and the world.
share