Season's finale: Why was Ellie so aloof the entire episode? - The Last of Us (2023) Discussion

[–] Mattc164 (619) 2 years ago

Because of her ordeal with David and his crew.

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[–] brux (14840) 2 years ago

Good questions, but the answer is in what she went through. Maybe call it post-traumatic-stress, or since it had just happened, traumatic stress.

The two are definitely out of sync at the very least.

Should Joel be helping Ellie to process what she had just gone through? Did he have any idea?

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[–] lolkatz (498) 2 years ago

I kind of feel that her behavior was more about Joel than about her ordeal. I mean, her entire life is an ordeal.

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[–] brux (14840) 2 years ago

I think her latest ordeal, almost being killed and eaten rises above anything else she might have faced before. Also, bear in mind that for however old she is she was taken care of like a daughter by someone, and them even more so protected when it was found out that she was immune to the fungus.

But, yeah, Joel character changed into an old mother hen. I don't know if this was in any way realistic or not since as a TV show they can manipulate the characters any way they want. Joel was creeping me out in the end of this last episode, but then again he was traumatized as well almost dying, and almost losing Ellie, and not being able to do anything about it.

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[–] lolkatz (498) 2 years ago

Well the only flashback we see in this episode is about Ellie being born. Then it cuts to her having that blank stare typical of the entire episode. If they wanted to make a point about her having PTSP because of that cannibal pastor-prick from the last episode, they would have flashed back to him.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

...do you need it spelled out to you?

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[–] lolkatz (498) 2 years ago

Merely hinted. But it wasn't.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

It was obvious to apparently everyone but you.

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[–] lolkatz (498) 2 years ago

You're being obtuse.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

I'm surprised this question even needed to be asked. She had shock over the David situation.

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[–] TerraFirma69 (2354) 2 years ago

I got the feeling it was supposed to be because after the events of the last episode she now felt more attached to him than ever, and because of that she had her guard up more than ever.

Her guard having moved over time from her initial smartass bravado to, in this episode, a quiet fear of the real possibility of losing him in one way or another. That sort of thing.

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[–] winslow (1318) 2 years ago

She was thinking of the people who died to get her to where she is today and put it all on herself, like survivor's guilt because she is immune and can help find the cure. Maybe if she knew sooner, she could have found a cure sooner and kept them from dying. At the end, she is still in the same place because they didn't succeed and she knows more people died. This is when she tells Joel what happened to Riley and how she blames herself. She doesn't know her purpose anymore and Joel tells her it is possible to find a new purpose.

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[–] Underdog_73 (770) 2 years ago

Um.... Maybe because she was almost raped and had to kill the potential rapist? Just a guess.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

And all the people she saw die horribly and stuff, and other threats to her life, that was just fine.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

The shit she experienced in E08 was easily the most direct, visceral threat to her so far

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

Zombies directly trying to rip her up are PDC (PRETTY. DAMN. CLOSE).

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

From humans specifically.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

Oh my god so? Both are trying to kill her!

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

Also she was also shown as someone disassociating after Episode 5 when Sam was shot in her face.

Attempted rape is a pretty horrific thing, and then she stabbed him repeatedly in a burning building. Are you honestly getting nitpicky about this?

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

This isn't a "nitpick." I don't understand why she is so depressed in that episode and that's a big part of the plot. I didn't see that behavior after Sam's death and his brother's suicide. I didn't see it after she was almost killed countless times. I imagine she witnessed her girlfriend's death. She seemed to be more concerned with beating her chest to show how tough she was in the cult episode than showing genuine fear. But then it goes away because of some damn giraffe.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

Everyone understood exactly why she was detached in that episode (not depressed). Other than you, apparently.

You did. At the end when they buried his backpack, but then we had a time skip.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

"You did. At the end when they buried his backpack, but then we had a time skip."

That episode is the EXACT reason I was confused by her behavior in the last episode. I figured as a detached person, she would not show that reaction, and appear to be 'fine.'

You: "Other than you, apparently."

This thread: "Season's finale: Why was Ellie so aloof the entire episode?"

Although I have my suspicions it was more social messaging nonsense.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

>That episode is the EXACT reason I was confused by her behavior in the last episode. I figured as a detached person, she would not show that reaction, and appear to be 'fine.'

She was detached at both the end of episode 5, and beginning of 9 - but we so more in 9. Do you also think everyone reacts identically to every event that happens to them in their life anyway?

>Although I have my suspicions it was more social messaging nonsense.

You think suggesting someone might be a bit traumatised after running into a group that first tried to chop her up to eat her, and then rape her is "social messaging nonsense"?

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

"You think suggesting someone might be a bit traumatised after running into a group that first tried to chop her up to eat her, and then rape her is "social messaging nonsense"?"

Yes, by portraying the 'me too' related stuff as being far more horrific than the previous events she experienced, along with the unintelligent chest beating that directly jeopardized her and Joel's life.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

I would argue being subject directly to deliberate human cruelty rather than a natural unthinking horror is psychologically more damaging.

But I find your mentality beyond absurd. I do wonder how you enjoy anything ever. According to you TV shows that portray the impact of attempted rape or rape are woke and just trying to socially engineer people.

Go watch TV series from the 60s and 70's and 80s. Clearly modern TV is too 'woke' for you.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

And I would argue that watching a person you love turn into an "unthinking horror" and probably being forced to kill their animated body is easily just as, if not more psychologically damaging. And then being shot at, watching Joel get stabbed and almost killed, shot off a horse all in this effed up world. And I would also imagine that if I were REALLY just that damn traumatized I wouldn't give two shits about that giraffe. I also wouldn't have to show off how "tough" I am and break the man's fingers when he literally states he will let me go and not kill Joel, which would not only kill me and my father figure friend, but destroy the fate of the world. But I have to look "tough" at all costs because I've learned nothing about survival.

"According to you TV shows that portray the impact of attempted rape or rape are woke and just trying to socially engineer people."

Yes, that is what I said, according to you.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

>And I would argue that watching a person you love turn into an "unthinking horror" and probably being forced to kill their animated body is easily just as, if not more psychologically damaging.

How do you know she didn't disassociate after that?

We didn't see it.

>And then being shot at, watching Joel get stabbed and almost killed, shot off a horse all in this effed up world. And I would also imagine that if I were REALLY just that damn traumatized I wouldn't give two shits about that giraffe.

By the way "traumatised" is a strong word. The show just showed it impacting her. She was also a bit morose after the giraffe pick-me-up until the smoke bomb, with Joel mostly initiating everything. And yes, all of the stuff with Joel being stabbed *and* being shot off of her horse contributed to it. That was all David's group too.

>I also wouldn't have to show off how "tough" I am and break the man's fingers when he literally states he will let me go and not kill Joel, which would not only kill me and my father figure friend, but destroy the fate of the world. But I have to look "tough" at all costs because I've learned nothing about survival.

Dude, did you really think David was being remotely sincere there lmao? He was being creepy as fuck and blatantly trying to groom her. The offer also wasn't to "let her go", but offer her to join his group.

>Yes, that is what I said, according to you.

That is exactly what you said.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

"How do you know she didn't disassociate after that?

We didn't see it."

Oh so she recovered? That's what is so wrong about episode 9. She's supposed to be traumatized in a way we haven't seen before yet it is a DIFFERENT SEASON when Joel starts asking what is wrong. So actually none of that trauma stuff makes sense to be coming from the rape looking at it that way.

"Dude, did you really think David was being remotely sincere there lmao? He was being creepy as fuck and blatantly trying to groom her. The offer also wasn't to "let her go", but offer her to join his group"

I did. Plenty of victims have literally escaped from rapist abductors by pretending to be their friend and asking very nicely to go see their family. And that is my recommendation if in that situation, be as nice to them as possible. She would be dead if not for plot armor by breaking his finger.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

>Oh so she recovered? That's what is so wrong about episode 9. She's supposed to be traumatized in a way we haven't seen before yet it is a DIFFERENT SEASON when Joel starts asking what is wrong. So actually none of that trauma stuff makes sense to be coming from the rape looking at it that way.

Sorry, are you saying that in real life people don't ever recover from experiencing something traumatic? We already heard how the death of her friend impacted her when she refused to talk about her first kill to Joel.

>I did. Plenty of victims have literally escaped from rapist abductors by pretending to be their friend and asking very nicely to go see their family. And that is my recommendation if in that situation, be as nice to them as possible. She would be dead if not for plot armor by breaking his finger.

Right, and she instead chose a different route because David was obviously full of shit. She's a 15 year old girl. They don't think in completely logically perfect ways.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

"Sorry, are you saying that in real life people don't ever recover from experiencing something traumatic?"

Sure, in a world that is nice, but this one? This world is relentless garbage.

"Right, and she instead chose a different route because David was obviously full of shit. She's a 15 year old girl. They don't think in completely logically perfect ways."

He already saved her once. I just can't believe someone who is supposed to be at least somewhat intelligent would not at least cooperate with him long enough to save Joel and escape. It seemed to me to be an obvious choice for any reasonable person.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

>Sure, in a world that is nice, but this one? This world is relentless garbage.

Okay, so you're saying that you expect Ellie and Joel to be permanently traumatised and hardly able to basically socially function at all?

>He already saved her once. I just can't believe someone who is supposed to be at least somewhat intelligent would not at least cooperate with him long enough to save Joel and escape. It seemed to me to be an obvious choice for any reasonable person.

Again, this is just complaining that a character did not act in a precisely logical way. It's beyond absurd. I get idiot balls as a trope in TV, but this is just being irrational.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

"Okay, so you're saying that you expect Ellie and Joel to be permanently traumatised and hardly able to basically socially function at all?"

I would not expect her to change from the way I've seen her before. What you call "disassociation." She didn't want to dwell on anything that happened with her innocent deaf friend. She just moved on swiftly from something that heartbreaking. So I establish that as who she is. So when this changes, I need a good reason.

And again, I felt they wanted to make the cult more traumatizing, because it's what we the audience remember, but they are in a different season, and Joel is asking what is wrong, so that can't be it. So now I think they, again, want to keep things somber post-rape, but still made her inexplicably traumatized in a way we haven't seen her before.

"I get idiot balls as a trope in TV, but this is just being irrational."

That trope is what this is, but again, she HAD to be that way because of the subject matter, for reasons I explained.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

>I would not expect her to change from the way I've seen her before. What you call "disassociation." She didn't want to dwell on anything that happened with her innocent deaf friend.

We had a 3 month time jump straight after that. So you do not know this at all.

Also I'd propose her situation with Joel and David's rapist group was worse than Sam and Henry, if we're comparing.

>And again, I felt they wanted to make the cult more traumatizing, because it's what we the audience remember, but they are in a different season, and Joel is asking what is wrong, so that can't be it. So now I think they, again, want to keep things somber post-rape, but still made her inexplicably traumatized in a way we haven't seen her before.

Or, rather, seen *on camera*.

>That trope is what this is, but again, she HAD to be that way because of the subject matter, for reasons I explained.

No reason to believe your comical reactionary conspiracy theory.

Again, go watch old American TV shows. Obviously new content is too woke for you.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

"We had a 3 month time jump straight after that. So you do not know this at all."

Did it say it was 3 months? Regardless, Joel asking her what's wrong and us having never seen her so quiet I just think tells the audience this is unusual behavior. Since this show makes big time jumps without addressing how events developed it's important that the dialogue makes these connections. The script is meant to tell us things. But these writers are confused about their own time jumps.

"No reason to believe your comical reactionary conspiracy theory."

That's expected considering you are what you are. But no even semi-rational person breaks the finger of a person who has them in a cell with soldiers hunting their friend. It's a very out of place "feel-good" moment. You can't be so naive, with her announcing that a "girl" just broke HIS FING FINGER! You seriously don't see this for what it is?

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

>Did it say it was 3 months? Regardless, Joel asking her what's wrong and us having never seen her so quiet I just think tells the audience this is unusual behavior. Since this show makes big time jumps without addressing how events developed it's important that the dialogue makes these connections. The script is meant to tell us things. But these writers are confused about their own time jumps.

Yes, it literally did. They had been 3 months in the wilderness before finding Joel's brothers settlement.

And yes, we had seen moments of her being quiet or morose. You not paying attention to the show is not an indignment on it.

>That's expected considering you are what you are. But no even semi-rational person breaks the finger of a person who has them in a cell with soldiers hunting their friend. It's a very out of place "feel-good" moment. You can't be so naive, with her announcing that a "girl" just broke HIS FING FINGER! You seriously don't see this for what it is?

We're not talking about Ellie's reaction there, but your bizarre socially reactionary conspiracy theory about the whole thing being purely there to try and 'socially engineer' people against attempted rape, or something. You sound like Dennis Prager who recently claimed that only recently is rape viewed as it is.

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[–] emori (3681) 2 years ago

I couldnt understand it too. But then decided that she knew their fun trip was getting to its closure. As they were approaching facility and she knew she would go there and doctors will experiment on her blood and Joel would fulfill his mission and go on his own. Ans she would never see him again. And thats why she was sad.

And when she woke up in a car - she knew something happened and Joel probably killed those people. And maybe in her subconsciousness she started to understand that Joel might be psycho killer machine and is dangerous. I mean he warned her all the time that he killed a lot of people and they werent always bad.

And Joel... well... he finally went full psycho maniac like in the movies and embraced her as replacement of his dead daughter. He accepted that Sara is dead and he has to let it go as he has now new daughter he must protect.

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[–] lolkatz (498) 2 years ago

I also had a similar feeling. Joel in this last episode was WEIRD. Not so much because of the killings (he's done it before), but because of him changing his disposition, going full mother hen on Ellie. I somehow think that something doesn't feel right for her. It's even more pronounced in post-hospital scenes.

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[–] emori (3681) 2 years ago

Its like he was finally imprinted on her. Like that Jacob guy from Twilight :)

He kept holding distance because he didnt wanted to attach himself to anyone and not feel pain of losing that person. Then Tess died. Then he kept trying to treat Ellie as a cargo he needs to deliver. But when she was kidnapped and he could never see her again he finally lost it and went full killing mode to get her back. And admitted himself that he cares about her like she is his new daughter.

It was creepy actually :) The way he looked like obsessed maniac from the tv shows about stalkers. Even Ellie was shocked by this.

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[–] Naptown317Native (524) 2 years ago

Bad writing. Questionable acting.

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[–] zeesha (1826) 2 years ago

You are right. This is not about previous episode.

Ellie was aloof because they were getting close to the hospital and she was preparing herself for the worst case scenario - to be sacrificed for making the vaccine. Deep down, both Joel and Ellie have foreseen it coming:

Joel: "...there is risk, we don't have to do this"
Ellie: "...I know you wanna protect me. You have. And when we are done, we will go wherever you want...the moon."

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[–] lolkatz (498) 2 years ago

Yes, but the fireflies were total A-holes. No matter how important an asset Ellie is, you can't put her to sleep so that *maybe* you could obtain cure from her body. They had to ask her first. In fact, had they asked her, she would probably sacrifice herself. However, it had to have been her decision and hers alone. But the Fireflies, and particularly the lip-filler lady were gravely unethical. Joel was right to waste them all.

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[–] gsmith9072 (454) 2 years ago

Yeah piling more bodies in a world where bodies are constantly piling, including rare doctors, that certainly is smart.

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[–] zeesha (1826) 2 years ago

You are not wrong about "the lip-filter lady" Marlene. From her first appearance, we get to know that she, as a leader, will strategically lie to hold secrets. Can we blame her?

Before Joel was forced to leave, Marlene told him that the surgery was for removing the cordyceps out from her and grow it in the lab. We, the viewers, know that this "magic cordyceps theory" does not add up: Ellie's mother did turn to zombie; Ellie's kiss didn't make Riley immune; Ellie's blood didn't save the little boy.

Although this ending is aligned with the game, I think it would make more sense if "killing Ellie" is just another Marlene's lie to cover up a even more horrifying fate that awaits Ellie-- The scientist real plan was to put her in a coma with intensive care, then keep extracting the "vaccine" from her brain until they can synthesize it. If they couldn't, then Ellie would spend the rest of her life in coma with a pipe plugged into her brain and become the live vaccine machine.

If keep that in mind, Joel's shooting rampage would also make more sense. And everyone would happy with the "lip-filter lady" getting what she deserves.

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