MovieChat Forums > Transformers: The Last Knight (2017) Discussion > Why can a franchise liek this make a bil...

Why can a franchise liek this make a billion, but the DCEU cant?


anyone care to explain this logic to me?

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I don't think that's a fair comparison, at least not at this stage of the game. Let's wait and see how the DCEU does after a few more movies that really tie the characters together.

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im comparing it to he first two transformers installemnts that made like 3 time their budget despite being garbage

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You're not doing a good enough job at establishing your anti-Bay status, chriso32394 (especially since Bay deserves all the hate in the world for his disgusting filmography). You need to show more intelligence, starting by spelling words correctly. You mispelled "like" and you didn't put the apostrophe in "can't".

You need to rewrite your post to establish that there's a difference between Bayformers and the DCEU (E.G. Bayformers is disgusting garbage, and the DCEU is a respectable and pleasantly complex franchise)....Otherwise, people on these boards who have never seen the DCEU won't understand your problem.

To answer your question, the 3rd Bayformers movie was technically LESS successful than the 2nd movie (which was NOT released in 3D) The 3rd movie was released in 3D, which increses the prices of the tickets, and it still failed to make as much money domestically as the 2nd movie. That means that the 3rd movie sold LESS tickets than the 2nd movie, even with the price boost by 3D tickets....And then the 4th movie was EVEN LESS SUCCESSFUL than the 3rd movie. It made less money, both domestically and worldwide....The only reason the 4th movie even reached a billion was because of China; by the time the 4th movie came out, Hollywood had expanded its number of cinemas in China, far more than the number of cinemas for the 3rd movie....This greater number of cinemas gave access to the 4th movie for millions of Chinese audiences who have never even heard of Michael Doofus Bay, let alone learn what a disgustingly offensive hack of a filmmaker he is.

The 5th movie's number of cinemas will not increase as much, and with most of the world knowing what a horrible filmmaker Michael Doofus Bay is by now (Bay's Ninja Turtles sequel failed embarrassingly to gross expected numbers)....So it's safe to assume this 5th will-be turd of a movie won't make anywhere near a billion.

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Simple - The DCEU doesn't generate better word of the mouth on opening release while Transformers manages to create a stronger division between general movie goers and professional film critics and where the audience has more of a role in the longevity of its financial run in theatres. It all boils down to expectations, really; Transformers doesn't exactly have a particularly high standard to live up to in the first place. The G1 cartoon was anything but the best written animated series produced in the 80's and hasn't aged very well. The franchise has always been looked at as a simple marketing strategy to sell a toy line with characters that are all basically action story archetypes and stereotypes who get into big brawls more than often.

The DCEU is a different story because they are competing against Marvel which has established a lucrative and widely appreciated cinematic universe in the last eight years that has been showcased on the big and small screen respectively, as well as coming off of the success of Christopher Nolan's highly successful Batman trilogy. In addition to both, Man of Steel and Batman V. Superman were not based on characters that have existed since the 1980's with a small stamp on pop culture - They were based on characters that have been around for almost a full century and set standard for what superheroes can and should aspire to be in culture and have gone through various iterations throughout the years. Expectations were going to be very high, and they were not met simply put.

Tone is another factor - Despite the trailers coming off as pretty serious by now its expected that something like Transformers isn't going to change anyone's life or try to set a new kind of standard for film but be over-the-top, absurdist popcorn fare with bright colors and loud noises. Man of Steel and BvS tried too hard to be deep and had moments of shock and awe that didn't sit well with that many people( Were many people clamoring for a subplot where Superman's Earth Mom is kidnapped, tortured, and has the word "witch" written on her forehead? No).

I believe you've been told this all before, why you haven't taken what others said before to heart and are asking this again is puzzling.

COOKIES AND MILK!-Ed

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i dont think people were asking to see ahlf a mans face burned off, or have someone be shot int he neck in TDK.

All im trying to do is figure out why a franchise like transformers which is clearly worse than the DCEU in every way, is able to surpass it at the BO.

Ill agree the DCEU has some bad s hit in it, but at least my brain doesnt melt while watching those movies. They simply disappoint. There not terrible enough where i literally have a physical reaction and nearly throw up. Yet they cant even crack a billion?

A billion comes form repeated viewings, so clearly your theory of people knowing its crap isnt exactly valid.

I would rather subject my kids to a long, 3 hour film where batman and superman fight then team up to fight a big monster, than to show him/her to a film that objectifies women, creates racial stereotypes and phrases i wouldn't want him/her using, a giant robot with a ballsack, a film that tries to explain why a grown man is boning a minor, and something that would probably make him sick

And the reason im asking again is before i got responses like, oh cuz its more fun without anyone logically giving me a real answer.

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i dont think people were asking to see ahlf a mans face burned off, or have someone be shot int he neck in TDK.

Dude, Two-Face is one of Batman's most iconic villains, everybody knew he'd have something bad happen to a side of his face and he'd go evil. And having a dark tone with shocking imagery is nothing new to the character of Batman and his almost century long history of source material. Its a different case with Superman and his cast of characters because most recognize him as the tonal opposite of the Batman character, and it wasn't like Superman was represented as such in BvS so the Martha Kent kidnapping reveal from Lex to Supes only added more grim to an already grim depiction of his part of the world.

All im trying to do is figure out why a franchise like transformers which is clearly worse than the DCEU in every way, is able to surpass it at the BO.

Critically, the first Transformers is better reviewed than all three entries in the DCEU thus far, and Dark of the Moon( the third installment of the series) is also better reviewed than BvS and Suicide Squad, audience scores are about equal or slightly more in the favor of the Transformers series. And again, look at previous point about general recognition of the franchises and the characters - Expectations are going to be higher for the DCEU than they were for Transformers. Transformers does not have nearly as big a stamp on popular culture as Superman and Batman have had respectively, or as much respect and appreciation. That, and Transformers capitalizes on the use of IMAX and 3D, while all DCEU films have been post converted to 3D and only used IMAX cameras in small spades on BvS.

Ill agree the DCEU has some bad s hit in it, but at least my brain doesnt melt while watching those movies. They simply disappoint. There not terrible enough where i literally have a physical reaction and nearly throw up. Yet they cant even crack a billion?

Again, expectations and franchise recognition, and especial use out of the 3D and IMAX formats with more truthful tonal representation in marketing. Alice in Wonderland made a billion worldwide, a lot of its push was the use of the 3D format, which was still new at the time.

A billion comes form repeated viewings, so clearly your theory of people knowing its crap isnt exactly valid.

When did I say people knew what they were watching was crap? I said they approached it as silly, over-the-top amusement which isn't necessarily a bad thing it's just the way that it is and for that its worth it served its purpose for them.

I would rather subject my kids to a long, 3 hour film where batman and superman fight then team up to fight a big monster, than to show him/her to a film that objectifies women, creates racial stereotypes and phrases i wouldn't want him/her using, a giant robot with a ballsack, a film that tries to explain why a grown man is boning a minor, and something that would probably make him sick

So you would rather subject your kids to a film where,
-Batman brands people, specifically a guy who is a convicted sexual predator and part of a sex traffic ring who( in the ultimate cut) gets ganged up and killed by a group of inmates with a sliver.
-Where Superman rarely smiles.
-Where Jimmy Olsen, one of Superman's most trusted friends, is shot in the head and killed.
-Where Batman has a nightmare about a bat monster who blows right out of his Mother's grave( Which is spilling out blood) and attacks him.
-Superman's Earth Mom is kidnapped, tortured ,and labeled as a "witch" on her forehead.
-Where Batman sees a vision of the future where the world has gone to hell, Superman is an evil dictator who's soldiers kill Bats' friends and who attempts to tear his own heart out of chest.
-Where part of D.C. is blown up and many are killed and injured.
-Where the titular characters fight each other not because of ideological differences like in Captain America Civil War but because they see they need to kill each other to ensure the survival of others before all the dots are presented( And not even in the finest of ways as far as screenwriting is concerned).
-Where Superman dies at the end and everybody is mourning his loss, especially Lois Lane who he was going to ask for her hand in marriage.

Yeah, you'd win Father of the year for SURE...

And the reason im asking again is before i got responses like, oh cuz its more fun without anyone logically giving me a real answer.

Was my answer "real" for you then?

COOKIES AND MILK!-Ed

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DCEU is a respectable and pleasantly complex franchise

Are you...Are you on some kind of funny, loopy substance or something?

The DCEU is anything but a "respectable" and "pleasantly complex franchise", all of the three entries to date have been met with mixed to outright negative reviews from professional film critics( Not at all dissimilar from what Bay's Transformers movies get) and they've not even produced a crowd pleasing film even close to the level of even the first Bay directed TF installment. As of this writing quite a large sum is nervous about Wonder Woman and Justice League, Justice League isn't being as hyped as say the first Avengers was back in 2011 and a lot are hoping Zack Snyder, the former DCEU shepherd, gets the boot and soon.

COOKIES AND MILK!-Ed

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Because Transformers are about the Transformers. I go see them because I want to see my guilt pleasure. My inner child does a happy dance. The movie plots aren't that great, but they have stories we understand and can follow... even if you don not like it. It's rich cars we can only see in the big screen. It's Transformers!

Besides, you can put Transformers into any situation.

DC movies doesn't know what it is doing with their properties. You can't shape these heroes into something else just because. We know who they are. See their TV shows, which are way better than the movies. They are not a copy of Marvel in any way. They stand on their own and they are good (Arrow was good).

Marvel knows want to do with their property. It is a tragedy really. What did the world know of iron man, black widow, thor, Hawkeye and Captain America compared with DC heroes? Yet Marvel gave us an overall good set of movies in the MCU. Captain America gave us the best superheroes movies to date (CW and WS). I mean, considering the politic *beep* that is going on, Captain America (which means USA) is being more loved than Batman AND Superman together.

You can't wait to have a depressed Superman with a father that tells him he should leave children die so that his secret is protected and expect us to like it. Superman/Supergirl saving children (and airplanes) are the stapple of the Kryptonians. These people mean hope. Chris Reeve Superman was it. Smallvile was it. Even Sups return embodied hope.

Now we just have "save Marta". No. Just no. I want my heroes. When they decide to give us Superheroes instead of psycotic humans with superpowers, then they will have praise.

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You can't really say "we know who these heroes are" with DC characters who have been rebooted multiple times over decades of comics and cartoons. Most people who watch movies or TV series based on DC comics have 2 or 3 versions of the characters that exists before they were born.

This is pretty much the case with Marvel too, but their characters are younger and they did not really reboot their comics outright.

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Easy answer.

Michael Bay has millions of fans in all countries.

The Internet is NOT the real world.

The Internet hates Avatar and Titanic(and I hate those 2 classics too) but in the real world, Avatar and Titanic are the biggest movies of all time.

People worldwide only want HUGE, MOST EXPENSIVE movies and NOSTALGIA. That's why Avatar, Titanic and Star Wars VII are the 3 biggest movies of all time. And I hate those 3 movies.

SIR RIDLEY SCOTT, SCOTT FREE PRODUCTIONS, THE CARTEL, WRAITHS OF THE BROKEN LAND, etc....

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Because Transformers is global, while DCEU is limited to American/comic-book audiences.



07/08/06... 786... the sentinel of Allah has arrived.

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I agree.

I think DRAGON BALL Z directed by Michael Bay could be JUST AS HUGE AND SUCCESSFUL.

DRAGON BALL Z has millions of fans in All Asia, Europe and Latin America.

SIR RIDLEY SCOTT, SCOTT FREE PRODUCTIONS, THE CARTEL, WRAITHS OF THE BROKEN LAND, etc....

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It relies a lot on nostalgia. Cartoons with giant robots were, depending on where you are from, more popular than the DC characters.

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Because while the Transformers sequels have been generally bad, the DCEU is awful and not even enjoyable to watch. It's bland and most of the characters are insults to the ones they're adapted from(looking at you Lex). The movies are messy, and so obviously rushing to try and compete with Marvel instead of letting things play out naturally. They'd be better off just rebooting it already and trying to do things a different way instead of being stuck with this "dark and edgy" tone they've claimed is what separates them from Marvel...though I'd argue Civil War/Winter Solider are farrr more adult than any of the three DCEU films.

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