The “girl power” - Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Would you have the same complaint about overdone Masculism/"man-power" if every one of those was a man doing the overpowering/takeovers?

If not, then you have bias which you do not consciously note (FYI, superhuman characters need not be limited by gender the way female muscular development differs from male development).

If you claim you would have the same complaint, then I would not believe that answer unfortunately.

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[–] Galactus03 (4373) 6 years ago

I don't think he minds...it's the way it's done in these films.

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[–] mooville (41) 6 years ago

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Would you actually be able to name a title where you felt that there was a forced "man-power" scene with a bunch of dudes in it taking pictures of themselves during some high-stakes climatic battle scene in the movie?

That's irrelevant, I was only asking about the comparison... BUT this kind of scene is tough to think of because WE most likely wouldn't "notice" it sticking out.

But yes I'm pretty damned sure these scenes have been done because the "girl power" scene is aping it.

The best comparison here is actually people constantly tearing down Rey in Force Awakens as "overpowered" for doing many of the EXACT same things Luke did in the original trilogy, and in fact not doing as well as Luke did.

I mean these pigs can't even handle Rey being able to pilot a ship... in a universe where a ship equals a car.... without asking "When did she learn to fly?" Meanwhile they never asked this about Luke and never asked why Luke got to fly an X-Wing against the Death Star even though he'd never flown an X-Wing and had never flown in battle.

Ask these questions and the horribly biased excuses for Luke just start pouring out.

so try not to act so stupid and play the stupid card that I always see you playing on these boards. Or maybe you're just a child and I shouldn't be giving you enough credit to recognize common sense

YES!!! I've got a little snowflake troll crybaby sock account with an anti-Frogarama agenda AND I LOVE IT! This kind of angry passion is PERFECT and it shows that I'm hitting the right nerves with the right people, it is FLATTERING to me! It always has been too, because you reactionary simpletons used to do this to me on IMDb all the time, making me feel like some kind of message board celebrity.

Did you know I've been stalked on Facebook by IMDb scum like you? It's hilarious and so pathetic.

So yes, continue posturing yourself as the ultimate in maturity while hilariously calling me childish names like you're a middle school nitwit.

You've GOTTA be a Trump fan, you have that same "absent" mentality, insecure pride, and blindness to your own hatred.

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[–] mooville (41) 6 years ago

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

LOL try and educate when all you're doing is throwing out random complaints? Then "referring" to WINNING ARGUMENTS of yours that NEVER SHOW UP LOL.

You haven't said a THING of substance, you moron. PLEASE move on with your insecure whiny bullshit and just ditch this COWARDLY little sock account of yours.

Get lost.

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[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

Luke lost against Vader and got his hand cut off, and that was after he had training. He only beat Vader in the third film. And Vader didn't really want to kill his son. How is that the same as Rey beating Ren in her first film with zero training?

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[–] ExTechOp (2770) 6 years ago

Kylo's no Vader, plus he'd just been gut-shot by Chewie's overpowered bowcaster

Whatever one's complaints about Rey, I think J.J.Abrams did a decent job of nerfing Kylo at that point

How else can one explain Finn tagging him even once during their cat & mouse lightsaber "duel"?

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

plus he'd just been gut-shot by Chewie's overpowered bowcaster

Thanks... I literally struggle to remember all the ways Kylo was reduced before his fight with Rey, but it was still not enough for the girl haters.

The way they lie and remove all context about Rey is just sickening. They also do it with their claims of her being perfect, removing the fact that she screws something up in most of the sequences she's a part of, almost killing everyone (like on Han's freighter), getting herself caught by wandering away from the group at Maz's castle, and then her captivity slowing down Starkiller attack.

Hell, she had stuck around on Jakku for most of her life mindlessly waiting for her family to return when it's obvious they were not coming.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

See, RIGHT HERE you are saying that Rey HAS TO BE measured against a male when it comes to fighting ability.

You even exclude another male: Finn. Finn actually got in a hit against Kylo, held his ground with a lightsaber for a bit, and you don't care.

That right there is enough to point out how you consider men to be the default.

You also don't care that Rey did not defeat Kylo; That Rey had fighting skills already, unlike Farm Boy Luke; That Rey only beat Kylo thanks to the Force; That Rey lost to Kylo repeatedly before beating him.

What's MOST hilarious is that Luke beat Vader on the second lightsaber fight of Luke's life, yet LUKE WAS NEVER TRAINED IN LIGHTSABER FIGHTING, NEVER PRACTICED IT, and Vader was supposed to be THE BEST.

Seriously you have no clue the kinds of internal assumptions and blind eyes you ignore.

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[–] Galactus03 (4373) 6 years ago

Totally agree. I don't mind this type of stuff happening organically...but this was so forced and silly. Starting to get tired of the heavy handedness of it all.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Starting to get tired of the heavy handedness of it all.

Interestingly, this is essentially the same complaint feminists have about the presumption of male dominance/superiority.

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[–] Galactus03 (4373) 6 years ago

So what is wrong with some balance and an organic way of doing it???

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Sorry but thats always one of the go-to responses from people who have benefitted from historic social presumptions... little or no concern for balance until the insecurity bred by privilege begins to worry about the future prospects of that privilege.

Then suddenly it's "Hold on now let's aim for balance."

Its a disingenuous notion that exists solely to erase the issue so that it can continue to be ignored.

Nothing wrong with balance as long as it was already in place. When its not, tipping often has to be aggressive.

Physical balance is the same, you can't just stand upright after losing balance, you have to overcompensate in the opposing direction.

Me = White male, 41.

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[–] Galactus03 (4373) 6 years ago

So in other words because of the sins of the past, balance and organic-ness has to suffer now??? And we have to do it this way for so many years now? Is this how we balance the scales now??

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

So in other words because of the sins of the past, balance and organic-ness has to suffer now???

Balance and organic-ness was already suffering. That's the point! THERE WAS NO BALANCE.

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[–] Galactus03 (4373) 6 years ago

No shit. But in the quest for it, does it need to be the other way around for 50 years?? Is this what you are saying?

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[–] sut6432 (2908) 6 years ago

Jesus Christ with the privilege bullshit.

Just another hypocritical generalization thrown around based on ones color, gender, etc.

You are being the exact thing your political views claim to be against.

How the hell do you know what people have gone through??? Any of them. Black, White, women, ANY of them. You are generalizing that a certain group of people have it harder than another, instead of looking at individuals.

You're a hypocrite. I'm sure out there somewhere in the vast universe a black woman was born into more money than some "privileged" white man who has to bust his ass for everything he has, and I'm sure out there somewhere a white woman was giving every advantage over a black man...we can speak in generalizations all day, but it's just better to call you a ridiculous self righteous hypocrite, who would make one hell of a extremist bleeding heart politician by the way.

I can see your slogan now: "YOU ARE ALL VICTIMS OF OTHER PEOPLES' PRIVILEGE! A vote for me means you can blame everyone else for your problems for the rest of your life. It's not your fault...it's everyone else's. And also, free shit for everybody!!!"

Fuck the privilege generalization argument. I'm done with it.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

"You are being the exact thing your political views claim to be against."

What are my political views?

"How the hell do you know what people have gone through??? Any of them. Black, White, women, ANY of them."

I listen to them instead of making up whatever I want to believe.

You'd be better off considering others instead of deciding that you know all. Also might want to learn a little about history and society, because you don't sound like you have much experience honestly.

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[–] sut6432 (2908) 6 years ago

You listen to them???

All of them???

And out of all of them, are they all 100% trustworthy??? Are your obvious biases considered? Do you look at any other viewpoints before making your decisions, or just jumped to conclusions after you talked to "them?"

Wow, you must be a god in your little world of generalizations.

I will never claim to know it all. I just know better than to lump groups of people into specific categories (in your case, who is privileged and who isn't). I try to judge them on an individual basis.

I don't know your political views, but from reading other posts when we have crossed paths I see you as extremely liberal to a fault.

I'm not naive enough to say that discrimination doesn't exist, because it has forever, in ALL ways, shapes, and forms. I'm just never going to judge how hard or easy a person has had it in today's world based on race or genitalia. If this was 1862, yeah, you'd have a point. In 2019, not so much.

Have a good day. I'm glad you enjoyed the ridiculous "girl power" scene, because poor little Brie Larson and company are so held back by us "privileged" individuals.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

"I don't know your political views"

That's right.

"but from reading other posts when we have crossed paths I see you as extremely liberal to a fault."

Extremist Social Liberal, Extremist Fiscal Conservative. So you did get it partly right, kudos.

The rest of your post is basically just you feigning ignorance of history and social issues and other people.

Not interested in your substance-free bitching, which is all you're doing.

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[–] sut6432 (2908) 6 years ago

If you're not interested, I know I'm doing something right.

Hopefully you learn to view people as individuals instead of lumping them into groups.

Have a good day.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Frogarama, this may seem glib but two wrongs do not make a right.

You can't say that because white straight men have, wrongly, been on top for Millennia that it's now time for them to go to the back of the queue.

We're all individuals, and we should aim to treat everyone as individuals, rather than representatives of their race or gender.

Are you telling me that by insisting women or people of colour get automatic preference now, it would undo all the historic evils done to women and people of colour? Because that would only make sense if every identity group shared a hive mind.

By the way, this has nothing to do with Avengers: Endgame and a clumsy, but ultimately inconsequential, 'girl power' moment.

It's simply a direct response to your suggestion that we combat systemic unfairness with aggression, or that balance is a terrible goal to aim for.

Balance, fairness and equality should be the one and only goal for everyone.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

"Frogarama, this may seem glib but two wrongs do not make a right."

Well, our entire Justice System is predicated on the notion of wrongs making right. Warfare is predicated on that, often. It's just part of the world, I don't like it either.

"We're all individuals, and we should aim to treat everyone as individuals, rather than representatives of their race or gender."

I agree, and that's what I do personally. As Ghandi said, we must be the change we want to see in the world, and I live by that.

I have no control over greater society obviously, so I simply observe and report.

C'est la vie!

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[–] BillySlater (4241) 6 years ago

Wanda already proved how badass she was when she held off Thanos plus 5 infinity stones while simultaneously destroying Vision´s stone. If anything she was under-powered in this. Captain Marvel is overpowered to the point of absurdity she is as powerful as Ironman without a fucking suit but you pretty much have to blame that on her own movie.

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