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FilmBuff's Replies
The Last Jedi has so far earned $1.3 billion, and is the 9th highest grossing movie of all time. That's hardly something to laugh at. What number did it need to hit for you to admit it was a massive financial success?
I'm pretty new here, but I have seen you post numerous times with what seems to be wishful thinking negativity. What's the deal? Why do you ignore the obvious and post the way you do? I don't *think* it's simple trolling. You appear to have more of an agenda, but it's all based on completely ignoring the facts. You seem to hate Star Wars and Black Panther, but your hate is limited to saying things like "it's totally going to flop." When it gets high praise from critics, and earns $278 million in its first 6 days you're still here predicting doom for it. Black Panther will *probably* make a billion dollars. Regardless of its final tally, it's going to be remembered for a long time as a massive hit, both critically and monetarily.
Is it a political thing? I'm a fairly conservative person, but I'm not bothered by the success of Black Panther or Star Wars. They're movies. They're fun. The Force Awakens was as good as any Star Wars film since Star Wars, and I have high hopes for Part 9. Did The Last Jedi put inclusivity ahead of plot at times? Yeah, and the film suffered for it, but it was still a fun film, and I'm not going to try to pretend it didn't make boatloads of money just because I don't agree with all of it's politics.
Is it a Marvel vs. DC thing? If so, sucks to be you I guess. Marvel is 18/18 and shows no sign of letting up. They've been able to take C and D List properties like Dr. Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant Man, and now Black Panther and create films that both critics and fans love, and they're making a fortune doing it. DC may one day right their ship, and I hope they do because I LOVE Batman and Superman, but I'm not going to pretend 3 of the last 4 DC films were anything other than garbage. Wonder Woman was okay, but even that one didn't do much for me. Someday, maybe, we'll get another Superman II, but until then we have to accept that DC has their head up their ass when it comes to movies.
Is it something else? Seriously dude, sup?
I thought about the same after seeing the films, except for one fairly large difference. When the first film came out it was a self-contained story, and my interpretation was that Neo had, in a sense, outsmarted the Oracle, though her prophecy did in fact come true. She told him he was not the one, but maybe in the next life. When Agent Smith kills Neo, something happens that isn't explained. He comes back to life. The power of love, a singularly human emotion, gives his human body the power to overcome being killed in the computer. As Morpheus then says, he is The One. His next life has begun.
When the next two films came out, I integrated that idea into my overall idea of the story. Pretty much everything you say fits with what I believe, too, except that I think that the Oracle didn't hatch her plan until she saw love resurrect Neo. That was what made her change her mind, and work to sabotage the status quo.
Haven't even heard of it. It's good?
Definitely up there, and I can't think of anything offhand that trumps it.
I understand where you're coming from better now. Marvel's films are made with an adult audience in mind, and they provide comic relief in just the same way that Tarantino, Anderson, the Coens, etc. do. The comedy is different, in part because it's superheroes and not gangsters or hotel clerks, and in part because Marvel's "voice" is different than that of, say, Tarantino, but it's the same concept-- break the tension of the action with a well-timed joke.
Assuming you are being sincere in what you write, you aren't able to differentiate between a serious film with comedic moments and a comedy.
When Pulp Fiction was first released, audience response to it was identical to that of Thor:Ragnarok-- we laughed nearly the entire time. The movie is hilarious, with some tense moments, but even things like cleaning brains out of a car, anal rape, or a heroin overdose are portrayed in a funny way. I still wouldn't classify the film as a comedy.
I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. My point is that it doesn't matter either way. McGregor was fine as Obi Wan, even though it was impossible to believe Guinness would have looked like McGregor. Likewise, it doesn't matter at all if the new Solo actor's bone structure doesn't match Harrison Ford's.
I think that it doesn't matter at all. Who cares if he looks like Harrison Ford? What possible bearing does that have on the film? All that matter is if he can act.
Do you take issue with a 28 year-old Ewen McGregor playing young Obi Wan Kenobi, who would have had to have been at least 45 at the time of Phantom Menace to justify him looking like 63 year-old Alec Guinness in Star Wars?
I think you have a very different concept of what a comedy is than the established definition. By your reckoning, some other "comedies" include Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown, hell, all of Tarantino's films, Trainspotting, Stranger Things, Boogie Nights, all of Wes Anderson's films, nearly everything the Coen brothers have done... and that's just off the top of my head.
A movie being funny, or even consistently funny, doesn't make it a comedy. Thor:Ragnarok was a super-hero film with plenty of comic relief in the same way that Pulp Fiction is a gangster film with plenty of comic relief.
It's mind-boggling that it took Black Panther only 4 days to outsell Justice League's entire box office run. Imagine being told 10 years ago that one day a movie about an obscure C-List Marvel superhero would vastly out-earn a movie featuring Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. You'd have laughed your ass off, and yet, here we are.
I wish DC could figure things out. Richard Donner and Tim Burton showed us you CAN make good films with their characters...
My opinion is that you're wrong. The CGI was amazing in this film. It looked like an actual Godzilla stomping around, battling other monsters, breathing fire, etc. After a lifetime of seeing so-bad-it's-good schlocky unintentionally comedic Godzilla films with a guy in a foam rubber suit stomping on fake cities made from balsa wood, it was a breath of fresh air to see a properly made Godzilla film. That's not an insult to the older films. They are fun, and as a child I loved them, but this is the only Godzilla film that an adult can watch and re-watch and enjoy as a proper film.
What exactly were you looking for in this movie? What about the CGI looked even remotely bad to you?
He'll have to rely on that weapon because the lever that activates his atomic breath weapon snapped off during a previous battle.
Iron Man 3 is certainly my least favorite, but it isn't a bad film by any stretch. Likewise Thor 2, which works fine within the trilogy. It's more that Marvel's films have been so uniformly good that even the least favorite are still quite good.
Quite a disparity in the rankings. I'm especially surprised at how low Spider-Man: Homecoming is appearing on many people's lists. Only Iron Man and Black Panther received higher critical acclaim, and it was huge hit with audiences. Personally I think it's more or less tied with The Winter Soldier as the best MCU film to date, and I can't quite grasp how, for example, someone ranked it 12th, or another labeled it average. Even if someone isn't a fan of Spider-Man, the movie itself was, well, amazing, and is one of very few comic book films, in my opinion anyway, that transcend the genre.
I don't see this at all.
Batman - loner, millionaire, fights crime to avenge the death of his parents, hides from the world in a cave, has no super powers so instead uses gadgetry to fight crime, vigilante fugitive from the law, keeps his identity secret from the world
Black Panther - charismatic, millionaire, doesn't fight crime, had a long relationship with his father, mom still alive, openly reveals his identity and title to the world, has superpowers, acts within the parameters of the law, doesn't rely on gadgetry much beyond a bulletproof suit and some spy gear as needed, is king of an African nation
So yeah, they're both rich superheroes, but after that... ???
So of course we saw this coming in recent years, as Marvel consistently produced better films. It would have been staggering had Black Panther not been better than Justice League. BUT...
... imagine someone telling those of us who grew up before superhero movies were a thing that someday a Black Panther movie would so vastly outdo a film that featured Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and the entire Justice League. Even the idea that Black Panther, or Ant-Man, or Dr. Strange, or the Guardians of the Galaxy would all get big budget films that would be critical successes would have made teenage me laugh. And yet, that's the wonderful world in which we today live!
Best I can do is group them into tiers. Within the groupings they aren't in any kind of order.
The best two films:
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
The excellent films:
The Avengers
Thor: Ragnarok
Guardians of the Galaxy
Ant-Man
Captain America: Civil War
Black Panther
The very good films:
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Thor
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
Doctor Strange
The films I thought were flawed but good:
Captain America: The First Avenger
The Incredible Hulk
My least favorite, but still enjoyable, films:
Thor: The Dark World
Iron Man 3
Ragnarock was a better movie by my reckoning, too, but I also enjoyed Black Panther a lot. It's up there with most of the best MCU films, and something I'll see a second time.
The Black Panther comic came out about 4 or 5 months before Huey Newton founded the Black Panther Party, and the names being the same was coincidental, but I think "waaay" before is a bit of a stretch. Maybe waay before is more accurate?
Agreed. As I mention above, I have issues with the whole ranking of films, as sometimes certain aspects of a film are better than those of another, but then in other ways the film may not be as good. That said, I'd group the 18 MCU films into five broad categories of quality, and Black Panther definitely falls into the "2nd best" group. Where it ranks within that group I can't say, but it's definitely as good or better than most of the other MCU films, which is saying a lot, as they've made 18 movies and none has been bad.