MovieChat Forums > Bobby Briggs Briganza > Replies
Bobby Briggs Briganza's Replies
I get turned on when Sheryl Lee screams.
"My mom is the dreamer."
And... still no substance. You can call me an idiot, but you still have not provided any material to address the point, only cliché remarks and abuse. Not even, for that matter, any substance to support calling me an idiot!
"like american horror story"
lol
Ah, the days of innocence. When everyone was along for the ride during the first four episodes, delighted to see some of the old characters ("Where Are They Now?") and excited to see where the new characters might lead. Enjoying as Lynch started to open a box of intrigue. lol.
As used to be said on the old IMDb:
Salient post.
Very convenient, again, that you suddenly don't care about the actual thing being discussed, and that you can claim that I am the reason you don't care. There is absolutely no substance to your posts on this topic, just insults, abuse, and cliché phrases ("truth hurts," "I don't give 2 shits" etc.).
The sum total of your argument has been, "One can clearly tell the word is 'chants' by hearing it. This is true because it is the way *I* perceive it and because I have American friends." And, as an added bonus, "You have a problem understanding your native language [American English] because you don't hear / pronounce it the way that I, a non-native, do."
It makes no sense why, in the face of the overwhelming evidence that countless English speakers heard the line as "chance," the technical linguistic evidence of how American English speakers articulate [ns] as [nts], the appearance of "chance" in Lynch's original script, and the veritable tradition of discussants of Twin Peaks favoring both "chance" and "chants" in good numbers, that you would stick to your position.
Moreover, you seem incapable, in this moment, of stepping back to see the root of this disagreeable exchange is your refusal to accept the facts, and that all the disagreeable remarks from my side are only in response to that. Claiming that I am just being an asshole (out of the blue) and making replies on that theme (rather than the actual topic) is pure distraction (redirection). Everyone can see that you are a fraud. Parabéns!
This sort of exchange was already played out in a recent conversation you had with Kazak. Stop the petty retorts. They are distractions that you try to create — with rhetoric such as "triggered" and "mental breakdown" and "I know you are... but what am *I*?" —and irrelevant to the basic facts.
So it's interesting that you would say now that you "couldn't care less" after... what? After realizing you're wrong? Stop trying to mischaracterize the other person's argument to create distraction. For example, I didn't say that "Pointing a fact is ... douchebaggery." I said that you saying native speakers who hear "chance" have problems with their own language makes you sound like an ass. Or an arse, if you prefer. Now, let's stay on point:
My claim has been that the FWWM poem is ambiguous, in large part due to the "chants" and "chance" sounding identical (at least, in the American English of Twin Peaks).
Two types of evidence support this.
1) The evidence of the sounds one can hear! If you need to get technical, look up "intrusive stop" or "plosive epenthesis" for explanations of why this phenomenon — the phenomenon of pronouncing an unwritten "t" — occurs. In a less technical way, look up sources that call "chance" and "chants" homophones.
2) The evidence of people's reported perceptions. Many many people have reported interpreting the word to be "chance." It occurs in the titles of essays, it appears in books of academic (!) discussion of Twin Peaks, in blogs, and in many many on-line discussions.
Other sorts of evidence also demonstrate the ambiguity of the word choice, though these do less to support what I am talking about (listeners'/viewers' perceptions/interpretations) and what I'm not talking about (the intended meaning of the creators). The most intriguing piece of this evidence of this type is the original script for the episode where the One Armed Man speaks the lines, which I linked to, above. The line appears as "chance" in that script.
"Good Cooper doesn't defeat Bad Cooper himself. That was a big let-down. Having peripheral characters accomplish the big purpose instead of the hero, was disappointing."
The only thing disappointing for me was that the peripheral character to do it was not Tammy and/or Bobby. Everyone was just standing around. They might have well have dropped balloons from the ceiling and started dancing to music.
I'm not sure why you're being an insecure douchebag with respect to this topic. Telling me how words are pronounced? How obnoxious. Do you think you're the only person around who knows more than one language? I have studied many, and used languages other than my native English professionally, including while working for the U.S. Department of Defense. Give me a break.
I've already said everything that needs to be said in this thread for readers to know exactly what I am and what I am not claiming. One thing, however, bears repeating: "Chants" and "chance" sound the same when pronounced by a native speaker of American English. The fact that you don't know that (or pretend not to know) is a forgivable. But for you to go on asserting not only that they are clearly different pronunciations ("See look! One has the letter T!"), but also that people like myself "have problems with their own language," is first-class douchebaggery.
On a related note:
[url]http://www.lynchnet.com/tp/tp02.html[/url]
This logic is backwards. If, being charitable, I have superior knowledge (including great intuition) of English, then shouldn't you be trusting what I say?
There is no difference in sound between "chance out" "chants out." While one can do an analysis of the poem and arrive that the conclusion that "chants" makes the MOST sense in the whole scheme of things, at the immediate level -- within the line, and when the phrase has just been heard (without the opportunity for long reflection) -- "chance" sounds like the more likely word since "chance out" is a real utterance and "chants out" is not.
In any case, if you do some (Internet) research, you'll find that many people have debated this over years. This proves my point that it is ambiguous and unclear.
It's what she always plays nowadays, because it's what her face is suited for.
Note also the fact that the OP wrote, "One chants between...", omitting the word "out"—perhaps due to the difficulty of remembering such an unusually construction. Contemporary English has "call out" and it was once more common to say "sing out." "Chants out" seems built on a similar logic, however 1) it's very unfamiliar; 2) it contains a contradiction, in that "out" has the connotation of being loud and communicating to someone else over a distance, whereas one quietly chanting alone is not like that.
"The language is pretty clear."
The language is not clear, at all. That's not opinion, that's objective fact. It's arguably (opinion) ambiguous, and maybe even intentionally so.
"Twink Peaks"
I didn't know it was the gay version you had watched. Maybe that explains the difference?
There's a huge difference between only hearing something spoken and being influenced by other sources of information, especially writing, but even including translations. "Chants out" is a construction that English-speakers will never encounter in their lives if they don't watch TP.
OK yes, I get what you're saying. I guess I'd say that if we were talking TP "at its core" then we would have removed all supernatural elements (already), yet you said "at its core.... [possessed]", which is what I was responding to. Anyway, I think we're basically on the same page.
"Even the subtitles in the series dvds..."
What do you mean by "even"? Of course the subtitles have that, if people are saying it is what it is.
(Remember: I didn't say "chants" was incorrect.) I asked how people figured out "chants", if NOT through exposure to the written word. Of course in your Danish castle you had the DVD with close-captions and read "chants" (along with the DVD added features that told you everything TP was about the first time you watched it). But if you watched it normally, on the TV broadcast, on VHS, or with no subtitles... how do you get "chants out"? It's such an odd turn of phrase that only Wally Brando would use. The vast majority of people will never encounter the phrase "chants out" in their lives.
Laura's father was not possessed in the real world.
They're the most nondescript "Becky" names, too. No Shaniqua in sight.
Did most of these actresses win a sweepstakes to appear in Twin Peaks? "The first 20 women who reply to this Instagram post with the hashtag #TP_revival get to appear as a random character."
Off topic, but I always thought it was "One CHANCE out between two worlds."
Well, not always. At some point some years back I "learned" it was "CHANTS."
But I still wonder how people first figured that out. Is it obvious from hearing? Or did people read it somewhere? "Chants out" does sound poetic, and I like it better. It means that someone is chanting the phrase, "FWWM." Yet "one chance out" seems more obvious—There's one chance to escape the limbo of being stuck between two worlds.
K.
BirdmanT7 - Let's rumble at the New Beverley. Does Tarantino own any Lynch films? It will be fun.
One of the funnest nights of my life was going to so _Blue Velvet_ in a revival theatre (i.e. not first run, but it was still circa 1994, so a while back). Packed house, every member of the audience totally into it.
I enjoyed Twin Peaks season 3. I'm not in a place where I'm really critiquing it though. It appeals to me more than 90% of other cinema/TV, and I suppose that's enough.