It just seemed really weird to me, like the little kids where being brainwashed into a cult or religion. Do you really do that in US schools and what happens if the kid doesn't want to participate, is it mandatory?
shareIt is not mandatory but people get angry if you don't stand up and recite it like a good little American. Same with the national anthem at sporting events. It is 100% indoctrination.
shareIt is 100% indoctrination.
I still don't see what's so awful about the pledge of allegiance.
I pledge allegiance - allegiance to your country is a basic element of citizenship in every nation.
to the flag of the United States of America - not to a monarch or a leader.
and to the Republic for which it stands - a system of government. Perhaps could be improved with a reference to the Constitution, but that's implicit.
one nation - I don't know what the objection would be here.
under God - wasn't in there until the '50s. If anybody could gin up a procedural basis to bring a suit (and cared enough to pay for it), it probably wouldn't pass constitutional muster nowadays.
indivisible - also wasn't in there until later. Basically a slap in the face to what's left of pro-Confederacy sympathizers. Perhaps an issue in rural Mississippi, but if so maybe it should be.
with liberty and justice for all - is somebody against that? Okay ... and willing to admit that they are?
The notion that group recital of principles is something to do is, I suppose, hilariously passe nowadays.
The salute is an amusing bit of history. There's nothing inherently fascist about that salute. Until Hitler and Mussolini ruined it, it was just a salute. Hitler ruined a bunch of things (like the name Adolf) and kind of put a question mark next to some others (Wagner, Volkswagen, being German), but that's just how it goes.
I still don't see what's so awful about the pledge of allegiance.
Incidentally, under US law, people can't actually be forced to say the pledge of allegiance.
I still don't see why repeating something non-objectionable is objectionable. It's something people do pretty often, in different contexts: sing the national anthem, most relevantly. Or say the Nicene Creed, the Lord's Prayer or whatever the equivalent is in some other religion (which, obviously, you can't be forced or even encouraged to do by the government in the US, though you can in other countries).
If North Korea did it (for all I know, they do), I'm almost certain it would actually be, "I pledge allegiance to Kim Jong-un." But if they pledged allegiance to the flag of North Korea and similar unobjectionable things, I wouldn't find it creepy or totalitarian, any more than I find the fact they have speed limits on their roads (I assume) creepy and totalitarian.
IMO, there's no reason why private citizens should even have to possess allegiance
I still don't see why repeating something non-objectionable is objectionable. It's something people do pretty often, in different contexts: sing the national anthem, most relevantly. Or say the Nicene Creed, the Lord's Prayer or whatever the equivalent is in some other religion
If you're denying that people (including non-citizens, sometimes) have any duties to the government, you're either a full-on anarchist or not understanding the question.
Among other things, I'm fairly certain that just about every country will do something if you you don't follow its laws, or don't pay your taxes or (in quite a few, at least sometimes) fail to appear for military service when you're drafted.
There's nothing awful about the pledge of allegiance.
It is worth noting, however, that it was not written until the late 19th century. Somehow the founding fathers must have believed it was unnecessary to make that kind of spoken pledge. They assumed that if you were a citizen of the United States, your allegiance would be to your country.
Adding "under God" was an overreaction to communism. Some believed it necessary to make sure we separated "Godless communists" from the "God fearing USA." The problem with that is that we're not a theocracy. (Yes, I'm aware of mentions to "divine providence" and "Nature's God" in the Declaration, etc. That does not make us a theocracy or belief in God would be a requirement of US citizens.) "In God we trust" was not originally on US money either. In the mid 50s, shortly after the addition of "under God" to the pledge, it became mandatory to put "in God we trust" on all US money.
Is this a First Amendment issue? Probably because not everyone believes in God and the founders made it quite clear that the US Government was not going to be involved in religion. Requiring US citizens to swear that the USA is a nation "under God" separates non-believers from believers. We're supposed to be "indivisible."
You have to do that in 2015, REALLY?
I thought it was a Cold War thing! Poor kids.
That scene was pretty scary.
Please excuse my terrible redaction, english is not my native language
Well, unfortunately this was a movie of real events coated in Spielberg syrup.
It was also IMHO Hanks' weakest performance for a while. Like he was on autopilot.
Mark Rylance was the standout.
The movie was set in the late 50s, eatly 60s. Of course this happened.
Less and less today I'd imagine
All students are required to say the pledge every day in school, at least in public schools and most private schools. But if you don't say the words they don't care took much, although kids that age just do it because they think they are supposed to.
shareStudents are not required to say the Pledge. And many schools don't do at all. My kids are 20, 23 and 26 and never had to.
shareStudents are not required to say the Pledge. And many schools don't do at all. My kids are 20, 23 and 26 and never had to.
I, too, attended elementary school in the 60s, high school class of '76. We said it every day, too, but that was 50 years ago, things change. I'm sure there are things that they do that seem strange to us. Like not spending most of their tax money on the military because there's another country picking up the tab for their defense.
shareJehovah's Witnesses court cases had great impact in making these changes happen
shareIn the 60's and 70's the few JW's I had in class, stood up but didn't say the pledge of allegiance. The teachers did not ask them to say it. In the mid 80's, a JW told me that they "are not of this world", and I didn't ask any more questions.
shareI'm sure there are things that they do that seem strange to us. Like not spending most of their tax money on the military
Imagine all those socialist countries if they had to support an actual military. No more free health care, no more Augusts off, no more months of maternity leave, etc., etc., etc. But, if we down sized our military, where would all those soldiers go? We wouldn't need all the hardware, so what would happen to all the suppliers? And then there'd be the ripple effect from all those layoffs. The military is the biggest welfare program in the country.
shareImagine all those socialist countries if they had to support an actual military.
But, if we down sized our military, where would all those soldiers go? We wouldn't need all the hardware, so what would happen to all the suppliers? And then there'd be the ripple effect from all those layoffs. The military is the biggest welfare program in the country.
And how did the UK do it? With lots and lots of money and aid from the US. Just like during the war. It took them 50 years to pay off all the loans.
But how many of those 4.3 million were in the service before the war? Most of the soldiers of WWII were something other than a soldier before the war, so they most likely returned to their old jobs or one of the many jobs created to rebuild the country. The vast majority of the current US military has been nothing but a soldier.
And how did the UK do it? With lots and lots of money and aid from the US. Just like during the war. It took them 50 years to pay off all the loans.
But how many of those 4.3 million were in the service before the war? Most of the soldiers of WWII were something other than a soldier before the war, so they most likely returned to their old jobs or one of the many jobs created to rebuild the country. The vast majority of the current US military has been nothing but a soldier.
I realize you expect free stuff, but you really expected the US to just give you all that money, machinery, materials and food for nothing? We were also supplying the Soviets, as well as taking on the Japanes pretty much all by ourselves after the Brits got their arse handed to them. And tell us, why should the US have gotten in the middle of yet another European piśśing match? Every 20 years there seemed to be another one. I love how someone getting the snot beat out of them complains about the one who bailed them out. If your grandparents are still around, ask them what it was like before the Yanks came over. I know, because my wife's family had relations over there and I've read the letters they sent. Instead of complaining, you should get on your knees, like the country was in '42, and thank whatever god you pray to that the US got involved, otherwise you'd be speaking German, at best, but probably Russian. Oh, and you're welcome for protecting you during the Cold War, too.
And we spend that much on ouf militery because the world expects us to be world's cop. Oh, they hate us, all right, right up until they get punched in the nose, then they complain we didn't get there soon enough. So you can take you righteous indignation and the socialist programs the US military's presence affords you and bloody well sod off. Cheers!
LOL Normally I'd expect this level of stupidity to be a troll, but it's widely known some Americans really are this delusional. I don't blame you though, you are simply victims of your notoriously atrocious 'education' system and non-stop propaganda. It's sad that only after getting online do Americans begin to realise the indoctrination they suffer from, and how the whole world has been laughing at your stupendous ignorance for 200 years.
but you really expected the US to just give you all that money, machinery, materials and food for nothing?
Instead of complaining, you should get on your knees, like the country was in '42, and thank whatever god you pray to that the US got involved
otherwise you'd be speaking German, at best, but probably Russian.
And we spend that much on ouf militery because the world expects us to be world's cop
So you can take you righteous indignation and the socialist programs the US military's presence affords you
ah no dummy.
pretty soon you retarded english twats will be reciting the isis pledge of allegiance and yelling allahu akbar as you decapitate one another, but you are an unaware, apathetic communist putz so i bet you won't mind.
Americans will be fighting. english had already ceded control of their government, values, way of life long ago to the islamic vermin so that's why your women and girls are raped left and right.
pretty soon you retarded english twats will be reciting the isis pledge of allegiance and yelling allahu akbar as you decapitate one another
but you are an unaware, apathetic communist putz so i bet you won't mind. Americans will be fighting
Good to hear. It was just a waste of time. Kids don't know what it means and even if they did, they will not be in a position in which it would be relevant.
shareA lot better than the manipulation and brain washing that happens now days.
Sometimes a movie or tv show plot is so stupid that only the stupid can understand it.
Don't Americans get that the god bit is against their founding principles?
I take it Donald Trump did this every day at school but phoned in sick for Vietnam?
I'm not American but would guess that at the time the constitution was written everyone was a member of some form of religion and they never thought twice about swearing an oath to God.
Possibly a matter of perception but they probably saw it as a way to unify people. Something that happens no matter what really, you can unify people with anything, good or bad.
If Trump was born wealthy he was never at risk of being sent to war anyway, it doesn't surprise me that he dodged it. No matter what system you have there will always be people who contradict it and are hypocrites.
Sometimes a movie or tv show plot is so stupid that only the stupid can understand it.
I don't claim to be an expert on the American constitution but I think it mentions there being no state religion,it was meant to be about religious freedom so there should have been no mention of god.
I think the pledge of allegiance is quite a modern thing anyway?
The pledge itself started around 1887, they added under God in 1948 so fairly recent.
I guess the thing is with "Under God" they don't stipulate which God or which religion so it still fits in a round about way of religious freedom but it makes no allowance for non believers.
Some interesting information here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_.22under_God.22
Sometimes a movie or tv show plot is so stupid that only the stupid can understand it.
The phrase, "under god" was added to the Pledge in 1954.
shareDon't Americans get that the god bit is against their founding principles?
At one time it was thought that this right merely proscribed the preference of one Christian sect over another, but would not require equal respect for the conscience of the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Islam or Judaism. But when the underlying principle has been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all.share
I'm not sure what's so "brainwashy" about it. After all, it was originally written by a guy who was a socialist.
Citizens of a country are generally expected to acknowledge that they have an allegiance to it. The key element of the US Pledge - intended to draw a distinction with other countries - is that the allegiance isn't owed to a monarch, but to a symbol (the flag) and an abstract system of government (the republic for which the flag stands).
In order to become a naturalized British citizen, one is required to swear: "I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God."
Other miscellany that made it into the US Pledge of Allegiance:
- The "Under God" part. As discussed elsewhere, it probably wouldn't pass muster if someone figured out a way to get it in front of a court.
- "One nation ... indivisible," was clearly intended to contradict the principles espoused by the Confederacy.
- "With liberty and justice for all." I don't read that as a self-congratulatory statement of fact, but as a proscriptive statement of purpose. In other words, the pledge is reminding the people that the government is supposed to ensure liberty and justice for all. Again, it could be read as a slap in the face to the Confederacy. Basically, it's a very abbreviated version of the 14th Amendment.
Citizens of a country are generally expected to acknowledge that they have an allegiance to it
to become a naturalized British citizen, one is required to swear:
Non-naturalized British citizens do owe a duty of allegiance. The concept of allegiance is kind of basic to the notion of citizenship. Indeed, historically British law at one time (a fairly a long time ago, admittedly) provided that it was impossible to renounce allegiance. The last time the US and Britain fought a war (which, obviously, was even longer ago), that was one of the things that was at issue.
Not the same
Non-naturalized British citizens do owe a duty of allegiance.
The concept of allegiance is kind of basic to the notion of citizenship.
British citizens owe a duty of allegiance to the Queen.
i think you better look around you in the uk. i believe muslim fascists are raping your women, pushing around your citizens, outwardly expressing overthrow of your gov't, just recently one of your muslim fascist mayors say that their city's transit authority are full of white men and he wants to change it.. your country's plate is full my friend for you to be getting hung up on the US Pledge of Allegiance.
shareThe US may be a capitalist and democratic (really it's an oligarchy masquerading as a republic) market and government, but as a Canadian, who has more access to American news, media, and entertainment than Canadian content, I can tell you the USA has always been fascist in nature. Propaganda runs rampant, with pledges of allegiance, to seeing more American flags in one hour on US soil than I've seen Canadian flags in my whole life, to their propaganda machines that run the media, and their mantra that the USA is the best country in the world. As a Canadian when I read or watch the news about financial or political policies in my country, it's my biggest fear that we become more like the US; it's a terrifying prospect to see things slowly shifting towards US practices.
sharewhat is it about this movie that has brought out all the united states haters.as a Canadian navy vet I served during the cold war,if it wasn't for the us we would all be speaking Russian and not have any rights, and living in fear,its because of the west standing up to the ussr that you enjoy the right to bitch about the states.until you put on a uniform and stand up for the rights of people everywhere your just a posser and you are talking out of your ass.give it a rest,
I am not a US hater,but many here are.
I am British,and it is easy to be anti American without thinking about it due to the widely reported negative things about America,the gap between the rhetoric and the reality,the racism,the gun culture,Donald Trump....
But the ideal of America is a noble ideal and in real terms half of these US haters would move there to live if they had the chance.
But saying all this does not mean we are not allowed to be critical of our friend.
I like the US and I like this film but of course the USA was not perfect then or now,there were black GIs in the US army in Berlin,standing up for freedom but when they got home????