Lots of people have complained that the film was too slow or boring. I highly disagree. I think the most that should've been shaved off is like 5-10 minutes absolute max. I never at any point lost interest in the story or found myself looking at my watch. When it ended, I actually said "oh, I guess it's over already!" Marty is a master at long movies. I loved Beau Is Afraid but that movie felt much longer than this one, despite being 30 minutes shorter.
Unfortunately, I was disappointed in the film. And you can count me among those who thought that it was slow, too long, and meandered and dragged for much of its run time.
Also, as a piece of entertainment, part of its issue is that it's a film that is largely devoid of any heroes. There are villains and there are victims, but not much in the way of heroes, and it can be difficult to get invested in a story like that.
Apparently in the earlier stages of planning, Marty was going to have Leo play one of the FBI agents who comes in and helps to solve the murders and let the investigation be the focus of the story--an aspect of the story that gets relatively little attention in this version--and frankly I think he should've stuck with that. While I'm sure that would've drawn criticism for focusing on the "white savior," the fact of the matter is that in real life it WAS white FBI guys who came in and resolved the situation, and I think that going that route would've made for a much more entertaining movie.
I would think that an old-school filmmaker like Marty is always looking to entertain with his work, even if he might also like to do other things as well.
And like I said, I think it COULD'VE BEEN a more entertaining movie, while still sticking to the facts of the story, but he would've needed to go with his original impulse to focus on the FBI investigation.
True, giving information to viewers doesn’t have to be boring.
But crime films are already ten a penny.
Just learnt a new saying...in my language it's "sand by the sea". 🏝️
I actually like Scorsese's approach to shed light on the human drama behind such murders. And the terrible feeling when you can't get justice and live in constant fear.
This coupled with the culture of American Indigenous people can't go wrong here.
We're crazy about Native American stories.
However, I've only seen the trailers so far and will check in which theaters the movie plays and which 'victims' can put up with me for more than 3.5 hours. ☺
That's the problem. I don't believe any movie should just be "eat your veggies, do your homework" unless it's actually made to show in a high school history class or something. And that's what this seemed like all too often: a classed-up series of historical reenactments, one damn thing after another, without feeling like a real *movie* with dramatic arcs or themes other than "racism bad".
Even in a "high school history class" it should be interesting and exciting.
We learnt most from that history teacher, who was also a great storyteller (true stories, not fairy tales). Nobody played cards or sinking ships under the table.
I think as a series of vignettes illustrating a historical story, it would be reasonably interesting. But it doesn't really have a cohesive throughline as a movie per se.
Yes, you know, I was certain I was feeling something about the movie but I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but I think you identified it: It doesn't really feel like "a movie." It feels more like we're given a look at a series of events rather than a cohesive narrative with a proper dramatic arc.
I'm a bit surprised by the overwhelmingly-positive critical reception because surely the critics also noticed this.
I really wanted to like this film, especially since Marty is 80-years-old and undoubtedly getting near the end of his career, but I'd actually say that it's near the bottom of the list out of all the Scorsese movies that I've seen.
Agreed. I think unfortunately critics feel sheepish about pointing out these issues because the movie explores a Serious and Important Issue (racism bad). Notice that the main criticism you do see pop up is that it is too focused on DiCaprio's character and not enough on his Native wife. To say that three and a half hours of straightforward and dramatically inert reenactment of this Serious and Important Issue is not interesting cinematically would open them up to taking a ton of heat they don't want to deal with.
"Also, as a piece of entertainment, part of its issue is that it's a film that is largely devoid of any heroes. There are villains and there are victims, but not much in the way of heroes, and it can be difficult to get invested in a story like that."
Utter rubbish. It is not essential to have a hero in a story. It's not about good guys and bad guys.
Many, many movies don't have heroes, and can still be good movies.
Take Scorceses own Good fellas...some of the most despicable characters ever, no heroes. And yet its almost a masterpiece.
I see this type of criticism levelled at movies a lot, from people who seem to want their movies laid out simply, with heroes and villains. I find it such an old fashioned view.
And often such people decide the movie is bad, because there are no heroes or sympathetic characters.
Maybe they should stick to watching old westerns, with cowboys with black hats and white hats.
Well I am a bit of an old fashioned kind of guy, so perhaps there's something to your comment about it being an "old fashioned" view.
However, you could perhaps switch-out "hero" for "protagonist" in some cases, such as Goodfellas. I'll agree that it has no "heroes," but the audience undoubtedly sympathizes with Henry Hill, gets caught up in his journey, and would like to see him ultimately succeed in his world of mobsters and mobster happenings. So you still have a central character who is likable and appeals to the audience, a character to root for and to hope succeeds.
In Flower Moon, you can't say that the Natives--or more specifically the character of Mollie--are the protagonists, because they do not occupy that space in the story. They are the victims and have no hope of succeeding by their own hand. And while Leo's Ernest is sometimes vaguely sympathetic, certainly we know that we can't root for him. And so the characters that ultimately fill the protagonist space in the story are the FBI agents, but they are mostly-nameless side characters who get little screen time and who are only directly focused on for about 35 or so minutes out of a 2 hr 35 minute movie.
As I mentioned earlier, Scorsese's original idea was to cast Leo as an FBI agent and have him be the story's protagonist, and I think that if he had done that a better film would've resulted.
I can't agree that Henry Hill in Goodfellas is someone the audience root for. He behaves appalingly to his wife. He lies, cheats and steals. He has no remorse or guilt for anything he does...until he gets caught.
Henry Hill is certainly a problematic character, but I do think that it's easy to root for him. This doesn't mean that his behavior is excusable, but we hope he gets better and we don't ever think that he's beyond redemption.
In his case, I think it helps that we are with him from childhood and we see how he, as a kid, gets swept into the mob life. And I think throughout the film we're also judging him against his fellow mobsters. He's at least not a total maniac like Pesci's character.
I agree. I preferred The Irishman as a film, but I found the pacing of this one much better. It may have helped seeing this one in theatre vs streaming at home for The Irishman.
You'll also love this movie.
I watched it last week and liked mostly the old cars of that time and the owl. 🦉♥
The sad crime story is well told and with no doubt Scorsese, DiCaprio and De Niro are great.