MovieChat Forums > The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (2022) Discussion > I really don't see all the supposed woke...

I really don't see all the supposed wokeness that has people so outraged

posted 2 years ago by Baranovich (4)
14 replies | jump to latest

After watching all the six episodes, I don't think this series is nearly as "woke" as so many have been proclaiming.

I personally am absolutely loving the cast and the acting in this so far.

As far as the specific inclusion of "black" elves, Harfoots, dwarves and Numenorean queen, I wish to point out something very specific. Amazon did not "go woke" and create entire nations of darker-skinned people. In case anyone hasn't noticed, 99% of the cast is still most certainly Caucasian. Some of the Numenorans appear to be of like Polynesian or Hawaiian descent. Which I think is actually brilliant given that they are an island nation so closely tied to the ocean.

i would also like to remind some people, who seem now to fondly praise Peter Jackson's trilogy of LOTR without even a thought or whisper of daring to criticize it, that Jackson also used people of color in many background shots in Minas Tirith, as well as background shots in Laketown in The Hobbit.

So if we're going to accuse Amazon of wokeness, explain to me how Peter Jackson wasn't any less woke with his choice of extras.

Tolkien describes the elves as a fair-skinned race.

So is it not possible that at some point in Middle Earth an elf and a person from another culture produced an off-spring?

Dark-skinned Harfoot. Same thing?

Dark-skinned dwarven wife. Same thing?

And i want to point out, that the actors who are not Caucasian in TROP are not blatantly dark, they are very light or medium skinned, far from hard, dark "black."

Every single elf in Lindon is very, very Caucasion. 99% of the dwarves are Caucasian.

With regard to the two Harfoot companions being female, supposedly a "ripoff" of Frodo and Sam, just a work version of them switched to females.

So let me see if I get this straight. Two female Harfoots can't be friends? And can't be part of the storyline?

I've have been reading Tolkien since I was 15 years old, almost 40 years ago. I own practically every single Tolkien book there is, including every volume of the History of Middle Earth. I am one of the biggest Tolkien literary purists you will find.

But I think people are forgetting that both Jackson's and Amazon's productions are BASED on Tolkien. Not a literal one to one translation to screen. Jackson changed Merry and Pippin's characters SIGNIFICANTLY. To this day I still don't like the changes he made to those characters. Jackson changed the Faramir character DRAMATICALLY for the sake of on-screen drama. And Jackson shrunk a very long period of time between Bilbo's party and when Frodo finally takes the ring out of the Shire. Again, done for dramatic effect.

So please don't tell me that Jackson 100% faithfully followed the books, because he most certainly did not.

[–] leader (1959) 2 years ago

1. it pushes a girlboss girlpower narrative. that is a 21st century agenda whether you like it or not
2. elves has short hair. just why?

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 2 years ago

A brand new sock puppet troll. How surprising.

[–] KCurmudgeon (263) 2 years ago

The Jackson moves are one HECK of a lot more faithful to the source material than is RoP however. I honestly don't notice or have any particular issue with any alleged woke-ness either. I just think it's an incredibly poorly scripted, written, cast, and acted turd of a series. That's all on top of just willy-nilly changing clearly articulated facts and characters' personalities from the source material for no good reason.

[–] papamihel (1616) 2 years ago

Arandir... Or is it Arondir? The black Elf stated that he was around since the First Age. He was a Sindarin elf from Beleriand.
There were no black people there. None.
It is also mentioned in the show that only 2 interspecies couplings had happened by that point.

So while it's not impossible that throughout the history of Middle Earth there were Elven women raped by Haradrim raiders or maybe an Elf fell in love with a Haradrim girl, it couldn't have happened in this case.

[–] CrabgrassWilly (1616) 2 years ago

My thoughts too. The black elf said specifically that there had only been a couple elf / human offspring until that point and they led to tragedy. So he wasn't one obviously. The black dwarf and hobbits have nothing to say they can't exist though.

[–] asom (6824) 2 years ago

How many black dwarves have you seen in this show???

And the harfoots are a mess. An isolated, small population but multiracial tribe. WTF???

I mean you have white, black, indian, arabs in a tribe with roughly 20 members ... that ket out of ANY external contact for hundreds if not thousands of years ...

[–] CrabgrassWilly (1616) 2 years ago

Only one black dwarf that I've seen. But caves are pretty dark, so maybe there are a lot of them that we just couldn't see em.

Should be no black elves at this point though, but I can live with the possibility of the other races.

[–] asom (6824) 2 years ago

"Only one black dwarf that I've seen."

And that's one of the problems. Even if there were black dwarves (there aren't) - they to be more than one.

Same for elves. You magically have ONE black elf/dwarf in a see of white elves/dwarves.

HotD although they changed the Velaryons to be black they made the whole family black. And that, although is against the lore - ALL Valyrians being white (pale skin), somehow made sense.

[–] papamihel (1616) 2 years ago

Theoretically there can be black Dwarves.
First of all, Tolkien dwarves are based on Nordic dvergr and there is some confusion. Some people think they are Svartalfs (black elves) and these are described in the Prosaic Edda as being "pitch black".
Also Tolkien's Dwarves are not natural creatures. Aule crested the Fathers of the Dwarves and who is to say he didn't make them of different colours? For all we know there are blue and purple Dwarves somewhere out there...

[–] joej2923 (3021) 2 years ago

I'm a Tolkien fan who has read The Hobbit, LOTR and The Silmarillion. I never bothered to read the LOTR appendices. I actually struggled to finish LOTR due to all the poems and songs.

I do think the female characters are all STRONG while the men are mostly sidekicks. The Nerdrotic youtube channel called this the RINGS OF GIRL POWER and I think that nails it. Galadriel and Bronwyn are fearless warriors and leaders. Miriel is the wise ruler while her dotard king father is weak and bedridden. Disa is charismatic while Durin is petty. I believe this falls under INTERSECTIONALITY, the effort to tear apart traditional roles based on gender, class, race, etc.

This is a fantasy world so it's hard to argue over the casting of black/asian actors. I personally would have preferred the introduction of easterlings in order to give jobs to actors of color. Amazon is marketing this product to the world so it might make business sense to cast people of different ethnicities.

Jackson was mostly faithful to the Middle-Earth lore while the Rings of Power showrunners have twisted and manipulated the lore.

[–] alienzen (1931) 2 years ago

Don't agree with your take on Durin at all. According to a poll I did on reddit he is the most popular character in the show so far.
Now the only white male who is apparently good at fighting and allowed to have traditional masculine traits is Sauron in disguise, so there is that. Bronwyn, Galadriel and Miriel are all girl bosses. Elrond is an elf, so I think you can explain his somewhat effeminate demeanor that way(although Galadriel is a female elf, and is the most masculine character in the series....so yeah).
Elendil has admirable traits, but he is definitely a "safe" male.
I actually like Miriel's character. I find Bronwyn worse than Galadriel. The way she plonked the orcs head on the table and all of the stupid white men were looking dumbfounded was probably the most annoying scene in the entire series.

[–] joej2923 (3021) 2 years ago

Your poll on Durin STINKS! Just joking! Most of the characters on ROP are unlikeable so it don't mean SQUAT to be the most popular character on ROP LOL! I just thought Durin was such a beotch since he was complaining about somebody missing his wedding. Does a male care about his wedding? HELL NO! He just gets married to have a HONEYMOON! It also doesn't make sense that Durin would marry a FUGLY chick like Disa. Mariel is hot BUT Disa is FUGLY!!!!!! Durin is also a bit of a drama queen by feigning outrage over the table that he COVETS. Durin could have just asked the elves to make him a table instead of pretending that the table was some sacred stone.

Bronwyn is a master sickle warrior but I thought she was the healer picking flowers. Bronwyn also seems to be the leader and Arondir is her elven sidekick/lover.

Elendir might be my favorite character overall since he is sort of a traditional hero. Who do you think is Sauron in disguise? Halbrand is still my frontrunner but I dunno.

[–] alienzen (1931) 2 years ago

It's Halbrand, it was leaked months before the first episode.

[–] papamihel (1616) 2 years ago

Bronwyn is a very good example why the show's creators are talentless hacks.

You can see they actually tried to create an old school real strong woman. Like Sarah Connor or Ripley.
On one hand she is very feminine. She is literally the only person in Southland who is dressed sexy and has well kept hair. She is motherly, protective of her son and the way she behaves around the Elf is... Well, it's like a South American soap.
And the idea was clearly that she - when faced with extraordinary circumstances and danger - steps up and becomes a leader.
Problem is we don't see it. One moment she is disregarded and people seem to be suspicious of her because she's friends with an occupier. Then it's "Who's gonna fight with me?" and they all follow her into battle.
We don't see any growth, we don't see her facing difficult choices. So we don't really care if she lives or dies.