Where did this doppelganger come from? The long-haired deep-voiced doppelganger had already been established, but Dougie came out of nowhere appearing at the precise moment he became relevant in the exchange. It seems we're missing back-story on this character, or did I miss it?
shareSomeone on Reddit theorized that Dougie was created by Bob... so he could avoid the exchange that would put regular Cooper back in his proper body. They thought maybe the assassins were outside his house to take out Cooper so Bob could stay in the regular world. I'm not sure what Dougie is... I'm reminded of Heaven Can Wait... where Warren Beatty was taken erroneously and then eventually gets to inhabit a new body without his mind. I never got how that was any different than dying... but that's another story. My question is whether Dougie looks like Cooper... Would Gordon and Albert recognize him? Or is he just a placeholder body like the one Beatty ended up with that doesn't look like him to non viewers.
Bob still seems to be in the original Cooper's body... and all I know for sure is Dougie has Cooper's suit and room key.
I agree with this. Bob is inside the real Cooper. Dougie is some kind of simulacrum that Bob made to avoid being taken back to the Black Lodge. Now the real Cooper is back, but he's in a new version of his old body which is why he's thinner and looks better. Anyway Dougie is gone already. I guess he didn't have a soul or spiritual version or anything.
shareWhy would transplanting original Cooper's soul into Dougie's body make him lose weight?
shareCooper isn't inside Dougie. Dougie is gone-gone. Cooper is just back. He didn't go back to his old body and kick out Bob. The arm and Philippe and everyone else shoved Cooper's doppelganger or soul or whatever is in the waiting room back into the real world and it was able to take a physical form but it normally wouldn't of worked. There was just one slim moment of opportunity for them to take out Dougie and replace him with the original Cooper spiritual version.
shareThen why does Dougie's wife recognize Dougie's body?
shareDougie's wife recognises Dougie's body AND FACE because Dougie looked like Cooper. Remember he had been missing 3 days, and she probably thought he had cut and dyed his hair, lost weight and bought an nice suit. She probably thought he had been having it off with someone else, so he tried to look 'nice'. Of course, when she realised he had won all that money in the Casino, she probably thought he had faked his looks in order to fool the people they owed money to.
shareIf people could lose that much weight in 3 days... The Biggest Loser would be a very different show.
Are you all saying that BOB somehow created Dougie during the twenty five years in preparation for this day?... or that he groomed someone that looked very similar to Cooper?
The Man with One Arm said told Dougie 'you were manufactured', but I don't know who manufactured him. Was it Bob, or was it Mike or someone else?
The thing is, can a manufactured 'doppelganger' have a child? Because I assume Dougie's kid is his, right?
If Dougie had been groomed.....what did TMWOA say 'you were manufactured'?🤔
Yes I heard the word manufactured but none of the rules make any sense at this point so maybe it's just too early to speculate. How do you make a 50+ year old body in 25 years? If he has the power to make a human of any age that matches a particular person... what are the limits of his power? Why does he want to kill these specific people? Were any motives established in the original series? How many has he killed in 25 years since?
shareYeah, it's definitely too early to speculate. I suspect though that many MANY people have been killed by Bob.
shareIn regards to his hair, Dougie had long gray hair. It's not as if it isn't impossible to cut and dye your hair. As for the weight loss, she only noticed when she was dressing him. What I didn't understand was why the heck she was bothering to dress him for work. Cooper is very clearly acting like he has amnesia or that he's been in a traumatic accident. He can't go to work! He couldn't even go to the bathroom by himself. So, I think Jane-Y (that's her name) is overall not very attentive or observant. She's probably just ecstatic about the money and doesn't care much otherwise. Dougie seemed like a really normal guy, but maybe he had lots of weird mannerisms because he was not even a real person. Maybe he went on a lot of benders and she was sort of use to that kind of thing.
And yes. Bob knew the Black Lodge or Pierre or someone was going to force him to return. He wants to be alive. He knew they were going to try to grab him one day, so he made Dougie with this weird magic to be his scapegoat and it worked with whatever with whatever weird magic-science they use.
I don't know... he looked like he was swimming in that suit. (By the way... I'm not trying to argue with you... I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what's happening on the show) Even if you fasted and ran all day on a treadmill, it would be difficult to shrink that much in three days.
You could see the hooker overlooking his strange behavior... but his wife's reaction made no sense. I simply suspended my belief the way I have the entire show... knowing it's partly a parody of absurd soap opera tropes. Nothing Dougie has done since he was found with the chunk of barf has made any sense. It's been very entertaining and comical but has no basis in reality or any conventional notions of logic.
So far no one's mentioned his hair or his weight loss or even really seemed concerned that he can barely speak English at this point. He's really out of commission but his coworker didn't notice, the casino boss didn't really mention it, and Janie-Y isn't picking up on it either. They just work through the broken English and help him along despite not really even wanting too . You would think that either the escort or someone at the casino would of least speculated that he could of been using drugs or his wife would of asked if he'd been in an accident. He's basically handicapped. Janie-Y had to take him to the bathroom and she still dressed him for work. So, Mike/the arm/the lodge helped him win all that money and escape being shot, so they must be doing this too.
In the Lynch universe there seem to be two kinds of people; those who get it and those who just don't. Janie-Y is a "normal" person who never noticed her husband was a manufactured being who had no soul. Vegas is commercial and shallow and all about money and it's in the desert. Twin Peaks is mom and pop and profound and simple and it's in the woods. But Janie-Y could be so into her own head she doesn't notice much else in general. Maybe the world of Vegas and the people there are just easier to control in general. The only person who picked up on anything so far was the junkie saying 1-1-9.
All the characters who encounter "Dougie" have to say his name countless times... even people who are meeting him for the first time.
shareI think the escort told the hotel employees that she thought he might be having a stroke.
Everything at the casino was done for pure comic effect... from his "Hello", to the casino owner handing a clearly impaired man a huge sack of money after he won 12 jackpots. This continued at home with Janie-Y's obliviousness.
Only disenfranchised people... junkies, prostitutes, children seem to have any comprehension of reality in this universe. Everyone else has their head up their asses.
gentrey - I agree with you. Cooper is the real 'Good Cooper.' Dougie was a manufactured doppelganger, and he shrank into a 'golden bead'. And inside the long haired Cooper is Bob, so that is the 'bad Cooper'. The Bad Cooper's body was the original Cooper imo, but of course, it could be that the Bad Cooper was just the doppelganger who got to leave the Black Lodge by trapping the real Cooper inside. All a bit confusing, actually.
shareDougie's body went into the black lodge, and Cooper came out of the lodge with his body and clothes intact, and with everything but his shoes. But then if Cooper is in his own body, (living Dougie's life), what about the long haired, black-eyed Cooper body that Bob is still in? Cooper has two bodies now?
shareBasically, yes. Now there's two Coopers. Original Cooper (Bob) and New Cooper (Dale).
shareand one of them has to die
shareAre you sure that Cooper inhabited with Bob is the original Cooper? I thought he was a doppleganger, and the one left in the Black Lodge for 25 years is the original Cooper.
shareNot really but until Lynch gives us more information there's no way to know so it's just speculation. But the thing is, Dougie was a simulacrum. So Bob took the time to make him once he looked like Cooper. And we know Bob can possess people because he possessed Leeland Palmer. The doppelganger concept is more like, Cooper is actually in the lodge now but he also exists on earth at the same time and that applies to everyone in the lodges (I suppose even corpses). The way I look at it is that because the lodge people want Bob back, they are helping Cooper. So Cooper's spiritual manifestation was given it's own physical manifestation with the help of the arm and those women in the mauve room.
shareOkay, but are we sure that Cooper is still in the black lodge? I don't remember seeing him there ever since he appeared in the real world. If this is the case, we have 4 Coopers, not 3:
1. doppleganger inhabited by Bob
2. Dougie the simulacrum
3. real Cooper in black lodge
4. Cooper's spiritual manifestation that was given physical manifestation in the real world.
That's even more complicated, and here I thought it couldn't get more complicated than already is lol.
I don't think he is in there anymore and Dougie is also gone now because he was destroyed when he went to the lodge. So I think there are only two. Cooper was the doppelganger of Cooper possessed by Bob. So that's all sorted in my opinion.
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Simulacrum? Wow! What a great new word I learned today! Thanks, gentey!
😎
This makes sense, they said to Dougie "you were manufactured for a purpose and that has been fulfilled", but they must have made Dougie a long time ago since he had a wife and child.
So Cooper got out of the black lodge and Dougie went in, but Bob is still out, in Cooper's real body.
Also at the same time that Dougie was barfing and getting sucked into the black lodge, the Bob-Cooper was also barfing , like was the lodge trying to suck HIM in, and he somehow deflected it to Dougie. But then Bob-Cooper had a car accident and is somehow emanating toxic fumes that make everyone barf? So he did manage to stay in the world, but he had some side effect damage from the lodge attempting to suck him in.
I'm pretty dumb when it comes to this show, but I understood it as Bob created him to act as something of a smoke screen of sorts. I guess you could then ask, why didn't he just keep doing this over and over? So, I don't know, maybe it is a plot point of convenience or their was someone that happened to look a whole lot like Cooper that Bob was able to control or use.
Both Dougie and Bob threw up and we never saw what Bob looked like after the accident (if I remember correctly, we just see the cops go up to the car and back away from the smell) so it's possible by throwing up they exorcised something out of themselves. Bob from Cooper, and Dougie from himself so he could then be a shell for the actual Cooper to jump into? I don't know, I suppose that's pure conjecture. That whole addition to the story kinda threw me, hah! Everything and anything feels like a guess with this show.
I'm sure someone else could speculate on it a lot better.
They have the mirror shot... which in the past showed the divide between Bob and Cooper... Bob inside the mirror... Cooper outside. But when Dougie looked at himself, he still looked like Cooper. This is why I'd guess he does look like Cooper... but it doesn't make sense how he would... unless Bob sought out an exact Doppleganger who happened to live in Vegas that was slightly fatter and had horrible taste in clothes.
shareI joked that he looked like a 70s porn director, haha, yeesh. But, isn't there a real thing that states there are something like 5 other people in the world who look like you? So, I suppose you could stretch it and just say it falls under that, but...it is still a stretch.
Unless we get some other kind of clarification I don't know how else to explain it other than what we're both circling around.
http://www.thewrap.com/twin-peaks-dale-cooper-dougie-jones-doppelganger/
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/twin-peaks-season-1-easter-eggs-episode-1-2-3-4
Nice finds, thanks!
shareHere's this one too: http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/twin-peaks-the-return-episode-3-recap-review/
shareThanks!
shareThe impression I got was that maybe the first one to vomit would get pulled back into the Black Lodge, which was why the evil doppelganger tried to hold it in as long as he could. It showed the decoy throw up first and he's the one who got taken.
shareIn the black lodge MIKE says something along the lines of "he was a creation, youve been tricked, one of you must die", also bad cooper says that he is supposed to go to the black lodge but has a plan. Add to that the hit men in vegas looking for dougie it suggests that evil cooper somehow made a second doppleganger (dougie), put BOB's ring on him so that Cooper would trade places with Dougie, not evil cooper, and then get killed by the hit men so there wouldnt be 2 versions of cooper in real life and he could stay and not return to the black lodge. But he avoided the hitmen and now one of the versions has to go.
shareThis is a good explanation. What still puzzles me is when exactly did good Cooper lose his mind and why. Did the shock because of contact with real world after 25 years have that effect on good Cooper, or did it happen when he went through the electrical socket and part of his mind became scrambled in the process?
shareDUGE LV
shareI'm not a fan of the Dougie character. i think it's kind of stupid.
shareWhat do you think of Wally Brando?
shareI think it went on too long. I general I thought it was amusing if it was a 1/3 of the time.
I though Lucy having here chair fly back was a bit over the top as well. Lucy seems much more comical this time around imo.
Wally Brando was amazing... Better to see more of him than meandering night shots of the forest.
shareFair enough, but (I'm pretty sure that) it was supposed to go on "too long" and the other thing was supposed to be over the top.
shareI liked Wally Brando but agree that it went on too long.
It went on for the perfect amount of time. It was fun to watch the sheriff stand there trying to show patience with the absurd Wally and his ridiculous ramblings, as his beaming parents proudly looked on. I hope Wally shows up to "pay his respects" many more times over the next 14 episodes. 'Twas one of the funniest TV moments of the year.
shareI don't know 'many more times' but at least a couple would do. lol
shareI think he's the iteration of Cooper in Reality Number 3. We know there are at least 15 realities according to the portal looking thing. Also think the long-haired Dale Cooper in jail isnt the sane one as the long-haired Cooper in the accident. Which is why he was acting weird behind that window. If you're in the wrong dimension, you're gonna act weird. There's been a Dale Cooper Exchange going on!
shareI think the long haired Cooper in jail is the same as the accident, but he vomited up the creamed corn (garbonzola) which is what was fueling him. it's the physical embodiment of sorrow and pain. So he acts different once it has left his body.
shareOoh. And icky, too.
shareMy son just sent me a link to great Vanity Fair article that mentions the "garmonbozia," a word, as you say, meaning "sorrow and pain" (coined by Mr. Lynch). Also lots of other goodies: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/twin-peaks-season-1-easter-eggs-episode-1-2-3-4
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