is it wrong of me..


to flat out LOVE that annoying teen john conner/ed furlong got blown away. by a T2 style Arnie no less

like BOOM hes down he not getting up from that..then BOOM again. johns dead baby.. johns dead..

that was the best part of the movie! but everyone just wants to bitch and moan about it!

you go to the movies to get Shocked and seeing the 'original' john conner (not fake john conner like stahl or bale or the apes guy) get fubar'd as T2 Sarah goes full on mental hospital was shocking and fun! like 'wooah! wtf?! they really did that!'

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the original john conner (not fake john conner like stahl or bale or the apes guy) get fubar'd was shocking and fun! like 'woow! wtf they really did that!' "

no, they did not, if was all CGI. this one was even faker than stahl and bale


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Stahl was not John Connor. A wimp. Totally the opposite of John's personality.

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I didn't really like John Conner from terminator 2 when I saw it as a junior higher myself. I don't feel he ever really grew as a charatcer I always would imagine him getting splattered and stuff but I don't think I would ever have accepted it as cannon if it actyually did happen on screen.

I don't know why Hollywood insists on killing off old heroes rat her then just letting them wonder off screen. For example John connor could have gone off to do his own thing while this movie focuses on another story but nope. Hollywood writers seem to think its more meaningful to slaughter charactrers as if thats the only way to "Start a fresh story". Maby hollywood will eventually learn that the largest part of their audience will most likely be the older fan base.

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By the time Hollyweird figures that out, they won't have any movie series left to destroy.

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I figured they killed him off mainly to avoid having to cast a 5ft 5 drug addled Furlong as the adult John Conner (instead have him 'cameo' as his near T2 age). or having to cast yet another actor as JC - like the 5th or 6th actor (unless had someone had taken a look at Bales T4 contract and gone 'hey bale signed up for 3 movies he only did 1' and forced him to appear in DF lol)

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They killed him off because they wanted the character completely gone and I don't think it had anything to do with Eddie's personal problems.

John's character could have been in the background story w/o us ever actually seeing him, or another actor could have play the part. I wouldn't have had any problem with that but no, CAMERON decided it was necessary for him to die just so the path was clear for Dani to become the leader. Such crap. I'm female and I'm so tired of putting women in roles "just because it's time for a woman to play this part" mentality.

If Hollywood wants more women in assertive roles, then FGS, come up with something original for them and stop messing around with existing story lines and characters.

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Thank you for saying this 10200.

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Plus I'll add they've had strong women in movies for 5/6/7 and more decades. And we've LOVED so many of those movies. I'll just throw out Alien(1979) for one, one of my all time faves.

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Why does everyone keep repeating this blatant lie? The script was written without John in mind. If John was written into the script and they didn´t want Furlong they would have just replaced him. The script usually comes first in the movie-making process then the actors come second unless you are huge star when the script might get written for you, which Eddie isn´t. James Cameron wrote Aliens featuring Ripley without ever having made a deal with Sigourney.
So please stop repeating this nonsense that Eddie was out of shape and that´s why they wrote him out.

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Agreed - basically, the kid didn't seem to show any qualities that would at least hint at him turning into a highly intelligent/ruthless leader of the resistance. The dude in T3 didn't fare much better. That's what I call poor writing.

The chick in the dark fate.... while the movie was crap, they did try to compensate for the crappy prodigy kid scenario by giving this chick ultra fearless characteristics 'we make our stand now!' (even the robot chick from the future was like - WTF is wrong with this chick?). I mean, if she is so mental now, it shouldn't be surprising that she'd turn into a psycho leader in the future, though I'd argue they kind of overdid it here - there wasn't any intelligence in her calls - she only showed stubborness and inability to understand that sometimes delaying the fight might be a wise move.

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I liked Furlong in T2. John was supposed to be 10 years old - just a kid and written that way. He had lived most of his life hanging out with shady characters and had a mother who was a criminal and considered to be mentally ill. He was street smart and a quick learner. I thought he came off as very intelligent - what indicated he wasn't? Ruthless - he would have to be psycho to be ruthless at 10. He was much more grounded than Sarah and reigned her in - no small feat. Judgement day hadn't yet happened in T2 , so expecting to see the same John before that occurred and what he turned into later is not a realistic expectation for the character, IMO.

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I suppose you're right - perhaps expecting any hints of greatness from a 10 year old was a bit much, given that he didn't even hit puberty. In T3 - the older Jonh still came off as being on the wimpy side though.

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Completely agree with you about Stahl in T3 - totally miscast.

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I literally agree with every single word you said on this thread. Loved John in T2. I could see him becoming the future leader of the resistance. Stahl however, what a JOKE.

I haven't seen DF yet, I know I've been spoiled throughout this thread, no worries. I knew what I was getting myself into. I think the best continuation of the terminator franchise after T2 was the show Sarah Connor Chronicles. Did a great job of expanding the universe and answering questions.

Like...why just send one? Well, they didn't. They sent many who were all putting pieces in place to takeover. Beautiful show.

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[deleted]

I've always thought that The Empire Strikes Back would have been a much better movie if they had killed Luke right away on Hoth in the opening minutes... said no one ever.

Yeah, totally disagree with you.

John Connor's presence was what made the first two movies work. In the first one we only see a glimpse of him, but Kyle Reese's admiration and loyalty to him was the driving force behind his determination to overcome his opponent. Reese's death was so hard because you understood Connor's sacrifice even if he wasn't present.

The heart and soul of T2 was the three way relationship between Sarah, John and the T800.

This line from the movie said it all:
"Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice."

If it wasn't for that three way relationship T2 would be only remembered like a Michael Bay movie... you enjoy all the 'sposions' while you're watching it, but forget it within 48 hours.

When I read that they killed off Connor within the first few minutes of the movie I lost all interest in seeing it. If they were determined to kill off the character, they should have given his death some meaning. I think fans might have accepted that.

Stupid call on Miller's part. My guess is he was a bit full of himself, and decided he was going to do it this way to fully separate himself from Cameron's story. A kind of F U to Cameron...

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Ironically, you're own reply contains the answer to what they could have done with the character. As you mentioned, Connor starts off T2 as an annoying teen who really doesn't want to assume responsibility for his eventual fate.

In this movie, we should have seen Connor's evolution into the battle-hardened vet that we see in T1 and T: Salvation.

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John Conner wasn't in T1 at all not even a glimpse.

it was Cameron idea to kill off JC as he said in an interview few days ago.

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My bad... yes, he physically doesn't appear as an older man til T2. My original point still stands.

I've read articles attributing the idea to both Miller and Cameron. Miller has said that he figured Connor's character was done since he was no longer humanity's savior. The events of T2 meant that Skynet never comes into existance. Audiences wouldn't want to see him as (paraphrasing as best I remember) an accountant or something else so mundane.

Miller's explanation is illogical. If T2 changed events so that Skynet no longer existed (Miller's explanation, not mine) in the future why were T-800s still arriving? Who was sending them? (I haven't seen the movie, this is the argument put forth by some on line reviews).

Plus, who sez Connor has to live out an ordinary life? Considering what he's gone through and where he came from, I don't see that happening at all. He could never be 100% sure that Skynet wouldn't become a fact and would likely become a trained warrior just as his mother did to stay ever on guard. The fact that Miller couldn't envision a way to use Connor says a lot about his lack of imagination and understanding of these characters.

There were reports that the two butted heads about the story. My guess is that Connor's death was the result of Miller's insistence for my reasons above, and that Cameron agreed... either begrudgingly, or because the studio over rode him. (If it truly was Cameron's idea then he has completely lost his bona fides as the creative force behind this series...)

It's all speculation on my part. Whoever came up with the idea as filmed... it was dumb and likely cost them fans.

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the DF T800 was sent back by skynet b4 it was destroyed.

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Miller's quote:
“Sarah changed the past, which changed the future. So that future where John was the leader of humanity no longer happens. He’s just this man who has missed his moment in history. What are you going to do? Is he going to be an accountant? Is he going to be working in a bank?

“Any of those is unsatisfying when his real destiny was to be this super soldier who leads humanity. So all those reasons led us to do what we did.”

It wasn't destroyed. It never came into existence as that future was successfully erased by the events at the end of T2. So where are the T800s coming from that arrive to kill John Connor?

More explanation here...

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29736143/terminator-dark-fate-franchise-plot-hole/

It would have to so since the new Terminator model comes from a different AI that arises in the new timeline they are on. You can't logically have one now deleted timeline intersecting with the actual timeline.

I'm not an expert in the Hollywood Rules of Time Travel though.

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Well this is what happens when you have poor writing and people trying to change an already convoluted time line. Talk about the consequences of someone's actions - nobody really thought this out or they would have realized their "logic" was full of holes. They made this movie for everyone except Terminator fans and therein lies the problem.

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exactly. you nailed it

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Obvious troll, it's obvious

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I've always hated Furlong in almost everything he's been in. He's just so fuckin' whiny all the time, and especially so in T2.

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Loved T1, saw it in the theater.

Seeing T2, when they turned Sarah into a complete dyke single mother with snot-nosed kid, I said, 'I'm out.'.

I looked forward to T2 through the entire late 80s, a whole bunch of directions they could have gone, and they landed with the 90s version of 'woke'.

I think I've caught a few of the others on streaming the past 10 years, but T1 was the only actual Terminator movie to me.

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