The fight between Hawkeye and Black Widow.
Oh wow, that scene was very hard to watch. I'm not a fanboy, not by a long shot. I think I've seen 8 or 10 of the 22 movies. Their little tussle was a serious tear jerker. It was an excellent cinemetic moment.
This was sadder than Tony's sacrifice. Talk about being there at the perfect time. Tony picked the short straw.
You wuss...🙄
shareAlmost
I agree. This was more sad than Tony passing away in the end. IMO the saddest moment in the film.
shareIt was annoying because we all knew what was going to happen and which one would die.
shareDid you know for sure?
I would've picked Natasha for any number of reasons (red on her ledger, paying back Clint for saving her, obsession with the quest, etc.)
BUT
She supposedly has a film greenlit for 2020, so I assumed she could NOT die
I didn’t know she would die. I was rather shocked.
shareI thought it had to be Hawkeye, because he loves his wife now, not Natasha, but maybe she still loved him. Plus she had her own movie on the way. It was a shock.
sharehttps://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21650662&postcount=704
My personal opinion is that this is a sign that Natasha Romanov isn't really dead in the minds of the writers. She's only dead in the way that Phil Coulson, Loki, Gamora, Bucky Barnes, Steve Rogers, Nick Fury, Spiderman, Black Panther, Dr Strange, Groot, Nick Fury again, Bucky Barnes again, are dead - ie dead until they bring them back to life.share
Agree it was really annoying. Not at all emotional. Quite frankly, both could have gone and not tear would have shed from my eyes.
Tony/IM on the other hand, I was very emotional. There were other scenes which were quite emotional for me too.
My Favorite scene in the film. Acting from both was tremendous
shareSince Hawkeye had a wife and kids that he lost and needed to get back I was thinking it would be Nat as soon as that scene started. I'd have been upset if Hawkeye died and then his wife and kids came back to a dead father situation.
I liked Natasha but she was the one with no ties. It was logical for her to perish.
agreed, I just hope her film doesn't end with her resurrection - that'd cheapen this scene IMHO
shareI thought it was extremely stupid.
To get the stone you have to kill the person you love the most.
Neither of those characters killed the other. They wanted to commit suicide and finally one did commit suicide.
There was no desire to kill anyone. They did not see the other person are the one they loved the most.
BW would have had to love herself the most to achieve the goal, but then she would be dead.
The whole scene was a giant stupid plot hole that ignored all the rules from the last film.
You have to sacrifice, not kill... allowing the other to be the sacrifice WOULD be a sacrifice to them. This is why they fight to each save/stop the other.
I know its hard to get out of game theory mentality, but they were not fighting for opportunity, they were each fighting to keep the other alive.
The subtlety is lost on some.
I have to disagree. In infinity war, it was specifically said that you have to sacrifice that which you love most. As in you have to be the one to willingly take the action. It seems to be a test of will. Standing back while another sacrifices herself will not satisfy the strict wording of the rules. And if you look at the purpose (test of will), Barton clearly failed that too. I could be wrong though (does he let her go or does she push herself off? I can’t remember. This would be very important in considering who did the sacrifice).
Further it has to be the one you love most. I doubt Hawkeye loved widow most. It can be said that perhaps after his family, he does love her most and since his family is gone, she’s the default “love most” person. But the first part still fails if he didn’t let her go as I explained above.
Another way that this would’ve worked out is if widow secretly loved herself most. But then she would be awarded the soul stone and not Barton.
The other way around this is the other rule that’s flying around; that is you simply need to exchange a soul for a soul (doesn’t need to be something you love most). In this case, they should’ve just thrown red skull down.
Having said all that, I still thought this was one of the most powerful scenes in an excellent film.
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When both were dangling from the cliff, Hawkeye was holding Natasha. Then she kicked off the cliff wall and fell to her death.
shareThis. Hawkeye didn’t give up that which he loved. Black Widow committed suicide. That was one of the few things that bothered me.
You have to LOSE that which you love. It does not say kill. While the term sacrifice often implies action, it doesn't require it.
shareBut she made the sacrifice not him. Doesn't that imply she should have gotten the stone? That would have been weird if he comes back to top of cliff and she's standing there with it in her hands.
shareHe lost her. He loves her, though not in romantic sense. Thus he suffered from the sacrifice.
shareYup, after reading this, I agree with you bro..
shareTony HAD to do it. The gauntlet was his design, and only he knew of his backup glove and his "pass the stones" prtotcol.
shareNatasha dying made sense because Hawkeye's family would be back after one of them used the Gauntlet. Natasha wanted him to be alive instead of her because of that.
shareBut he is a mass murderer...
shareYeah. The writers seemed to just gloss over that fact. It would screw him over.
shareI guess Nat used to be an assassin and did at one stage state that she still had red in her ledger - so perhaps she is not much better a person than Hawkeye.
Hawkeye was always a pretty dumb addition to the saga anyway.