MovieChat Forums > Terminator: Dark Fate (2019) Discussion > Who was the intended audience?

Who was the intended audience?


Seems like this was trying to be all things to all people. Was that a good idea?

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The intended audience were toxic, involuntarily celibate womanbabies.

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I was going to say lesbians, but yours works too.

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Well the dudebro entry of this franchise Terminator Salvation didn't do very well despite both the franchise and theatre box office was in better shape back then, so why not try a different approach?

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The best you can manage is to copy the same insult that has no doubt hurt your feelings, but reverse the gender? Weak. It doesn't even work as an insult that way around.

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Why doesn’t the insult work in the reverse?

Gender swapping is huge these days with movies, why not with insults? Lol.

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Because involuntarily celibacy isn't a problem for the vast majority of women. It's a weak and unoriginal enough insult in its original form, this way around it's meaningless.

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Fans of T2 who now have young kids and dont go to the cinema unless its for a huge event movie and who got burned by last 3 sequels

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Lol what a perfect comment!
So true.

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And the result made everyone angry.

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Seemed to me that it was almost like the all female Ghostbuster shit... I can understand the basic plot of it, but why in the hell did they decide to try and cram in the pseudo terminator as a female? You want to have a hybrid human terminator then at least be logical about it, the hybrid human portion would logically needed to have been the most robust male you could have found not some skarny woman. It simply made her character look like a gimmick to attract the same women that went to the Ghostbusters reboot, oh that's right they didn't show up for that movie... so why did they try to get the nonexistent audience to show up for this movie?

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You want to have a hybrid human terminator then at least be logical about it, the hybrid human portion would logically needed to have been the most robust male you could have found not some skarny woman.


Is this a troll post or something? Terminator parts work just fine regardless if it's attached to a male or female. This is as stupid as the people complaining the why the villain Terminator is Mexican despite the movie takes place in Mexico.

Also there was already a terminator/human hybrid like that in the past. It was played by Sam Worthington in Terminator Salvation, and many people thought he was bland and boring while MacKenzie Davis actually got praised for her performance.

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Well in the movie she has problems surviving because of the amount of strain the terminator parts put on her human body. If that is the case why would you want to use a skarny woman to cram the terminator parts into? You would logically want body that would be better able to deal with the strain. The same amount of strain on a smaller body will always be hard to deal with than the strain on larger body, like the way you have to give more medicine to a larger person than to a smaller one.

In the end the terminator parts aren't the weak link it is the human body and the girlie body is weaker than a fit males would be... same reason you have male and female sporting events, it isn't because the women would destroy the men its the other way around. Stop living in your SJW world and look at reality.

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Well several issues with this logic. The first being the obvious problem is that the movie presents is that being a human/terminator augment isn't desirable. Due to what I'm sure is lack of medicine in the future, being a human augment is a risk in itself, so unless you're in dire need of it, I don't think many people would immediately want to go that route.

Next I'm pretty certain there are scientific evidence suggesting women actually have a higher pain threshold than men. It's primarily their bodies require it in order to go through the child birth phase while men's bodies never naturally have to go through such ordeals.

Finally you're mixing up sport analogies with medical health. While it's true larger folks need more medicine due to the medicine needing to spread out more to have a proper effect, the same can't really be said for ailments. Give the same type of organ failure to 100 different type of men and women, and the men aren't going to fare any better than the women. If anything men tend to have a bigger history of internal issues and failures than women. There's a reason statistically women tend to have a longer life expectancy than men.

EDIT: To further add the sport analogy vs medical health thing. The reason there's divisions in sports is because the organizations like it that way. Don't know about you, but back when I was in regular school and high school, PE puts males and females in the same teams and the results are always interesting. They put weight division in sports too even though that's proven not to be necessary. Also male athletes are far more likelier to use performing enhancing drugs than woman athletes.

Also many male athletes have a tendency to suffer from physical and mental issues, sometimes even death, in the long haul in comparison to even everyday people

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conan you have a couple of good arguments but thomas is totally right here.
Nobody would engineer a cyborg with the intent of making it the strongest possible by picking a female like Mackenzie Davis instead of choosing a male with a Schwarzy type body. It's like picking a Nissan Leaf to trick out for street racing instead of a Mustang.

I liked her, she gave a good performance, but the logic of the script is weak and unbelievable, starting with this point.

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Nobody would engineer a cyborg with the intent of making it the strongest possible by picking a female like Mackenzie Davis instead of choosing a male with a Schwarzy type body.


Except there is no humans in the future that looks like Schwarzenegger. That's all the evil machines pretending to look human who looks like that in the future. The humans in the future in both Dark Fate's future and the original Terminator future were all roughly the same size as Mackenzie Davis with just a slightly wider skeletal structure. Heck Kyle Reese is the same size as Grace with just a slightly wider skeletal structure. Remember the human resistance don't exactly have a stockpiles of food to choose from.

As for your vehicle analogy, with the angle you're using, a better analogy would be using a mustang vs high speed motorcycle to trick out for a street race. If I was the future resistance and I was asked to use up terminator/machine parts for a human augment and I have a choice between someone of Schwarzenegger's size or someone of Natalia Reyes's size, I'll actually choose Natalia. Why? Because that's like asking using 5 lbs of bullet proof material vs 15 lbs of bullet proof material. Using 5 lbs of artificial muscles and hydraulics vs 15 lbs of them, etc. I'll be able to get alot more mileage out of the Natalia size person without having to use up anywhere as much parts.

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It could make sense from an energy efficiency point of view.
I doubt they're in for that kind of efficiency: it's not a factory trying to get the lowest price possible here. It's doctors and surgeons finding the most effective person to upgrade.
How the hell a weaker and smaller person would be easiern than somebody with more room and power to accept the modifications?
Just for the operation sake it's a better choice to go with somebody with a bigger and stronger body.
Check out Young Frankenstein, that's more realistic than your description: bigger is easier when operating on a person.

Your point about humans being generally skinny is fine, but again: with all the soldiers around NOBODY had a better body than her? Really? What are using to fight robots? Harsh language?

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>it's not a factory trying to get the lowest price possible here. It's doctors and surgeons finding the most effective person to upgrade.

Except the doctors and surgeons needs to get the parts from somewhere which I'm guessing is whatever they can scavenge from Legion. So don't see why they would be detracted from using less parts on a smaller individual if it gets the same results.

As for most effective person to upgrade? Well one I think the people needs to volunteer first. So that would reduce the number of candidates. Secondly have you seen the future war scene? Grace was able to save the commander and still fight with several stab wounds in her while the rest of her team was dying. That looks like a good person to upgrade. Also seen Cameron's other works? Previous movie he wrote was Alita Battle Angel which had a small female robot tearing up and beating down robots up to 3 times her size in meelee combat in a civilian body no less because she knew a very effective fighting style. Flashback all the way to 1986 for Aliens 2 and we have Ripley and Vasquez doing better against the Aliens than most of their male counterparts. Vasquez even use a gun and harness bigger than what the male soldiers except Drake used just because she can and it didn't hinder her in the slightest. Even Sarah Connor in this movie beat up 3 cops/agents with her hands literally tied behind her back and in T2 needed 4 guards to restrain her and she wasn't even fully focus for that scene either. If I had those 5 women in my army, I think they would all be great candidates to upgrade and Grace would be the biggest of the 5 ironically.

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conan it's obvious you eat this shit up like it's pepperoni pizza.
I understand your will to accept everything because you're a fan.
I'm debating the logic from an objective pov if I can.
Your points are agreeable and possible, but there's no way a realistic scientist would pick a scrawny woman over a buffed up man for creating a super soldier. Unless they are making a point of "see? we can do it even with a less than ideal subject" or "we want it to be a little girl because it's better for........fill in the reason" or "we don't have any decent candidate, this one will have to do".
I don't recall them using any of these reasons in this quite unrealistic script.

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> Your points are agreeable and possible, but there's no way a realistic scientist would pick a scrawny woman over a buffed up man for creating a super soldier.

Why wouldn't a realistic scientist pick someone like Mackenzie Davis over her male costars for such a treatment? The terminator parts would be doing most of the heavy lifting, and as mention in my other posts, look up the whole calathenics vs weight lifting debate. Even bringing up actors, there's surprises in who is better than who. For example in just Terminator alone big bad Arnold himself admits he rarely does his own stunts, has a long line of health issues including multiple heart surgeries and if you seen Arnold's WWE appearances, it evident he's not a skilled fighter. The original terminator/human hybrid Sam Worthington admits he's not as tough as he looks, and although he likes to do as much of his own stunts as possible, he says he has his limits to what he's capable of pulling off. Mackenzie Davis so far from what I can find had the most gruelling training out of any Terminator actor and for sure had to learn the most skills, and from what I can tell, she nailed it. A lot of the behind scenes footage is actually her doing all the stuff her character does onscreen. It's even more impressive when you consider Mackenzie didn't even have any prior action roles before Terminator. People like Jackie Chan and Jet Li are small dudes, but I doubt anyone is going to deny they aren't physically capable. Speaking of Jackie, the dude admits his costar Michelle Yeoh is his equal physically and some might argue Michelle does crazier things than Jackie. Fast forward today, and I think Michelle actually outlasted Jackie because I can't recall the last film where Jackie had any extensive fight scenes that didn't involve CGI while Michelle did a Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon sequel recently and looks to still be doing her own stunts.

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If I was a scientist, I would think both Michelle and Mackenzie would be a great candidates. Mackenzie seems pretty versatile and adaptable, while Michelle I know has the physical abilities and skills and still seems capable of delivering. Arnold would be out of the question due to his ongoing health issues on top of his lack of combat capabilties. Jackie I would like to think is still a good candidate, but I would question how much he banged up his body over the years. Sam seems somewhat in the middle.

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I don't think it needs an explanation longer than:
males are bigger and stronger than females.

I could kick Mackenzie's ass and I'm no Arnie. Nor a terminator.
Infact, this last movie had the weakest looking terminator ever, even worse than T3, exactly because he looked more like a clerk than a fighter to make her match a bit more believable.
But even he was more intimidating than her.
Michelle Yeoh is a joke compared to Jackie Chan. Who's also not that intimidating to begin with.
I can see that you care a lot about equalling females to males, but it ain't gonna happen dude: I love my dog, but a wolf is always gonna kick his ass.
When something is stronger, it's stronger.
Wishful thinking ain't gonna change that.

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So you're literally talking out of your ass now, and can't even back up any of your points with anything besides opinions.

>When something is stronger, it's stronger.

So if you had a army, it would be the easiest army to beat because you have a one track mind and you'll pick roided out big dudes over actually skilled fighters. Got it.

I can beat a stronger opponent in a freakin video game, real life would be even more hilarious. Also here are the last real life videos I've seen of random men vs women/big vs small stuff, and they don't quite match up with your claim.
woman vs molestor in elevator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpBdGy5BIHU
here's one where a dude who looks over 300lbs attempts to go all UFC on a small girl and still fails to KO her. Could only imagine the outcome if she actually knew how to fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIbbI0I3WQ4
man vs woman again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCMSsXn6Yr8
big dude vs small dude https://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshht0ien68A8z46NoFU
another big dude vs small dude video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxDKRkwyKM0

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Again I can see you're really convinced of your position, so you bring up the few exceptions that confirm the rule.
I'm talking out of my ass as much as you are. Do you really need me to show you some video on youtube where a bigger man beats the crap out of a weaker woman?
I don't think that's necessary now, is it?

The movie clearly shows that against these kind of machines, there's little skill involved to win. You NEED to overpower it, or else you have to run away.
As you could see, it's not really just about skills: they always fight better than the terminator, yet they miss the power to deal any real and permanent damage to it.

Other than being very much in love with the idea that women and men are equal, I don't see much depth to your logic. By your logic, they could and probably should have picked a child: even less material needed for the upgrades etc. Your arguments are valid but are exceptions and they certainly don't hold in a simple minded movie like this one, where the average moviegoer would probably think "why send a skinny girl to do this job?".

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>How the hell a weaker and smaller person would be easiern than somebody with more room and power to accept the modifications?

First should bring up bigger doesn't always equal stronger and better. Most obvious example are when comparing humans to animals. Many animals are smaller than humans, but a lot of them are more powerful than humans in the physical sense. Even among humans, look up the calathenics vs weight lifting debate. This one is interesting where it involves men and women debating on both sides which is better as it's essentially dancers and martial artists vs body builders. Body builders may have bigger muscles than the dancer/martial artists, but it's amazing how much categories the dancer/martial artist are able to match or surpass the body builder in and there is a science to this. Best known example of calathenics is Bruce Lee. There's actually something extremely ironic too about bigger muscles being conceived as stronger.

>Check out Young Frankenstein, that's more realistic than your description: bigger is easier when operating on a person.

I'll have to check out that movie, but isn't that a comedy? Not sure how much real world implications it has. I can flip that argument on it's head and say a slimmer person you don't have to cut through as much flesh to get to the bone and nervous system which looks to be where the implants start from. Not to mention all the blood and IV required during surgery.

>with all the soldiers around NOBODY had a better body than her? Really? What are using to fight robots? Harsh language?

Guns? Explosives? Motor vehicles? That's what it looks like they were all using in the future war scenes in these movies and throughout Salvation. You don't need big muscles to operate those things. Plus you got to be an idiot if you think having big muscles allows you to fight evenly with a terminator. Those things are going to murder a human in meelee combat without any difficulty regardless how big the human is.

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Skynet itself shows good examples of my point. In the future Skynet has massive HK air machines and HK ground units that are like the size of a building. Yet which Skynet units do we see and are told do better in combat? It's the smaller human size terminators that gets the job done. On even just a durability level they're able to withstand explosions and energy blasts a lot better than their HK counterparts without even going into the other categories. Why? Because Skynet can put quality armour and parts in a Terminator and have it be more effective than it can a HK. Put the same amount armour and parts in a HK and that means only a small part of it will be effective and be protected. The huge majority of it you can still shoot up and take it down.

In order to make a HK to the quality of a terminator, it will probably have to sacrifice like 50 terminators for one HK, and that would be a dumb decision for a intelligent machine to do.

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As you could see in the movie, what you said is incorrect.
Skynet uses all sorts of HK and robots. It doesn't just rely on smaller ones. Infact, it seems pretty happy with huge ones that are easy target and energy inefficient etc, but I'm sure they have their tactical and engineering advantage over the small ones (probably, easier to build and stronger against impact, and can be loaded with more weapons and cheaper parts).

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Why that sounds like quite the convincing argument. Hopefully the military will embrace the wisdom and funnel women into all female front line units. As a matter of fact, the nation is missing-out on not including women in the Selective Service Program. All women combat brigades will be a positive boon in the event we go to war with China.

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There's probably not enough women insane enough to even want to join the military at the moment. There's a big difference between a mass army trying to murder you at your home and the media/government trying to trick you to go overseas to attack and murder people who never did anything to you.

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Right, then conscription or prison it is!

:o)

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Is this a troll post or something? Terminator parts work just fine regardless if it's attached to a male or female.


Bigger is inherently stronger, all else being equal. That applies to everything. A bigger actuator can generate more force than a smaller actuator of the same type; bigger bolts/pins/fasteners are stronger than smaller ones of the same material; bigger power sources/supplies generate more power than smaller ones of the same type, and so on. If you want the strongest, most durable Terminator parts possible, you build them as big as you can while still being able to fit in a human, which means you want a big human (an adult male, obviously, and one who's larger than average to boot).

On top of that, a typical man has more stamina than a typical woman (and an exceptional man has more stamina than an exceptional woman), which makes men better suited to being augmented with Terminator parts.

The idea that women are equal (or, in the view of cucks, superior) to men is merely a political/social one. In reality, they are inferior, both physically and mentally. The objectively best person for a physically and/or mentally demanding task is never a woman.

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Well first flaw is that in the bigger is better logic doesn't work for machines especially fictional machines. My desktop computer from 10 yrs ago was massively bigger than the current laptop I'm using, but want to take a guess which one performs massively better than the other? This comes down to what sort of machine parts does the resistance have and who's willing to remove a bunch of their internal parts for Terminator part which I'm sure just the surgery alone is a massive risk.

Secondly assuming the stamina thing is true which I'm going to have to double check because I recall hearing a number of stamina based contests have various women as the champ. But assuming true, what does stamina have to do with the topic? The powercell and terminator parts are going to have that covered.

Finally as I mentioned to that other user, there's a big difference between sports analogies and medical health. Because statistics and medical records show men have a far greater chance of dying from heart failure and men in general have short life spans than women. So that puts a real big hole in your logic. There's many things big muscles don't save you from, internal pain and organ failure being among that list which machine implants reflect much better.

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"Well first flaw is that in the bigger is better logic"

I said, "Bigger is inherently stronger, all else being equal," and there's no flaw in that statement.

"doesn't work for machines"

Yes, it does, and I already explained why.

"fictional machines."

Yes, it works for fictional machines too. Fiction is "like reality unless noted."

"My desktop computer from 10 yrs ago was massively bigger than the current laptop I'm using, but want to take a guess which one performs massively better than the other?"

Is that a joke? What does computer hardware performance have to do with physical strength? The concept does apply to computer performance though, but you obviously can't ignore the "all else being equal" part, which you did by comparing 10-year-old hardware to new hardware. Any CPU design can be made more powerful by making it bigger, because that gives you more room to add more transistors, which may or may not be in the form of more cores. Likewise, any storage device (e.g., HDD, SSD) design can be made to have more storage by making it bigger, for obvious reasons. The same applies to RAM, and every other piece of computer hardware. A bigger motherboard for example, allows for a bigger CPU and/or more CPUs working in parallel.

By the way, your desktop computer was stronger. Drop the laptop on the desktop computer tower, then drop the tower on the laptop; see which one sustains more damage.

"This comes down to what sort of machine parts does the resistance have and who's willing to remove a bunch of their internal parts for Terminator part which I'm sure just the surgery alone is a massive risk."

No, it comes down to the writers trying to be "woke." If the writers were trying to make sense, they would know that the characters would want to send the strongest and most durable protector that they could, which demands the biggest possible Terminator parts, which demands a large male host to accommodate them.

"Secondly assuming the stamina thing is true which I'm going to have to double check because I recall hearing a number of stamina based contests have various women as the champ."

Look at record times for men vs. women in any given marathon. For example, the record men's time in the Boston Marathon is about 15 minutes faster than the record women's time.

"But assuming true, what does stamina have to do with the topic? The powercell and terminator parts are going to have that covered."

Is that another joke? The person still has to do some stuff with their own muscles. It's not just a human head on a 100% Terminator body. Did you even watch the movie? A significant plot point was the augmented chick's stamina problem. After her first fight with the Terminator she was out of breath and after the next fight she was so exhausted that she could barely stand up, and soon passed out in the drug store. Her stamina problem showed up several times throughout the movie.

"Finally as I mentioned to that other user, there's a big difference between sports analogies and medical health. Because statistics and medical records show men have a far greater chance of dying from heart failure and men in general have short life spans than women."

Those statistics are irrelevant in this context, i.e., natural lifespan and the risk of heart failure aren't things worth considering for healthy young adults of either sex.

"So that puts a real big hole in your logic."

No, it doesn't; not even remotely. See above.

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Okay I'm just going to point out the Terminator movies all the way back to T1 been spitting in the face of your logic here. Skynet has these giant machines called ground and air HK units that are like the size of a building while also having human size machines called terminators. From your own logic, the HKs should perform better but which units do are see and are told performs better? That's right the much smaller terminator unit in pretty much all fields. Even on just a basic durability level we know the terminators can withstand explosions and energy blasts better than HKs. Why? Because bigger size = more used up resources. Give the same amount of quality parts a terminator would have to a HK and that would just mean a small part of the HK is performing well and can take damage as good as a terminator. The rest of it can still shoot down like every other HK.

You logic literally only works under the notion there's an infinite amount of resources and everything is the same grade. Considering that's not even the case for Skynet, what makes you think the human resistance has this luxury?

>By the way, your desktop computer was stronger. Drop the laptop on the desktop computer tower, then drop the tower on the laptop; see which one sustains more damage.

That's only because desktops are made out of metal and has a durable shell while laptops are built out of lighter weight carbons and polymers so they'll be easier to carry around. If I had a computer manufacturing factory and used the outer metal/shell for a laptop, not only will that be a durable laptop, but I'll likely be able to make two durable laptops for the price of one desktop.

EDIT: Actually to expand further on this terrible analogy, that would be like saying a 50 ton builder performs better than a 3 ton truck because one crushes the other one better when being dropped from the sky. However when you actually put both to work on the field, the guy with the bolder is going to wish he had a truck to perform his day to day duties.

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Save your breath. Conan is a complete idiot that is too stubborn to simply admit that he is wrong. I wrote off trying to explain anything to him because it is futile, some people are just stupid and too ignorant to be taught anything.

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You literally wrote two short paragraphs that ultimately says big muscles is somehow a indicator how well terminator parts can work in a human, and I was able to punch a crap ton of holes in it with both facts from the movie and facts from real life.

You're the complete idiot who's stubborn.

>I wrote off trying to explain anything to him because it is futile, some people are just stupid and too ignorant to be taught anything.

You can't even get this right. You literally wrote all of ONE response to me and it's the one I mentioned above paragraph. Unless of course Heisenberg is a alt account of your's, in which case, nice try pretending to be multiple people trying to claim your right.

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You seem to lack any skills at reading comprehension.

Not once did I ever even use the word muscles. That is just you trying to put words in other peoples' mouths so you don't look like such an idiot. If you would bother to learn to read what is written instead of what you want to see you might be able to understand what everyone has been trying to tell you, but since you refuse do the world a favor and just piss off.

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>If the writers were trying to make sense, they would know that the characters would want to send the strongest and most durable protector that they could, which demands the biggest possible Terminator parts, which demands a large male host to accommodate them.

No, you're deliberately trying to ignore facts both in the fiction and real life and trying to skewer it based off a small amount of preconceived notions. First you're trying to ignore that being an augment is a risk. Assuming the person survives all those implants across their body, according to Grace herself, when fighting a terminator, you either kill it in the first few minutes or you die. Again even Skynet don't have a infinite amount of resources let alone the humans, so I'm guessing meds would be in short quantities which is why death is frequent for human augments. Not exactly something most sane people wanting to live are going to want to rush into.

Secondly as I told someone else, if I was the human resistance and I had a choice between making someone the size of Natalia Reyes a augment vs someone the size of Arnold a augment, I'll go with Natalia. Why? Because that's like asking to use up 5 lbs of bullet proof metal vs 15 lbs of bullet proof metal. 5 lbs of high grade hydraulics and artificial muscles vs 15 lbs of high grade hydraulics and artificial muscles, etc. I can definitely get a lot more mileage from the Natalia Reyes augment than the Arnold one. Or for a real world comparison, that's like asking mechanics and people who knows how to modify vehicles that they're given a amount of auto parts and either use them for a SUV or a motorcycle to win a street race. I know there's going to be a lot of people who are going to say to go with the motorcycle.

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>Look at record times for men vs. women in any given marathon. For example, the record men's time in the Boston Marathon is about 15 minutes faster than the record women's time.

That's more speed than stamina though. Men would have the advantages in foot races because in general they're taller with longer legs, and anyone knows longer legs = more distance covered in one stride. I'm also certain it's also because women's hips are built bigger with slightly less mobility because they need the space for pregnancy. Even on just speed races, men don't always beat woman in other fields. For example I remember back in the Bejing olympics people were accusing a Chinese female swimmer on being on some performance enhancing drug (even though she looked normal) because she not only beat all the other women's time, she beat all the men's time too. I also remember Ripley's believe it or not had a segment on a female rock climber who regularly competed with men and would beat them so bad it usually takes her male competitors twice the amount of time to reach the top after she already done so.

>Did you even watch the movie? A significant plot point was the augmented chick's stamina problem. After her first fight with the Terminator she was out of breath and after the next fight she was so exhausted that she could barely stand up, and soon passed out in the drug store. Her stamina problem showed up several times throughout the movie.

Yes multiple times. Did you watch the movie? Her stamina wasn't the problem. It was her metabolism and the effects their were causing her organs that was the problem. The terminator parts were directly connected to her motor functions and overly exerting caused her body to overheat and overwhelm her organs. All those drugs she was requesting a the pharmacy? Those weren't energizing drugs, they were stabilizing drugs.

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That's the reason Sarah and Dani threw ice on Grace after Dani noticed she was burning up. It wasn't because she was drained, it was the reverse. Her terminator parts pushed her body too hard and it was overwhelming and overheating her, so they needed some way to stabilize and cool down her body. For real world reference, it's the same as when male athletes take steroids and other enhancing drugs, are able to have a lot of energy one moment then the next moment just collapse on the floor. It has less to do with their bodies being drained and everything to do with their organs being overwhelmed and putting them in some sort of organ failure state. In a augment's case, would probably be like putting a engine in a person, then pushing the engine to the max which causes the engine to overheat in their body and they're doing everything to cool it down.

>Those statistics are irrelevant in this context, i.e., natural lifespan and the risk of heart failure aren't things worth considering for healthy young adults of either sex.

Yes they're very relevant. Considering those terminator implants flat out effects the body's metabolism and other internal parts, people with higher chance of heart failure and short life expectancy because they're organs are more likely to fail are far more likely to die from those terminator implants.

>No, it doesn't; not even remotely. See above.

Yes it does. Not only do you seem to have a terrible notion that people in the future have a infinite amount of high grade terminator parts, but a terrible idea what the terminator parts actually do to the human body and why Grace was going into organ failure in the movie and it wasn't because she was running out of energy.

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"Okay I'm just going to point out the Terminator movies all the way back to T1 been spitting in the face of your logic here."

It's not "my logic," it's a fact. Bigger = stronger, all else being equal. Facts aren't debatable.

"Skynet has these giant machines called ground and air HK units that are like the size of a building while also having human size machines called terminators. From your own logic, the HKs should perform better but which units do are see and are told performs better? That's right the much smaller terminator unit in pretty much all fields. Even on just a basic durability level we know the terminators can withstand explosions and energy blasts better than HKs. Why? Because bigger size = more used up resources. Give the same amount of quality parts a terminator would have to a HK and that would just mean a small part of the HK is performing well and can take damage as good as a terminator. The rest of it can still shoot down like every other HK."

This is the second time you've failed to comprehend the "all else being equal" stipulation. HKs and Terminators are two completely different types of machines designed for two different applications, i.e., apples and oranges. That's not even close to an "all else being equal" comparison.

"You logic literally only works under the notion there's an infinite amount of resources and everything is the same grade. Considering that's not even the case for Skynet, what makes you think the human resistance has this luxury?"

Good grief. The writer only needs to write that the augmented person is a larger than average adult male; done. It makes it more believable because males are more effective combat soldiers, as well as more likely to be combat soldiers in the first place, they have more stamina, and they have more room for augmentation. The writer deciding it should be a chick is arbitrary and lacks verisimilitude. It was only done in the name of "wokeness."

"That's only because desktops are made out of metal and has a durable shell while laptops are built out of lighter weight carbons and polymers so they'll be easier to carry around. If I had a computer manufacturing factory and used the outer metal/shell for a laptop, not only will that be a durable laptop, but I'll likely be able to make two durable laptops for the price of one desktop."

Why did you reply to a side note and ignore the main point? Whatever the reason, consider your tacit concession on that matter noted.

"No, you're deliberately trying to ignore facts both in the fiction and real life and trying to skewer it based off a small amount of preconceived notions. First you're trying to ignore that being an augment is a risk. Assuming the person survives all those implants across their body, according to Grace herself, when fighting a terminator, you either kill it in the first few minutes or you die. Again even Skynet don't have a infinite amount of resources let alone the humans, so I'm guessing meds would be in short quantities which is why death is frequent for human augments. Not exactly something most sane people wanting to live are going to want to rush into."

That doesn't have anything to do with anything. As I indicated above, the writers could have just as easily written the character as a large adult male, and it would have been a lot more believable.

"Secondly as I told someone else, if I was the human resistance and I had a choice between making someone the size of Natalia Reyes a augment vs someone the size of Arnold a augment, I'll go with Natalia."

And the Natalia-sized augment would get mollywhopped by the Arnold-size augment with ease, which means you'd make a stupid choice if the augment needed to protect someone against an adult male-size Terminator. The rest of your paragraph consists of invalid analogies. This is a bodyguard application, not a street race. Florence Griffith Joyner in her prime could probably beat Mike Tyson in his prime in a foot race, but who would make a better bodyguard?

"That's more speed than stamina though. Men would have the advantages in foot races because in general they're taller with longer legs, and anyone knows longer legs = more distance covered in one stride."

No, it's stamina. Marathon runners don't run at anywhere near their top speed. The male record holder for the Boston Marathon, Geoffrey Mutai, is only 5' 7", one inch shorter than e.g., Paula Radcliffe, who's won quite a few women's marathons.

Citations needed for the rest of your paragraph.

(Continued below)

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>This is the second time you've failed to comprehend the "all else being equal" stipulation.

There is no "all else being equal" stipulation here. That's what you're failing to acknowledge and grasp. As mentioned earlier, your logic literally relies on there being a infinite amount of resources where everything is built the same. That's the only time your "all else being equal" stipulation can work, and clearly that's not the case in either real life or in fiction. Terminator fiction included.

>HKs and Terminators are two completely different types of machines designed for two different applications, i.e., apples and oranges. That's not even close to an "all else being equal" comparison.

HKs and Terminators are machines designed with one ultimate goal to kill humans. That's what Skynet designed them all to do in the end. No getting around that. Terminators perform better because Skynet was able to compartmentalize the best of its resources into a small infiltrator unit where there's little room for flaws. Smaller size = less chances for errors to occur and easier to put quality over quantity.

>It makes it more believable because males are more effective combat soldiers, as well as more likely to be combat soldiers in the first place,

Males are more likely to be combat soldiers because if anything, that just shows how stupid men can be. Men in general being more aggressive of the two genders are more likely to do things like engage in fist fights, drive recklessly, commit crimes, etc for some cheap thrill which is what draws them to being soldiers. Most rational people would know how idiotic it is to be a soldier in today's world especially since that not only means you're likely to get yourself killed than other jobs, but requires you to kill people who never did anything bad to you on top of all the horrible living conditions. A smart person would know that's not a job you should get into unless the threat is literally at your doorstep.

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"There is no "all else being equal" stipulation here."

Yes, there is. I'm the one who made the statement that bigger is stronger, and I put that stipulation in there, because that's the only way a valid comparison can be made.

"That's what you're failing to acknowledge and grasp."

Comical Irony Alert

"As mentioned earlier, your logic literally relies on there being a infinite amount of resources where everything is built the same. That's the only time your "all else being equal" stipulation can work, and clearly that's not the case in either real life or in fiction. Terminator fiction included."

You don't have a clue about what you're talking about. It doesn't take infinite resources to make, e.g., a 3/4" diameter steel bolt instead of a 1/2" diameter steel bolt. The 3/4" bolt is inherently stronger because it's bigger and all else is equal (i.e., made of the same steel alloy, same heat treating process, etc.) Likewise, it doesn't take infinite resources to make a larger version of an actuator, using the same design and materials, which is what "all else being equal" means: same design, same materials, the only change is dimensions. The same goes for a power source and everything else.

Again, it's just as easy to write the augmented character as a male in the first place as it is to write it as a female, and it makes a lot more sense as a male.

"HKs and Terminators are machines designed with one ultimate goal to kill humans. That's what Skynet designed them all to do in the end. No getting around that. Terminators perform better because Skynet was able to compartmentalize the best of its resources into a small infiltrator unit where there's little room for flaws. Smaller size = less chances for errors to occur and easier to put quality over quantity."

So an HK can, e.g., walk into a police station and ask to speak to Sarah Connor, and the guy at the desk will think its a human? I've already told you that it's an apples to oranges comparison, which ignores the critical "all else being equal" stipulation. A valid comparison, for example, is a small Terminator (average female size) to a larger Terminator (large male size). Obviously there's a limit to how big it can be and still pass for human, which is a critical requirement. To make the strongest, most durable Terminator you would build it as large as you can while still being able to pass for human, obviously. The next time you type out some apples-to-oranges comparison I'm simply going to dismiss it out of hand, because it's a non sequitur.

"Males are more likely to be combat soldiers"

And more importantly, which you failed to address, they are way better at it than chicks.

"because if anything, that just shows how stupid men can be. Men in general being more aggressive of the two genders are more likely to do things like engage in fist fights, drive recklessly, commit crimes, etc for some cheap thrill which is what draws them to being soldiers. Most rational people would know how idiotic it is to be a soldier in today's world especially since that not only means you're likely to get yourself killed than other jobs, but requires you to kill people who never did anything bad to you on top of all the horrible living conditions. A smart person would know that's not a job you should get into unless the threat is literally at your doorstep."

Are you a chick or a simp? Either way, you're living in a fantasy world, and you can consider your irrelevant and inept attempt at an op-ed piece dismissed.

"Okay before I respond, how do you make posts longer? For some reason my posts are cut shorter than yours when trying to respond."

Type as much as it will let you in one post, then type out the rest in Notepad or whatever. When you're finished, click reply and then immediately click "edit" and paste in the rest of your reply. You have to do that a few times if the post is really long, and eventually you'll still hit a limit even doing it that way.

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"Yes multiple times. Did you watch the movie? Her stamina wasn't the problem. It was her metabolism and the effects their were causing her organs that was the problem. The terminator parts were directly connected to her motor functions and overly exerting caused her body to overheat and overwhelm her organs. All those drugs she was requesting a the pharmacy? Those weren't energizing drugs, they were stabilizing drugs."

Yes, lack of stamina was the problem. The cause of her getting tired out is irrelevant; increased stamina would give extra time before getting tired out regardless of the cause.

"In a augment's case, would probably be like putting a engine in a person, then pushing the engine to the max which causes the engine to overheat in their body and they're doing everything to cool it down."

That's what happens to regular people anyway; it's just an accelerated version of it. Why do you think people start to sweat during physical exertion? It's because their body is generating more heat, and the sweat is to cool it off. Why do you think people tire out quicker on a hot day than on a cooler day? Increased stamina helps regardless of the cause of the heat or how accelerated the process is.

"Yes they're very relevant. Considering those terminator implants flat out effects the body's metabolism and other internal parts, people with higher chance of heart failure and short life expectancy because they're organs are more likely to fail are far more likely to die from those terminator implants."

No, not relevant. Someone being at a greater risk for a heart attack 50 years down the road has nothing at all to do with their current risk, which is negligible.

"Yes it does. Not only do you seem to have a terrible notion that people in the future have a infinite amount of high grade terminator parts, but a terrible idea what the terminator parts actually do to the human body and why Grace was going into organ failure in the movie and it wasn't because she was running out of energy."

Your non sequitur is dismissed.

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Okay before I respond, how do you make posts longer? For some reason my posts are cut shorter than yours when trying to respond.

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>Yes, lack of stamina was the problem. The cause of her getting tired out is irrelevant; increased stamina would give extra time before getting tired out regardless of the cause.

So you clearly did not watch the movie. Okay here, I'll cite exactly what Grace said she needed and what each meds do:

"I need any anticonvulsant" - these are drugs that are stabilizers that helps with calming down epileptic seizures.
"sodium polystyrene sulfonate" - these are drugs used to stablize increased potassium level by helping removing them from the body.
"insulin" - this is a drug that helps prevents blood sugar levels from getting too high.
"benzodiazepine" - basically a form of tranquilizers.

Gee notice a pattern here with all these drugs? They're all polar opposite to a caffeine/adrenaline shot which is what would be needed to help get the stamina up. If it was a stamina issue, she wouldn't be needing meds that would drain her stamina even more.

Speaking from 1st hand experience as someone diagnosed with a chronic illness back in 2011 with a bad history of taking the wrong drugs afterwards, I know exactly what was going on with Grace during those moments. There's been a number of times I started to suffer from organ failure for any number of reasons. Nothing wrong with my stamina as that was fine, but the pain my body was going through made it hard to even stand up, walk or at times even sit up properly because it will aggravate the problem and cause even worse issues. A number of times I blacking out while standing. So I know there was no problem with my stamina during those moments and everything to do with my body and mind pain threshold being pushed to the limit.

I'll answer the rest later.

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"So you clearly did not watch the movie."

Your non sequitur is dismissed.

"Gee notice a pattern here with all these drugs? They're all polar opposite to a caffeine/adrenaline shot which is what would be needed to help get the stamina up. If it was a stamina issue, she wouldn't be needing meds that would drain her stamina even more."

"Drain her stamina even more"? You don't know what you're talking about. It's well known that insulin is commonly (and illicitly) used to increase stamina:

"Insulin also bolsters stamina in middle-distance runners and other track performers by enabling them to load their muscles with glycogen “fuel” before and between events."

And:

"How is an athlete’s performance aided by insulin, a substance more commonly used by diabetics to control their blood sugar? Chiefly by boosting the body’s supply of glycogen, a crucial muscle fuel. As diabetics know well, insulin, which is produced naturally by the pancreas, is a hormone that regulates blood-sugar levels by enabling the breakdown of glucose. The hormone stimulates this process (called glycolysis) by transporting glucose into muscle cells, where it is metabolized. If the muscles are flooded with too much glucose at once, however, they store the excess in the form of glycogen, a complex carbohydrate that provides energy to muscles during physical exertion. The more glycogen an athlete possesses, the longer she can keep her muscles pumping. Insulin is thus popular among endurance athletes, such as cyclists."

As for your anecdote, it isn't relevant, since there's no way for you to establish that your condition was the same as hers. She claimed she increased her metabolism, which means she increased the rate at which food is converted to energy, i.e., she's expending energy at a faster rate. Someone with greater stamina can expend more energy before they are winded than someone who has less stamina, obviously. In other words, if another person was in the exact same situation as her (same augmentations and other conditions) except they had more stamina, they could fight longer before being winded.

In any case, she was winded after her first fight with the Terminator, and that's a stamina issue, by definition.

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So you're ignoring the other 3 meds she mentioned her, huh? As for athletes and their use of insulin.

"Insulin is a hormone made by the pancreas that allows your body to use sugar (glucose) from carbohydrates in the food that you eat for energy or to store glucose for future use. Insulin helps keeps your blood sugar level from getting too high (hyperglycemia) or too low (hypoglycemia)."
https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/type-1-diabetes/what-insulin

Insulin is a stabilizer. It works for athletes because when they drain their blood sugar/glucose supply, it pumps more back into their system.

Considering Grace a) was trying to get meds that all suppressed her body functions b) her body was literally overheating and she first tried to find water to cool it down, c) as she herself said "my metabolism was tune for short, intense burst" which I'm sure doesn't mean suck up her stamina reserves, and d) she was hyperventilating which usually means cardiac arrest of some sort which is due to the heart pumping too much, e) she has a power core for crying out loud, and I doubt that thing is in her for decorations, it's pretty obvious she needed the insulin for the reason diabetics need it where it wasn't just her blood sugar, but likely a bunch of her organs that was being overwhelmed which usually causes organ failure.

>In any case, she was winded after her first fight with the Terminator, and that's a stamina issue, by definition.

When was she winded? The only time I recall her slowing down prior to her body crashing was when she was launched out of the truck and temporarily out of it after hitting the pavement. Outside those examples, she pretty much didn't stop.

Anyways it's pretty late so I'll have to respond to the rest another day.

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Well you two can argue back and forth forever.

If the future in these movies were even remotely based on reality no woman would be frontline infantry or soldier of any kind, not one. That isn't being sexist, it is a biological fact.

We are fighting for the species, woman and children would be protected above all else, only men would be fighting.

Previous wars have shown us this, no amount of diversity and inclusion will ever change biology.

Men are on average bigger.
Men are on average stronger.
Men are on average faster.
Men have larger hearts and lungs allowing the above 3 to be peformed better.
Men are naturaly more aggressive
Men are on average more driven to a single goal

The list goes on.

Now you can argue your point for the basis of this movie but please don't try and put it into real world scenarios. If there really were Terminators or Hybrids they wouldn't pick a woman, it wouldn't even be a consideration.

History and biology tells us this. If that was not the case how come one woman has never passed special forces training and entry exams, ever.

Just pointing out facts but please continue arguing

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"So you're ignoring the other 3 meds she mentioned her, huh?"

I don't need to address the other 3, because you said they would all "drain her stamina even more" and that they were all the "polar opposite" of drugs that increase stamina. Pointing out that insulin is used to increase stamina is all that's needed to confute your assertion.

As for athletes and their use of insulin.

"Insulin is a hormone made by the pancreas that allows your body to use sugar (glucose) from carbohydrates in the food that you eat for energy or to store glucose for future use. Insulin helps keeps your blood sugar level from getting too high (hyperglycemia) or too low (hypoglycemia)."
https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/type-1-diabetes/what-insulin

Insulin is a stabilizer. It works for athletes because when they drain their blood sugar/glucose supply, it pumps more back into their system.


I already posted quotations about why insulin works to increase stamina.

Your next paragraph, full of baseless assertions and speculation, is irrelevant, but I will point out that cardiac arrest doesn't mean what you think it means. Cardiac arrest means the heart has stopped functioning ("cardiac" referring to the heart and "arrest" meaning "a stoppage or sudden cessation of motion"). Had she gone into cardiac arrest she would have collapsed and died, unless someone quickly got her heart started again.

"When was she winded?"

Directly after her first fight with the Terminator, as they were leaving the factory where the fight took place, she was trying to catch her breath. Listen to the way she says "Grace. My name is Grace."

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your mother

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I haven't seen the film yet...

Just a broad demographic point: I'm assuming white males 25-54?

Considering the box office results vs the credits, I'm not surprised from the outcome.

I get what the studio was doing then.

Diversify...

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