Ok, as of now, supposedly over ONE MILLION Americans have died from covid and almost SEVEN MILLION world wide.
AND, more and more it is becoming accepted that the virus came from a leak from a Chinese bio weapons lab.
So, question is, what should be done to hold them accountable?
There's not really anything that can be done, anymore than people can hold Russia accountable.
shareSo, we are all in agreement? China kills one million Americans, and the proper response is to just let is slide?
Ditto the world as a whole?
I mean, assuming it was some lab leak... you have to demonstrate intent.
shareCan't really blame them if the leak was accidental but they kept it quiet and could have easily contained it by quickly shutting down travel. Instead they knowingly allowed it to spread killing millions worldwide. That they should be held accountable for.
shareIMO, if you are doing bio-weapons research, it is your responsibility to keep it contained.
Thus, they are primarily responsible, of negilent mass murder of 6 million people (supposedly).
AND, yes they should also be blamed for their lies that slowed the world response and their failure to shut down their external travel.
The bioweapons lab and the Wuhan Institute of Virology are two different places in the same city. If it had really escaped from a bioweapons lab if would have killed a lot more. But this is all really academic as it would be their fault for covering it up either way regardless which lab it was. I do not buy the theory it was released deliberately, assuming it did indeed come from a lab of some sort. So, the answer to the question, is yes, China should be blamed for COVID. What specifically should be done about it is another question.
shareRead JFK Jr's book on Fauci and get back to us with whether or not you think there's plenty of blame to go around.
I bet your local government put some practices in place that compounded the problem - are they not responsible as well?
CHINA made the bug and let the bug out. They have PRIMARY responsibility for SIX MILLION DEATHS.
Yet it seems know one wants to discuss that.
WHy?
Because it's misdirected blame.
They are responsible but so are others - why does no one want to discuss that?
No one wants to admit they shot their own foot.
I'm not saying that other people had a hand in it too.
This thread is about how much CHINA is getting a pass for kililng 6 million people.
The world can't cut China off with heavy sanctions anymore than the US can be cut off, even if there was a consensus that it was due to chinese negligence
shareSure we could.
AND, you raise an interesting point. Can you imagine what the world would be doing, including people INSIDE the US, if this had leaked from an AMERICAN bio-lab?
They would be demanding all kinds of punishment, and denouncing US all day, every day, and calling US every name in the book,
But China? Not a peep. Because, China, is an ACTUAL bad guy, and it would take REAL BRAVERY, to stand up to them.
Not the "bravery" where you stand among a crowd of people that all agree with you and say shit that everyone you know thinks and you all tell each other that you are "brave",
but the kind of bravery where you Speak Truth to Power, and the Power is willing to use that power to defend itself and come after you.
>They would be demanding all kinds of punishment, and denouncing US all day, every day, and calling US every name in the book,
And yet who the fuck would sanction the USA? No-one.
>But China? Not a peep. Because, China, is an ACTUAL bad guy, and it would take REAL BRAVERY, to stand up to them.
And because they can't be sanctioned without kneecapping yourself hard.
But again, the lab leak theory is still primarily theory and lacks hard evidence anyway.
Why could they NOT sanction the US?
shareBecause it'll be fucking up your own economy too much. US is too strong culturally and economically.
shareGive an example.
shareSorry, you think a country could just cut off all trade and financial and cultural interaction with the USA and not get hurt by it? Has anywhere ever done this majorly? Look at the damage done to countries sanctioned by the US: North Korea, Iran, Syria. You wanna live in those places?
shareALL? Or just the ones that fuck US and benefits them?
Huh?
I don't get what you're asking.
I said "Sanctions", and you responded as though that could ONLY be, all or nothing sanctions.
My point is that these shitty countries could easily choose to be SELECTIVE about sanctions to stop interactions that benefit US, thus fucking US, while keeping the ones that benefit them.
>I said "Sanctions", and you responded as though that could ONLY be, all or nothing sanctions.
>My point is that these shitty countries could easily choose to be SELECTIVE about sanctions to stop interactions that benefit US, thus fucking US, while keeping the ones that benefit them.
Those are examples of countries sanctioned by the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions_against_the_United_States
But they're usually pretty mild. Pretty sure the US could economically devastate a country economically if they chose to even mildly sanction them for political reasons.
And I also assume, in terms of your OP, that you have in mind more than just surface-level sanctions against China.
You imagine the US responding strongly and effectively in this scenario?
Funny, I see anti-americans on the Left , in media, university, big tech, ect, just having a hissy fit and siding with those who want to hold America responsible for their actions.
And yes, I would love to see massive, nearly across the board sanctions against China. After all they are a hostile and irresponsible nation that have killed millions with their incompetence and arrogance.
>Funny, I see anti-americans on the Left , in media, university, big tech, ect, just having a hissy fit and siding with those who want to hold America responsible for their actions.
Those on the left whine about Cuba sanctions (and I say that as someone who thinks Cuba should be bought back into the fold). They whine about Israel support. Nothing changes. You overestimate the relevance of anti-NATO/USA leftists.
>And yes, I would love to see massive, nearly across the board sanctions against China. After all they are a hostile and irresponsible nation that have killed millions with their incompetence and arrogance.
So would I. Although not specifically for that, but just because they're an authoritarian one party state engaging in cultural genocide.
But the world relies on them too much.
The "World"? I disagree. I think it could be done fairly easily if we got our act together.
shareWho built the lab?
Hint: it Rhymes with Obama/Fauci.
DR. JORAMA CROUCHEY
shareEvidence please
shareThat's not evidence.
sharethats where everyone finds evidence.
this took 5 seconds.
The Intercept contain new evidence that the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the nearby Wuhan University Center for Animal Experiment, along with their collaborator, the U.S.-based nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance, have engaged in what the U.S. government defines as “gain-of-function research of concern,” intentionally making viruses more pathogenic or transmissible in order to study them, despite stipulations from a U.S. funding agency that the money not be used for that purpose.
Where does this article provide evidence that Fauci and Obama literally helped build the laboratory?
In addition, your own article: "U.S.-funded experiment in China posed biosafety risks but did not cause Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say."
And, as always - there's always a factcheck:
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/scicheck-republicans-spin-nih-letter-about-coronavirus-gain-of-function-research/
"Multiple other experts told the Intercept, which published other similar documents last month after suing the NIH, that the work EcoHealth Alliance was doing would be considered gain-of-function,"
seems that factcheck agrees they (Obama Admin) were doing gain of function work.
maybe they should launch a Mueller type investigation?
Again, if there is funding of research... the original claim in this thread was specifically that Obama and Fauci were somehow involved in the laboratories building. There's no reference to Obama here at all in this article, for starters.
sharemore than likely any communication about Obama funding the Wuhan lab would be classified as top secret and wouldn't be accessible on the internet.
shareSo you are just basically aimlessly speculating
shareas are you.
shareWhat am I speculating about?
sharethat Obama didnt fund gain of function at the Wuhan lab.
shareI am also "speculating" that Obama has nothing to do with sending arms to Ukraine as well, by that logic. You are postulating things and proposing them. The burden of evidence is on you.
And remember, the original claim was: "Who built the lab? Hint: it Rhymes with Obama/Fauci."
Where is the evidence that Fauci or Obama literally helped *build* this lab?
American money was used on this, with very little proper oversight and no safeguards, no ENFORCED safeguards.
That by itself is quite a realization if you think about it.
Query, was this the only example of such stupidity, or, more likely, does it represent a small, partial explanation for the absurd amount of money that the US government wastes just throwing it aroudn with zero concern for the interests of the US citizens, and plenty of concern for giving themselves justifications for their jobs and salaries.
Second of all, SOMEONE in the us goverment was responsible for this, and if it was not Fauci and Obama, then we really need to know who it was.
But not for the building of it...
shareYou seem to be drawing a very fine distinction with very little difference, in order to say some words as though they justify giving people a pass for their actions.
I'm not sure what you are referring to by "building of it", but it doesn't matter. After the Red Chinese government, the people in the US goverment who gave them money to do it, and didn't care that they were doing it and doing it badly,
deserve blame TOO.
AND, nothing you said, said anything about why they should not be blamed for it, and held accountable.
AND, Fauci and Obama still seem to be the ones in positions of responsibility.
>I'm not sure what you are referring to by "building of it", but it doesn't matter. After the Red Chinese government, the people in the US goverment who gave them money to do it, and didn't care that they were doing it and doing it badly,
Follow this comment trail:
u/Gd5150
>Who built the lab?
>Hint: it Rhymes with Obama/Fauci.
That was what I asked evidence for.
That Fauci had had some involvement with their operations later on is a different thing, and by the way, there remains to be actual direct incontroversial evidence that the virus leaked from the lab.
Dude. No one gives a damn who BUILT THE BUILDING. It's about who paid for the work of creating the bioweapon.
Chine bears primary responsibility. Fauci gave the Red Chinese money to do bio-weapon research, AMERICAN TAXPAYER MONEY. Obama was in charge and responsible at the time.
>Dude. No one gives a damn who BUILT THE BUILDING. It's about who paid for the work of creating the bioweapon.
GD specifically claimed, or suggested, that Obama/Fauci funded the buildings development. That was specifically what I was querying the claims about.
>Chine bears primary responsibility. Fauci gave the Red Chinese money to do bio-weapon research, AMERICAN TAXPAYER MONEY. Obama was in charge and responsible at the time.
Where is the evidence that this was bioweapon research?
You are playing word games now.
As for "evidence", I've read that scientists now believe that it is basically impossible that the developements noted in the bug, occurred naturally.
Not all research that fucks up is inherently "bioweapon" research. But again, if you look up all current articles on this - it's contested at minimum.
shareSure it's "contested". Without a real judge running the game all the bad guys have to do is gaslight and stonewall.
Doesn't mean shit. Unless you have some reason to want to play along with the game they play.
The Red Chinese and their fan boys, might as well be Big Tobacco still insisting that smoking doesn't cause cancer.
LOL!!!!
>Sure it's "contested". Without a real judge running the game all the bad guys have to do is gaslight and stonewall.
Right. So what do you propose exactly? The world isn't going to mass sanction China for something that is not confirmed.
Stop with the two step. If you want to ask me what I propose, ask it without having to put in your qualifier.
You've said in other posts that the world should sanction China for this. But it's unproven. You must know that this is really just not going to happen.
shareUnproven is bullshit. The world is not a court of law or a lab. That virus is china's fault.
The reason the world won't do anything about it, is not doubt over it being their fault,
but becuase China is an actual BAD GUY, and standing up to them is actually dangerous. They will use their power to fight back.
For... a long time now, a lot of people have talked a LOT of shit about being brave or fighting the man, or resisting this or that ism.
BUT, they have been talking shit, fighting battles that better men than them, won before they were born.
CHINA, is an evil that is still here, still able and willing to fight back.
THAT is why they are getting a pass. Because they are actually scary.
>Unproven is bullshit. The world is not a court of law or a lab. That virus is china's fault.
Again, it is demonstrably highly charged in speculation. And even if it was 100% determined - it would be spun as an accident.
>but becuase China is an actual BAD GUY, and standing up to them is actually dangerous. They will use their power to fight back.
And the world couldn't do shit when USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, or even when US intervened in Kosovo.
And yes, because China is big and powerful and has a lot of economic might.
Big difference between being angry that the US invaded Iraq, overthrowing Saddam and
China killing large numbers of your own citizens.
And American got a lot of diplomatic push back for Iraq.
China has gotten NOTHING.
>Big difference between being angry that the US invaded Iraq, overthrowing Saddam and
Not so much to the Middle-East. Yet they couldn't do shit.
>China killing large numbers of your own citizens.
You mean China allegedly cocking up and accidentally causing a pandemic. You speak as if it was released, if it was released, deliberately.
>And American got a lot of diplomatic push back for Iraq.
International furrowed brows. Big deal. US got no actual pushback in real terms.
Yes, even in the M.E. Big difference between being unhappy that Saddam got his ass invaded, and being unhappy that someone got your people killed by their incompetence.
shareShould Iraq sanction the US for facilitating the conditions that led to 500k of their people dying?
Oh wait, they can't if they don't want to self-destruct
Iraq was who we invaded. A better example would be... Algeria. Algeria might have been unhappy about our invadingi Iraq, but was not directly hurt.
Teh whole world got fucked by that Chinese virus.
Right. And what can Iraq do if they're pissed off? Can they sanction US? Sure. Will it hurt US? No. Will it hurt Iraq? It will fuck them up hard.
I have no idea what you expect here.
Admit that you know that China is responsible but you don't want to hold them to account becuase it would be hard.
shareNo. Because it's not confirmed - and if it was, it was a leak - it would not be deliberate.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/28/1160162845/what-does-the-science-say-about-the-origin-of-the-sars-cov-2-pandemic
What do you want before you accept it as confirmed?
sharePretty much uniform consensus and supplied data from virologists and public health organisations from across many different countries and institutions.
sharePretty safe standard, since you know that the Red Chinese will not allow investigation and is very capable of pressuring people to keep pretend "doubt" alive.
shareI mean, I'll await evidence that China specifically intimidates non-Chinese organisations and virologists here.
But again, where do you expect this to go? This just isn't going to happen no matter what I or you say.
“The NIH kept saying, ‘No, we didn’t do it, we didn’t do it,’ until last night they admitted, ‘Yes, they did do it,” said Sen. Rand Paul.
The National Institutes of Health is now admitting to funding gain-of-function research at a lab in Wuhan, China despite repeated denials from Dr. Anthony Fauci that U.S. tax dollars were used on the funding.
Starting in 2014 during the Obama Administration, the NIH’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, headed by Dr. Anthony Fauci, funded the New York-based research nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance with annual grants through 2020 for “Understanding the Risk of Bat Coronavirus Emergence.”
United States top infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci told lawmakers on Tuesday that the Wuhan Institute of Virology received money from the National Institutes of Health amid rising concerns over coronavirus origins.
According to Fauci, $600,000 were earmarked for the institute in Wuhan over a period of five years to study zoonotic viruses and whether bat coronaviruses could jump onto human beings.
Fauci told a House Appropriations subcommittee that the funds were being sent to the lab in China through the non-profit alliance called EcoHealth.
The Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory, housed at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, was set up in the hopes of helping China contribute research on the world's most dangerous viruses.
Constructed in 2015 with funding from the Obama Administration, the lab was still undergoing safety testing, but near ready to open in 2017.
i started this thread to be about holding CHINA accountable,
BUT, to me the first question when I read this is,
WHY were we doing that in the first place, and what does it say about the overall culture and mindset among those responsible for spending the vast among of money we send to Washington Fucking D.C.?
No you have an agenda. It is okay though I am glad idiots like you have no political power.
shareYou also think there is voter fraud. Even before any investigation took place you claimed this. This tells us all we need to know about your mindset. It also destroys your credibility.
shareOf course none of this says that Fauci literally help fund the buildings development.
shareevidence please
shareWhere does it say in your provided sources that Fauci helped fund the buildings development?
sharewhere is your evidence that says Obama/Fauci did not fund gain of function at the wuhan lab?
shareYou don't understand the burden of proof. You can't disprove a negative. You (or GD) made the claim that Obama and Fauci funded the development of the building itself.
shareI already proved that Obama was responsible for gain of function funding, now the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.
sharehttps://www.factcheck.org/misconceptions/the-origins-of-covid-19/
There's always a factcheck. Every time.
https://www.factcheck.org/2023/03/scicheck-still-no-determination-on-covid-19-origin/
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/scicheck-republicans-spin-nih-letter-about-coronavirus-gain-of-function-research/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-director-says-covid-pandemic-likely-caused-by-chinese-lab-leak-13a5e69b
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/28/1160157977/u-s-dept-of-energy-says-with-low-confidence-that-covid-may-have-leaked-from-a-la
so you are saying that our Gov is lying to us?
I fact checked the fact check and its wrong.
https://theintercept.com/2022/02/20/nih-coronavirus-research-wuhan-redacted/
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-grant-darpa/
What is the fact-check specifically wrong about?
And it's amusing how you trust the FBI, or people within the FBI on this but likely still allege that they're otherwise untrustworthy on all Trump-related matters.
More info:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00998-y
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/03/covid-origins-research-raccoon-dogs-wuhan-market-lab-leak/673390/
Biden ordered the raid on Trumps house, it was fact checked. The FBI didnt have much choice, they had to follow or be deported to bidens gulag.
share>Biden ordered the raid on Trumps house, it was fact checked. The FBI didnt have much choice, they had to follow or be deported to bidens gulag.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-biden-search-documents-461520270373
Can you tell me what "Biden's gulag" is supposed to be, exactly? What "gulags" does the US currently operate?
bidens gulags are super max facilities where you have no rights if you speak out against democrats. they will ruin your life if you dont conform.
shareFirst, a full UNBIASED investigation needs to be performed. All guilty parties need to be tried for their crimes. Nuremberg 2.0.
If its people from China, so be it. If Americans were involved, so be it.
Almost the entire world lost 3 years of their lives they aren't getting back. Some of us were threatened imprisonment and removal from society over not taking a failed product. People need to go to prison for the rest of their pathetic lives for this.
________________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
Leftists always lie.
Wokeness is Weakness.
Here, have a tissue. Feel better?
share1. China will not allow any investigators on it's territory.
2. Correct. It is not just the people that died that were effected. Very nearly EVERYONE in the world, was fucked up in some way by this.
3. Being unhappy about such a horrible event, is reasonable. Making fun of someone for being unhappy about the deaths of millions and ect, is NOT reasonable. It is actually quite shitty.
I take it robcat, that you are a vote for "Just give China a Pass"?
You can take whatever you want. I don't care.
shareLame comment. -3 points.
shareIt wasn't 3 years. It was, at best 1 year and a half if you're referring to covid restrictions for most places
shareHow about 10% off vouchers for Panda Express?
shareYou have to think about this in context. Killing another nations people slowly doesn't count as genocide or an act of war. China does it with Fentanyl and COVID but it's slow and methodical. China is smart because they know that Democracy sucks as you can clearly see that nothing gets done with squabbling corrupt Congress. Slow killing is okay killing, just like everything else US companies do like cigarettes, alcohol, teflon, burn pits, etc. etc.
shareWell, I think it is more than just Congress. It is a failure of our entire leadership, both political and intellectual.
We are not a serious country any more. The most stupid shit can be said and not challenged. The most serious problems are ignored if they are too hard.
And it seems that this is not just US, but the whole world.
As demonstrated by the pass China is getting for letting a bio-weapon escape it's lab and kill millions.